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Made in de
Boosting Black Templar Biker




So, today's WHC article announced terrain packs with datasheets. So far so not new. Then the article went ahead and said that people would bring their own terrain to matched play games in the future.
My first reaction was: they want to milk another line of models everyone has to bring and it's never going to stick with the community at large.
But is that right? Around here noone brings terrain, it's either the locations or the host. It's good tone to have a nice table set up when someone comes along to play. Is that different with folks the world over? Could you imagine bringing your own ruins and stuff, even to a tour ament? And what with generations of scratchbuilt terrain out there?
I'm a bit confused, can someone tell me it's alright and the sky isn't falling?





 
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut






The problem there is that terrain tends to not be the easiest to transport. Especially different types of terrain.

If you would have a system where players would bring along their own terrain I fear that it will lead to a lot of arguments about them giving an advantage to some players. Of course, GW could have a few sanctioned kits that have to be built in specific ways (it is what they like), but I think that it could be very hard to completely ban scratchbuilt terrain. Especially because many players I know aren't the biggest fans of the GW stuff anyways.

   
Made in gb
Servoarm Flailing Magos




United Kingdom

They made a comment on the preview webcast along the lines of - "lots of clubs & tournaments struggle to have enough terrain", but that's not a problem I've ever come across.

I like the idea of theming terrain to your army (ruins with GSC graffiti or Ork barricades, for examples), but I'm not keen on bringing half a tables' worth of stuff with me.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/20 18:50:27


 
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
So, today's WHC article announced terrain packs with datasheets. So far so not new. Then the article went ahead and said that people would bring their own terrain to matched play games in the future.
My first reaction was: they want to milk another line of models everyone has to bring and it's never going to stick with the community at large.
But is that right? Around here noone brings terrain, it's either the locations or the host. It's good tone to have a nice table set up when someone comes along to play. Is that different with folks the world over? Could you imagine bringing your own ruins and stuff, even to a tour ament? And what with generations of scratchbuilt terrain out there?
I'm a bit confused, can someone tell me it's alright and the sky isn't falling?


They’re selling a Chapter Approved missions book revolving around both players contributing some terrain. It’s for those missions in that book only.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 18:51:10


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

When I first read the OP comment and title, I had thought that it was just referring to the special 'terrain' such as the nurgle forest and the ork mekshop.

But standard terrain... generally that's down to the host to organise isn't it? Though a host with limited terrain, who asks people to bring some of their own to make the table better... I mean sure, that's normal too.

But having the -expectation- that people will automatically bring terrain to a game seems... odd.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Cpt. Icanus wrote:
So, today's WHC article announced terrain packs with datasheets. So far so not new. Then the article went ahead and said that people would bring their own terrain to matched play games in the future.
Just the terrain they've paid points for, or the whole board?
   
Made in gb
Servoarm Flailing Magos




United Kingdom

A.T. wrote:
Cpt. Icanus wrote:
So, today's WHC article announced terrain packs with datasheets. So far so not new. Then the article went ahead and said that people would bring their own terrain to matched play games in the future.
Just the terrain they've paid points for, or the whole board?


Unclear at this point, but I'm guessing whole board:

WarCom wrote:If you’re hankering for extra matched play content, the new Chapter Approved Mission Pack opens up a world of new tactics for terrain.

Along with 18 brand-new missions for all sizes of game,* the Mission Pack includes extensive rules for playing Tactical Deployment games, focusing on Tactical Terrain. Now, you bring your own terrain to the battle and, depending on the type, it will have specific rules. Ardent matched play fans will have a blast coming up with new strategies to deal with this challenge!

Alongside Chapter Approved come the Battlezone: Manufactorum – Terrain Datasheet Cards, designed to be used with the Tactical Deployment Mission Pack. This set of cards includes narrative and matched play terrain rules for a range of Manufactorum pieces.

It also features rules for three different Battlezones. Whatever kind of player you are, you’ll want to grab these cards to take your terrain to the next level.
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant




San Jose, CA

If I want to make sure that the table we are gonna play on has enuff terrain either:
(a) get to FLGS early to set up table with appropriate amount of terrain
(b) Bring a couple large pieces w some scatter from home to head off any discrepancies
(c) play at home where I have enuff terrain but not enuff space to play a game

I try to do (A) consistently with (B) if Im gonna be late. (C) just doesnt work without a ton of planning beforehand.

For how I play, would much rather not theme my terrain to my armies. Themed tables act as the 3rd adversary, which I love.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Sounds like a pretty transparent attempt to try to encourage people to buy GW's expensive terrain instead of making their own or relying on much cheaper third party suppliers.

It's also typical GW that they are trying to get people to pay separately not only for the terrain itself, and not only for the rules for said terrain...but even for the datasheets too. A triple charge.

If I had to guess I'd say this will end up being a huge bust, but I've been wrong before about how much people are willing to shove cash at literally anything GW pushes, so I guess we'll see.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 19:06:26


 
   
Made in de
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This just sounds like 9th edition's version of city of death to me.

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Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

I'm not a fan of the cash-grab approach, but as regards the wider point - ok, sure, right now it's kinda expected that terrain will be at the game's location, whether that's a club or someone else's house.
But... if you have the capability to bring some terrain with you... well, why not? It's easy enough to figure out a way to keep it fair, for instance players alternating placing a piece down, or agree beforehand to put the biggest piece smack-bang in the centre of the board.

