40k 9th edition, : App released page 413

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**the_scotsman**

Oaka wrote:
Or the new Cut them Down stratagem, lol, I can't say that with a straight face.

The funniest part of that 4chan thread was the dude claiming that that stratagem was a "risk" of falling back.

Quality playtesters, GW XD

**tneva82**

Oaka wrote:
Well, I guess the Szeras rules do provide another example on why you would want to take large units, along the same vein as the stratagem efficiency already mentioned. I still think 6-model units are kinda boned, it's either 5 models or max size.

Except it just makes szeras bad since he relies on bad units

**Daedalus81**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

He costs 555 * 10 - 5500 + 80 points (that was my attempt at the obnoxious points listings people used to make). He costs 130 points.

That takes me back. Now we just need it in clan rats.

**IanVanCheese**

tneva82 wrote:
Oaka wrote:
Well, I guess the Szeras rules do provide another example on why you would want to take large units, along the same vein as the stratagem efficiency already mentioned. I still think 6-model units are kinda boned, it's either 5 models or max size.

Except it just makes szeras bad since he relies on bad units

Except we don't know if warriors will be bad in 9th. And Immortals were good to begin with, and he buffs them too.

**Daedalus81**

Latro_ wrote:
I'm pretty much in the camp of light inf looming pretty pointless at this point.

They can still screen yes, but MSU (5) units can actually screen wider if you take a couple of units of them.

Light infantry are basically from the looks of things the equivalent of when you set a board up adding lichen and odd barrels/tank traps - terrain that is there but you might as well not have it.

As ahs been said there have only been negatives for light infantry and any bonuses are shared by eliter models.

This is the MSU/mech/vehicles edition, its pretty obvious GW have taken 'too much' tournament feedback on board for quicker games

Yes, I agree MSU is king.

I can't wait to snipe characters when I have no snipers. Keep pushing this guys! It's working!

**the_scotsman**

Hopefully transport rules are improved (all you need is the ability to optionally disembark in the Reinforcement step if the transport did not advance, allowing the unit to exchange its normal movement for the transport's movement) and units like guardsmen, neophytes, ork boyz and sisters can maybe be fairly impactful as mechanized units like in 5-7th ed.

They'll shoot once and get instantly hosed off the board by an aggressor farting at them the next turn, but maybe they'll get to hold an objective and make a shooting attack first.

**Ghaz**

Grey Knights on today's Warhammer 40,000 Daily:

Tune in as we take a look forward to this weekend's Warhammer 40,000 Preview and talk about Grey Knights in the new edition.

**addnid**

I wonder how the GW staff will react when they will go see tournaments, and see with their own eyes what they have done...
Q
- "Hey guys, where has all the light infantry gone to ?"
A
- "Well, you did want a faster game didn't you ?"

- - > 30-50 models fight 30-50 models, on all tables. Photos of the game tables don't seem so good anymore now, do they ?

MSU will indeed be king, which come to think about it will NOT speed the game up at all

**Daedalus81**

Ghaz wrote:
Grey Knights on today's Warhammer 40,000 Daily:

Tune in as we take a look forward to this weekend's Warhammer 40,000 Preview and talk about Grey Knights in the new edition.

Ooooh. Gimme psychic phase info!

**the_scotsman**

addnid wrote:
I wonder how the GW staff will react when they will go see tournaments, and see with their own eyes what they have done...
Q
- "Hey guys, where has all the light infantry gone to ?"
A
- "Well, you did want a faster game didn't you ?"

- - > 30-50 models fight 30-50 models, on all tables. Photos of the game tables don't seem so good anymore now, do they ?

MSU will indeed be king, which come to think about it will NOT speed the game up at all

This is the company that released supplements that made some marine subfactions reach a 70% winrate after all. They'd probably wipe their brow and go "Phew, we had so many warehouses of so much primaris stuff, thank GOD every table in the LVO is a freshly bought commission speedpainted space marine army!"

**Daedalus81**

addnid wrote:

MSU will indeed be king, which come to think about it will NOT speed the game up at all

It won't. I'll bet nachos.

**ERJAK**

addnid wrote:
I wonder how the GW staff will react when they will go see tournaments, and see with their own eyes what they have done...
Q
- "Hey guys, where has all the light infantry gone to ?"
A
- "Well, you did want a faster game didn't you ?"

- - > 30-50 models fight 30-50 models, on all tables. Photos of the game tables don't seem so good anymore now, do they ?

MSU will indeed be king, which come to think about it will NOT speed the game up at all

Huge blobs of models look terrible on camera. Especially considering painting goes out the window on large units for a lot of people. There are a lot of legitimate complaints about light infantry getting hosed but boards looking pretty isn't one of them.

