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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Ok, gw finally showed us the new Imperial Armour book. So what's your predictions for any changes to the current rules for Forge World units? Will we see anything big? Or will everything stay mostly the same with points updates? Are there any specific changes you want to see?

Personally I'm hoping for sane prices for the Legion LOWs and the loyalist drop pod rules for Dreadclaws and Kharybdis Assault Claws.
   
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Fargo, ND USA

My prediction is lots of disappointment from Guard, Eldar, Tau, Ork, and Badab War Chapter players.

I also expect DKoK to lose a lot of their flavor rules wise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/12 20:48:56


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Given we're looking at over 100 datasheets vanishing into the Warp, my hope is a reasonably prompt "Forge World Legends" PDF (or set of faction PDFs).

Outside of that?
- A reasonable review of the Contemptor and Leviathan (all versions) so they're not quite so close to auto-take for the factions who can
-Core rules changes from Codex books applied to FW units (such as Grinding Advance working on FW Russ variants)
- FW LOW getting a points review that leaves them usable, if not top-tier competitive

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I expect some lucky Tyranids to be copypasted with no relevant changes and all original typos from the previous Index.

The rest will be squatted (err, moved into Legends, or completely disappear without any comment).

GSC will still have absolutely nothing, not even the access to the Terrax drill or that token Arvus flyer (which would be reasonable and fluffy additions to the faction roster)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/13 07:51:29


 
   
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 Dysartes wrote:

- FW LOW getting a points review that leaves them usable, if not top-tier competitive


The Thunderhawk went from just under 700 in the codex a few editions ago, to over 1500 now. I have no hope it or other forgeworld stuff will be reasonably priced any time soon. The main gun is too good, and the whole model is even way more expensive than it is good. 1500 points. The thing costs more than FIVE land raiders.

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It'll be typical forgeworld crap. Some things will suck, some things will be bustedly OP as hell. Regardless the insanely skewed distribution of forgeworld kits will continue to help prop up marines as the best overall faction in the game, even if the codex is otherwise sensible.

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I was hoping (although not really expecting) for some Mechanicum rules. However, with 100+ datasheets banished to the warp - I think the chances are 0%.
   
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ERJAK wrote:
It'll be typical forgeworld crap. Some things will suck, some things will be bustedly OP as hell. Regardless the insanely skewed distribution of forgeworld kits will continue to help prop up marines as the best overall faction in the game, even if the codex is otherwise sensible.


Except this time it's the main studio writing the rules - and it sounds like they've had a reasonable lead time to do so, unlike the 8th ed books.

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 Dysartes wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
It'll be typical forgeworld crap. Some things will suck, some things will be bustedly OP as hell. Regardless the insanely skewed distribution of forgeworld kits will continue to help prop up marines as the best overall faction in the game, even if the codex is otherwise sensible.


Except this time it's the main studio writing the rules - and it sounds like they've had a reasonable lead time to do so, unlike the 8th ed books.


The mainteam that couldn't be bothered to fix for a whole Edition a command vox net in their faq?
That couldn't be bothered to seemingly Look at the models or covenants?
The Same that hiked prices for fw vehicles that were not primaris constantly?
Those guys?

Yeah no, Quality improvement is far from a given when they write it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/13 09:28:41


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 Daedalus81 wrote:

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Not Online!!! wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
It'll be typical forgeworld crap. Some things will suck, some things will be bustedly OP as hell. Regardless the insanely skewed distribution of forgeworld kits will continue to help prop up marines as the best overall faction in the game, even if the codex is otherwise sensible.


Except this time it's the main studio writing the rules - and it sounds like they've had a reasonable lead time to do so, unlike the 8th ed books.


The mainteam that couldn't be bothered to fix for a whole Edition a command vox net in their faq?
That couldn't be bothered to seemingly Look at the models or covenants?
The Same that hiked prices for fw vehicles that were not primaris constantly?
Those guys?

Yeah no, Quality improvement is far from a given when they write it.


The point being that if there are problems with the rules this time, ERJAK's claim of "typical forgeworld crap" falls apart, as they're not touching the rules this time.

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I just hope I don't lose more models for my Drukhari. We just have the Reaper and the Tantalus, but knowing that now the Reaper is playable... I guess they're going to nerf it



 
   
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 Dysartes wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
It'll be typical forgeworld crap. Some things will suck, some things will be bustedly OP as hell. Regardless the insanely skewed distribution of forgeworld kits will continue to help prop up marines as the best overall faction in the game, even if the codex is otherwise sensible.


Except this time it's the main studio writing the rules - and it sounds like they've had a reasonable lead time to do so, unlike the 8th ed books.


The mainteam that couldn't be bothered to fix for a whole Edition a command vox net in their faq?
That couldn't be bothered to seemingly Look at the models or covenants?
The Same that hiked prices for fw vehicles that were not primaris constantly?
Those guys?

Yeah no, Quality improvement is far from a given when they write it.


