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Hi guys,

I played warhammer 40k a looong time ago as a child (3rd edition, or so; it was back in the late 90s) and would like to get back into it.
Back then I played Ultramarines, but given that I was around 12 at the time, the models I painted then were not exactly pretty. So I thought I'd start afresh.

I would welcome any advice on my starting list of 500 pts Evil Sunz (I am sure there are many possible improvements):

HQ
Warboss [4 PL, 83pts]
Selections: Attack Squig, Brutal but Kunnin, Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, Warlord

Troops
Boyz [12 PL, -2CP, 240pts]
Selections: 'Ard Boyz, 3x Tankbusta Bombs
Boss Nob
Selections: Choppa, Slugga
29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Selections: 29x Choppa, 29x Slugga, 29x Stikkbombs

Elites
2 x Kommandos [3 PL, 45pts]
Selections: Tankbusta Bombs
Boss Nob
Selections: Choppa
4x Kommando
Selections: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Heavy Support
Deff Dread [6 PL, 85pts]
Selections: Big Shoota, Big Shoota, Dread Saw, Dread Saw



Core idea:
The list is based on my assumption that 30 Ork Boyz would be pretty good in a 500pts match, if I can get them into combat. Especially when I can later use the stratagem Unstoppable Green Tide on it. Seems pretty good to rebuy a third or more of my army. The whole list and strategy is based on that assumption.

Strategy:
To get the Ork Boyz into combat quickly, I took the Warboss to be able to advance and attack. Being Evil Sunz should help, too. As well as the fact that for 500pts the battlefield is not soo big.

I gave the Boyz the 'ard Boyz stratagem to protect them a bit better. I thought this would even improve Unstoppable Green Tide as the unit I get back is a little bit stronger that way.

I do not want my opponent to get all the victory points from controlling objective markers while the Boyz are busy attacking. So, the Deff Dread's job is to sit on an objective and be hard to kill.
I do not want heavy weapons killing my Deff Dread nor do I want blast weapons killing my Boyz, so I have the two Kommandos to infiltrate close to the opponents' heavy weapons and keep those occupied. Maybe they can also prevent my opponent from controlling an objective marker in some cases . All around, their job is to be as annoying as possible. I do not expect them to stay alive for long.

Questions:
What I would like to know the most is:

Are my core idea and strategy sound?

Following my strategy: Did I use the right tools for the job?

Any details I could change to make quick improvements?

How strong do you think this army would be, in general?

In general, I am pretty new and that will probably reflect in my list.
As a general benchmark what I hope to achieve is to have a better list than what I would get from "Start Collecting: Orks" + The Warboss and Nobs Box.

Welcome back!

First of all, some advertisement. Here is where you can find some general ork resources and where you can ask questions to other experienced ork players:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790345.page

That said, the basic idea behind your army is sound, but there some things I want to point out

- Your warboss should have the killa klaw relic. It turns him back into the monster that can kill anything you are used from old times.
- 'ard boyz is in general not considered to be good stratagem. The save does very little, and there are many other things you can do with 2CP that are much better.
- your deff dread does not have a kustom job. For just one CP you can upgrade it with your choice of +3 movement speed and re-rolling advances, -1 to hit against it or a ballistic skill of 4+. 500 point missions don't value holding objectives as much, so should be sending it forward to kill things.
- Big shootas aren't great guns at all. If possible replace them with more close combat weapons, rokkits or KMB.
- Kommandoz probably won't be doing too well at shutting down enemy big guns, but they are pretty good at grabbing objectives or scoring secondary missions. If you focus on keeping them alive as long as possible they might end up winning the game for you.
- You only have five units in total. I don't have a lot of experience with 500 pt missions, but this might not be enough. Maybe you should consider going with a few less boyz.

Building a 500 points list around 30 boyz + warboss could be ok BUT other than them you need some firepower, some mobile units and cheap objective holders. Mek gunz and solo koptas suit this list very well. Kommandos are also good but since you lack mobility consider koptas instead of them, they're better tarpitters/harassers against enemy shooty units.

If you really want the dread as objective holder give it a pair of KMBs and the Sparkly bitz kustom job. I'd also recommend to give him one klaw as having 3 attacks with the improved profile is worthy for only +5 points.

A big choppa, power klaw or killsaw (best option) for the nob leading boyz is also highly recommended.

Killa klaw for the warboss is the only relic worth taking for you list.

What about:

Warboss with killa klaw, kustom shoota
30 boyz, nob with killsaw
2 Smasha gunz
2 solo kopta, one with rokkits one with big shootas

Or:

Warboss with killa klaw, kustom shoota
30 boyz, nob with killsaw
Deff dread, 2 saws 2 KMB (kustom job sparkly bitz)
2 solo koptas with big shootas

Alternatively remove one boy, one kopta and add 5 kommandos.

Awesome! Thank you guys.

Great points from both of you.
I think my preference would be to go with the last alternative from Blackie:

Warboss with killa klaw, kustom shoota
29 boyz, nob with killsaw
Deff dread, 2 saws 2 KMB (kustom job sparkly bitz)
1 solo koptas with big shootas

I think that way, I follow both of your suggestions.


Two questions, though:
when I want a killa klaw do I always want 2 to get the extra attack?
What is so good about the KMB? Compared to the rokkit launcha I am trading 1 AP and 0.5 Wounds (on average) against the chance that the whole model dies if I roll a one. Is that really worth it?

The killa klaw is a relic, so you can have only one per army. You also don't get any additional attacks from weapons anymore unless the specifically say so (killsaws, for example).

As for the KMB, the additional AP is usually worth taking chances for a mortal wound. The self-inflicted damage rarely makes a difference in my experience.

thanks, Jidmah!
KMB it is then

I mixed up the names 'killa klaw' and 'killsaw'.
So, the question I should have asked was: Should I take the killsaw in pairs, or is one fine?

The pair is more effective, +5 points for an additional attack. But one is tipycally ok and the pair, while it's legal, isn't available outside conversions.