**the_scotsman**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Grey Knights on today's Warhammer 40,000 Daily:

Tune in as we take a look forward to this weekend's Warhammer 40,000 Preview and talk about Grey Knights in the new edition.

Ooooh. Gimme psychic phase info!

Sounds good to me. Wonder if there'll be any changes.

If not, probably we'll just hear about stuff like psychic-based secondary objectives in the new missions.

And hey did you know that dreadknights will be able to shoot in melee? Did you know, daed? Did you? Shoot! In melee! Can you imagine! here's the statline for a heavy psycannon.

**ClockworkZion**

the_scotsman wrote:
addnid wrote:
I wonder how the GW staff will react when they will go see tournaments, and see with their own eyes what they have done...
Q
- "Hey guys, where has all the light infantry gone to ?"
A
- "Well, you did want a faster game didn't you ?"

- - > 30-50 models fight 30-50 models, on all tables. Photos of the game tables don't seem so good anymore now, do they ?

MSU will indeed be king, which come to think about it will NOT speed the game up at all

This is the company that released supplements that made some marine subfactions reach a 70% winrate after all. They'd probably wipe their brow and go "Phew, we had so many warehouses of so much primaris stuff, thank GOD every table in the LVO is a freshly bought commission speedpainted space marine army!"

I highly doubt that was ever the intent. GW is in the businwss of aelling models and inciting that much potential churn into the hobby doesn't feel like good businesses sense.

**the_scotsman**

ERJAK wrote:
addnid wrote:
I wonder how the GW staff will react when they will go see tournaments, and see with their own eyes what they have done...
Q
- "Hey guys, where has all the light infantry gone to ?"
A
- "Well, you did want a faster game didn't you ?"

- - > 30-50 models fight 30-50 models, on all tables. Photos of the game tables don't seem so good anymore now, do they ?

MSU will indeed be king, which come to think about it will NOT speed the game up at all

Huge blobs of models look terrible on camera. Especially considering painting goes out the window on large units for a lot of people. There are a lot of legitimate complaints about light infantry getting hosed but boards looking pretty isn't one of them.

I know it seems like forever ago, but one of the main purposes of the 8th ed ruleset was to get infantry models actually on the table again, since for....pfff, five editions in a row? you basically popped out of a transport, shot once, and then got blasted off the table. Infantry squads were pretty decorations you set off on the side of the table while you moved your transports around.

8th ed doubled the cost of most transports, and made it so that you could no longer actually use the movement of the transport to make units faster. They wanted to get more models on the table.

**ClockworkZion**

Tune in as we take a look forward to this weekend's Warhammer 40,000 Preview and talk about Grey Knights in the new edition. Join us from 3:30pm (BST). https://bit.ly/2Vy3hKz

**Slayer-Fan123**

the_scotsman wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Grey Knights on today's Warhammer 40,000 Daily:

Tune in as we take a look forward to this weekend's Warhammer 40,000 Preview and talk about Grey Knights in the new edition.

Ooooh. Gimme psychic phase info!

Sounds good to me. Wonder if there'll be any changes.

If not, probably we'll just hear about stuff like psychic-based secondary objectives in the new missions.

And hey did you know that dreadknights will be able to shoot in melee? Did you know, daed? Did you? Shoot! In melee! Can you imagine! here's the statline for a heavy psycannon.

FWIW, being able to shoot the Incinerator in melee could show some potential for regular Fist Dreadknights for the cheapness.

**Daedalus81**

the_scotsman wrote:

If not, probably we'll just hear about stuff like psychic-based secondary objectives in the new missions.

Yea that seems likely.

And hey did you know that dreadknights will be able to shoot in melee? Did you know, daed? Did you? Shoot! In melee! Can you imagine! here's the statline for a heavy psycannon.

But what about stratagems that already exist? Will they ignore those?

**the_scotsman**

Daedalus81 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

If not, probably we'll just hear about stuff like psychic-based secondary objectives in the new missions.
Yea that seems likely.

And hey did you know that dreadknights will be able to shoot in melee? Did you know, daed? Did you? Shoot! In melee! Can you imagine! here's the statline for a heavy psycannon.

But what about stratagems that already exist? Will they ignore those?

No, but like with the GSC preview they will either inadvertently preview a new CP cost for those stratagems or they will get the cost wrong.

**ClockworkZion**

You know, I have to wonder it Smite will change.

**the_scotsman**

ClockworkZion wrote:
You know, I have to wonder it Smite will change.

If it were christmas, easter and my birthday all at once they'd preview new exciting rules for psychic powers that work via any mechanic but mortal wounds, but that's just dreaming I'm afraid.

**ClockworkZion**

the_scotsman wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
You know, I have to wonder it Smite will change.