The point being that if there are problems with the rules this time, ERJAK's claim of "typical forgeworld crap" falls apart, as they're not touching the rules this time.


No but it will just in General be Crap , ruleswise that is, it will just be the gw Kind of pendulum crap ...
My point was however that no matter the Lead time , gw can't write themselves out of a wet Paper bag ruleswise half the time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Denegaar wrote:
I just hope I don't lose more models for my Drukhari. We just have the Reaper and the Tantalus, but knowing that now the Reaper is playable... I guess they're going to nerf it


To my knowledge you Lot only loose hq options though

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/13 09:41:22


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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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The main studio writing the FW rules is not necessarily an improvement imo. FWs rules overall are pretty good, they handle their specialist systems very well and they could even make the aweful 7th edition work somehow with 30K. Of course, the Indices were rushed and probably made over night and afterwards nobody cared about them. But if they're getting the GW treatment now? It'll probably mean losing loads of weapons that are not being sold (so basically... anything Chaos, as there are no butcher cannons, soulburners, helflamers or whatever).
But if that book is actually just a refining of the 8th edition indizes that could actually be a more sensible way than "GWing" the whole FW line, which would mean throwing out anything that would need a conversion. Who knows if Chaos gets access to 30K models at all this time?
   
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 Denegaar wrote:
I just hope I don't lose more models for my Drukhari. We just have the Reaper and the Tantalus, but knowing that now the Reaper is playable... I guess they're going to nerf it


I agree, the Reaper is pretty nice at the moment, I hope they don't ruin it. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it became Kabal only like the Ravager.

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 Platuan4th wrote:
My prediction is lots of disappointment from Guard, Eldar, Tau, Ork, and Badab War Chapter players.

I also expect DKoK to lose a lot of their flavor rules wise.


They already announced the warboss on warbike to be back, as long as they don't forget to add the datasheet, it will be hard to disappoint orks - none of the FW choices are particularly interesting or good.

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Updates to the weapons (i.e. damage on HB's going up, flamer ranges increasing).

Update to the points cost of useless weapons (why do custodes firepikes cost 15 points when the free bolter is better?)

Update to all vehicles to keep up with the firepower hikes, since they wont get touched for a while (i.e. +2-3 wounds on anything with 12+ wounds currently).


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I'm hoping for a complete rework of the Decimator. Make it scary, doesn't have to be broken. But for sure better then the current way over points garbage it is.

Arch daemons going to reasonable points cost, not fluffy numbers.

Blood slaughterer points way less or beefed up.

Dark Mechanicus rules.

Leave my Kytan alone, it's fine right where it is. Unless points go down.

Lord Zhufor rules rework.

This is what I want to see. I'd be happy with half of it.
   
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It would also be nice if they made the Malcador be a bit less bad. It does not have to be on par with the LR just... less punishing if you field him.

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Sgt. Cortez wrote:The main studio writing the FW rules is not necessarily an improvement imo. FWs rules overall are pretty good, they handle their specialist systems very well and they could even make the aweful 7th edition work somehow with 30K. Of course, the Indices were rushed and probably made over night and afterwards nobody cared about them. But if they're getting the GW treatment now? It'll probably mean losing loads of weapons that are not being sold (so basically... anything Chaos, as there are no butcher cannons, soulburners, helflamers or whatever).
But if that book is actually just a refining of the 8th edition indizes that could actually be a more sensible way than "GWing" the whole FW line, which would mean throwing out anything that would need a conversion. Who knows if Chaos gets access to 30K models at all this time?

I doubt even gw would be crazy enough to risk the avalanche of salt that would ensue if they removed large numbers of the fw chaos units. Even the loss of butcher cannons would be cause for revolt.

Eihnlazer wrote:Updates to the weapons (i.e. damage on HB's going up, flamer ranges increasing).

Update to the points cost of useless weapons (why do custodes firepikes cost 15 points when the free bolter is better?)

Update to all vehicles to keep up with the firepower hikes, since they wont get touched for a while (i.e. +2-3 wounds on anything with 12+ wounds currently).


They haven't even been updating the defensive stats for codex vehicles, so I don't think we'll see that. Although a decrease in prices would make many overpriced units less "squishy".
   
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Fargo, ND USA

 Jidmah wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
My prediction is lots of disappointment from Guard, Eldar, Tau, Ork, and Badab War Chapter players.

I also expect DKoK to lose a lot of their flavor rules wise.


They already announced the warboss on warbike to be back, as long as they don't forget to add the datasheet, it will be hard to disappoint orks - none of the FW choices are particularly interesting or good.


You mean that model that was always available and was only dropped from the MAIN Codex? I did in fact mean the other Ork datasheets, as the Chinoork has been a fairly popular mention on their Facebook pages.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/13 14:04:19


You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
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 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:The main studio writing the FW rules is not necessarily an improvement imo. FWs rules overall are pretty good, they handle their specialist systems very well and they could even make the aweful 7th edition work somehow with 30K. Of course, the Indices were rushed and probably made over night and afterwards nobody cared about them. But if they're getting the GW treatment now? It'll probably mean losing loads of weapons that are not being sold (so basically... anything Chaos, as there are no butcher cannons, soulburners, helflamers or whatever).
But if that book is actually just a refining of the 8th edition indizes that could actually be a more sensible way than "GWing" the whole FW line, which would mean throwing out anything that would need a conversion. Who knows if Chaos gets access to 30K models at all this time?

I doubt even gw would be crazy enough to risk the avalanche of salt that would ensue if they removed large numbers of the fw chaos units. Even the loss of butcher cannons would be cause for revolt.


Let's hope so. I'm still pretty sure they'll throw out things like the helforged predator (because as my Nightlords opponent usually says: Why would I ever take the Codex version when I can take that one? ), things that have direct competition/ overlap in the GW codex. Maybe we'll lose our Ferrum Infernus Dreadnoughts again, too, as one could argue the Helbrute covers them (and I think few/ none of the Chaos dreads are actually sold right now?).

But I also want to add something positive: I hope DG and TS get access to the Rapier batteries again. Excluding them from our list in 8th was very strange to begin with.
   
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 Platuan4th wrote:
You mean that model that was always available and was only dropped from the MAIN Codex? I did in fact mean the other Ork datasheets, as the Chinoork has been a fairly popular mention on their Facebook pages.

The chinork is popular because GW fethed up its points AND keywords, giving it ridiculous firepower for its price. It hasn't had a model for years now though, so I fully expect it to disappear, as do many other people.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/13 15:34:49


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Necrotitan to stay exactly as it was, because everything else getting more expensive made it pretty much perfect.

Arcanthrites/Tess Arks/Sentry Pylons to be minorly tuned in points.

Night Shroud to not be complete garbage would be nice.



I'd also quite like the Cerastus knights to get their Outflank and improved Advance rules back, make those chassis feel like the cavalry again, as currently they dont see play at their points (or get cheaper)




And then just a general plea for Marine vehicles to not be auto-include pay to win lumps of questionably detailed resin would be nice (unless you pay even more to win in your legion's custom sculpt)

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 Eihnlazer wrote:
Updates to the weapons (i.e. damage on HB's going up, flamer ranges increasing).

Update to the points cost of useless weapons (why do custodes firepikes cost 15 points when the free bolter is better?)

Update to all vehicles to keep up with the firepower hikes, since they wont get touched for a while (i.e. +2-3 wounds on anything with 12+ wounds currently).


I'd like to think there's just enough joined-up thinking in the Studio for the first one to be a given, and the second a reasonable hope.

#3 is a tricky one, as we've seen that SM vehicle defensive profiles don't seem to be changing, so anything whose chassis is common to a Codex vehicle will probably be unchanged. Having said that, it wouldn't be impossible that other chassis types might get tweaked.

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The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Dysartes wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
Updates to the weapons (i.e. damage on HB's going up, flamer ranges increasing).

Update to the points cost of useless weapons (why do custodes firepikes cost 15 points when the free bolter is better?)

Update to all vehicles to keep up with the firepower hikes, since they wont get touched for a while (i.e. +2-3 wounds on anything with 12+ wounds currently).


I'd like to think there's just enough joined-up thinking in the Studio for the first one to be a given, and the second a reasonable hope.

#3 is a tricky one, as we've seen that SM vehicle defensive profiles don't seem to be changing, so anything whose chassis is common to a Codex vehicle will probably be unchanged. Having said that, it wouldn't be impossible that other chassis types might get tweaked.

Non-codex chassis you say? So Fellblade chassis to T11?

Jokes aside, seeing as the T9 2+ defensive stat line is one of the few that can actually stand up to the new melta infantry units could there be more calls from players to make those units more affordable? Or will gw just nerf them even harder to avoid making those new meltas look less spectacular?
   
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Well over 100 datasheet are being dropped, so I expect the majority of those to be xenos based. Also new forgeworld primaris units will be added.


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Niiru wrote:
Well over 100 datasheet are being dropped, so I expect the majority of those to be xenos based. Also new forgeworld primaris units will be added.

Can someone say where this "100 dropped sheets" thing came from?

The only thing I saw on the article was that there was 190 sheets redone. (Or did someone just count the models on offer and work it out?)

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 IHateNids wrote:
Niiru wrote:
Well over 100 datasheet are being dropped, so I expect the majority of those to be xenos based. Also new forgeworld primaris units will be added.

Can someone say where this "100 dropped sheets" thing came from?

The only thing I saw on the article was that there was 190 sheets redone. (Or did someone just count the models on offer and work it out?)


Yeah, if you look in the thread in N&R, someone counted the number of entries - excluding R&H and Elysians - from the four FW Index books. The teaser video confirmed 191 datasheets, and the difference between what was in those books and 191 was over 100.

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I'd like to see Leviathan Dreadnoughts moved to the Lord of War category. They should also restrict its weapons loadouts lto have one melee arm and one shooty arm. Worsening its Invul to 5++ would also be a good move in my view.

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