If it were christmas, easter and my birthday all at once they'd preview new exciting rules for psychic powers that work via any mechanic but mortal wounds, but that's just dreaming I'm afraid.

I don't hate mortal wounds. They're a counter to invul saves and elite armies.

But morelevers beyond mortals would be good.

**addnid**

ERJAK wrote:
addnid wrote:
I wonder how the GW staff will react when they will go see tournaments, and see with their own eyes what they have done...
Q
- "Hey guys, where has all the light infantry gone to ?"
A
- "Well, you did want a faster game didn't you ?"

- - > 30-50 models fight 30-50 models, on all tables. Photos of the game tables don't seem so good anymore now, do they ?

MSU will indeed be king, which come to think about it will NOT speed the game up at all

Huge blobs of models look terrible on camera. Especially considering painting goes out the window on large units for a lot of people. There are a lot of legitimate complaints about light infantry getting hosed but boards looking pretty isn't one of them.

They look kind of "messy", granted, I think tournament pics look best when you see different stuff on different tables. Anyway this isn't very important. The important thing is that we will have loads of 30k fun in this 9th edition, won't we ?

**the_scotsman**

well, so far, so hilarious, someone who has played GK all throughout 8th edition is having to talk about how GREAT GK were in 8th.

**endlesswaltz123**

MSU's for marines will not work if there is a reliance on character auras still.

It will be too easy to snipe characters, potentially on the first turn, if not definitely the second unless you are sitting back with a castle and have the characters hidden by terrain, at which point you nuke the MSU's, deep strike/strategic reserve in and take the character out at a more preferable angle.

I think assumptions of how the game will play will be drastically different once the cause and effect synergy of all the other new rules are realised.

I'd be willing to guess the same will be for quite a lot of factions.

**Gremore**

endlesswaltz123 Has it right, I think we can nitpick at specific things in a vacuum compared to old versions of the game and they will look problematic, but all these things working together could be much better than the sum of its parts. I'm not trying to homer for GW rulestesters and assume they are infallible, we all know they get things wrong, but we can only guesstimate so much on how wrong those things will be right now.

**Daedalus81**

the_scotsman wrote:
well, so far, so hilarious, someone who has played GK all throughout 8th edition is having to talk about how GREAT GK were in 8th.

Karol is going to lose his mind on these power levels.

**RedNoak**

the_scotsman wrote:
RedNoak wrote:
Oaka wrote:
Well, I guess the Szeras rules do provide another example on why you would want to take large units, along the same vein as the stratagem efficiency already mentioned. I still think 6-model units are kinda boned, it's either 5 models or max size.

what magical strats did you ever used on large units before??? i can only think of two examples for orks... that would be autopass morale and kill the unit to bring em back full size

i cant really think of any strat that would be useful on chaff... but maybe its my limited perspective, i really would like to know

Well, I guess off the top of my head...

...several large units like guardian blobs, acolyte blobs, pink horror blobs, bloodletter blobs etc used limited deep strike strats + offensive strats when they arrived to guarantee they get their full firepower off on a target.

You also had some folks using fearless blobs of stuff like wyches conscripts prenerf and cultists that could very efficiently be made fearless or effectively fearless, but that was more defined by their being totally immune to morale and thus very durable than their effectiveness using stratagems.

You'd throw like VOTLW on cultists, but it was much more about the full reroll to hit from yabbadabbadon than the +1 to wound that made those strong.

deep strike... ok... thought you would use that on something idk... that can actually do damage or is worth protecting... the emporer bless the mighty fire power of guardians, acolytes pink horrors and blodletters xD

and no... +1 to hit even combined with +1 to wound doesnt make cultists great at shooting stuff they still only hit at 3+ and wound on 4+ with 0 ap, actually never saw someone use that on cultists

(well guardian bomb maybe... but that was a unusual tactic to begin with and hard to pull of)

**the_scotsman**

couple of power levels being bandied about

7pl for a strike squad
9pl for a vendread
14pl for a GMNDK
10pl for 3 Paladins

Funny comparisons when you look at the new eradicators, lol.

Say, would you rather have 6 assault mm shots or 5 basic duders with storm bolters? Lol.

EDIT: apparently these may not be the new power levels. These are taken off of the current app.

**Daedalus81**

the_scotsman wrote:
couple of power levels being bandied about

7pl for a strike squad
9pl for a vendread
14pl for a GMNDK
10pl for 3 Paladins

Funny comparisons when you look at the new eradicators, lol.

Say, would you rather have 6 assault mm shots or 5 basic duders with storm bolters? Lol.

EDIT: apparently these may not be the new power levels. These are taken off of the current app.

Yea that was weird. I want Stu back. He runs a much better show.