For my part, I know that once lockdown ends I'll be looking at playing a couple of relative new starters that don't have a table worth of terrain going yet. So if I want to play them, I NEED to be providing the terrain. I suspect I'm not the only one that's ever been in that boat.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




So, how does this suppose to work where one player doesn't have any terrain, and just his army?


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beast_gts wrote:
They made a comment on the preview webcast along the lines of - "lots of clubs & tournaments struggle to have enough terrain", but that's not a problem I've ever come across.

I like the idea of theming terrain to your army (ruins with GSC graffiti or Ork barricades, for examples), but I'm not keen on bringing half a tables' worth of stuff with me.


Hmm. I usually have the opposite experience. The store or tournament not having enough terrain is normal.
But bringing having each player bring their own raises a lot of issues.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in is
Courageous Beastmaster




Iceland

The signs are already there: there will be faction terrain in 9th edition, much like Age of Sigmar already has.

They currently have terrain available/incoming for:

Imperial Knights
Chaos Space Marines
Death Guard - incoming
Space Marines - incoming
Necrons - incoming
Craftworlds
Orks
Sisters of Battle
Genestealer Cults

The question is more "can they make the terrain so useful/viable that you will want to take it in the first place". That is solved in AoS by having the terrain essentially free.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 20:55:59


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Made in us
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This just sounds terrible, and totally unnecessary at this point of 9th. I certainly won't be buying or using this.
Likewise with the crusade pack. I think getting some codexes out first would be better than adding expansions already.
I think GW might not see the return they were expecting with this product.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Yeah I'm confused by this article. Are they advertising another chapter approved book or is this in the already existing chapter approved and they are just marketing it?
Didin't bother with the CA this time around and seems I'd already need another one? Sounds a lot like cities of death thing..

I don't see me spending money on terrain rules where the core terrain rules are good enough personally. Or the crusade thing if I don't even have a codex..
This should be free content for those that have bought the CA book/BRB IMO.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 21:30:36


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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
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 Super Ready wrote:
I'm not a fan of the cash-grab approach, but as regards the wider point - ok, sure, right now it's kinda expected that terrain will be at the game's location, whether that's a club or someone else's house.
But... if you have the capability to bring some terrain with you... well, why not? It's easy enough to figure out a way to keep it fair, for instance players alternating placing a piece down, or agree beforehand to put the biggest piece smack-bang in the centre of the board.

For my part, I know that once lockdown ends I'll be looking at playing a couple of relative new starters that don't have a table worth of terrain going yet. So if I want to play them, I NEED to be providing the terrain. I suspect I'm not the only one that's ever been in that boat.


You can always bring your own terrain to help out. This is GW trying to charge everybody 3x for their terrain by giving GW's own terrain special rules in return for three payments - one for the terrain itself, another for the book that lets you put rules onto the terrain you bring, and a third for the datasheets for said special terrain. With the promise that you'll want to do this because it gives you an advantage.

Luckily for now it seems to be restricted to this particular game type, not to matched play generally. It feels like they're testing the waters to see whether it's something they can push into the main game the same way it's pushed into AoS.


   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

If that's the case... I can't wait to see it fall flat on its face, as everyone just continues to use relatively ordinary terrain rules.
The only way GW would have a shot at changing that is to make the terrain so powerful it's an auto-take... at which point, tourneys would have to consider banning/heavily restricting them for the sake of practicality in setting up their tables.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





The sky's not falling yet, everyone. It's a separate mission pack and so the rules for bringing your own terrain will only matter if you use this mission pack. It's not like you'll be rocking up to your FLGS and your opponent will start flooding the field with obscuring ruins.

As for being a cash grab, we'll just have to wait and see.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 22:54:39


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Sounds like a pretty transparent attempt to try to encourage people to buy GW's expensive terrain instead of making their own or relying on much cheaper third party suppliers.
As a massive proponent of GW's expensive terrain, I have to completely agree here.

They want every aspect of the 40k experience to be specifically tied to the products they sell, right down to terrain and the table surface itself, designing missions that require their specific terrain (this was the "company store" allusion I made in another thread that everyone except catbarf failed to understand). This might be the only expansion that tells you and your opponent to each bring generic terrain right now, but I can see that becoming the norm if it goes well. I fear this is them dipping their toes in the water.

yukishiro1 wrote:
If I had to guess I'd say this will end up being a huge bust...
We can only hope. Last thing we need is "Bring your own Citadel™ Battle™ Terrain™" taking hold in the community like GW's standard minimum recommended board sizes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 23:45:07


   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





 H.B.M.C. wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
If I had to guess I'd say this will end up being a huge bust...
We can only hope. Last thing we need is "Bring your own Citadel™ Battle™ Terrain™" taking hold in the community like GW's standard minimum recommended board sizes.


Now if only there was a usable Warhammer 40k App™...

Switching to requiring citadel terrain in the middle of a pandemic and while a lot of people are frankly, disenfranchised with 40k is a bad play.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/21 00:36:39


 
   
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There was one guy locally who would bring his own terrain. He had a great collection of Ork themed terrain that went with his superbly painted army. He also had some more generic rocks-and-plants set, too. I think one reason he brought terrain is that he would often come a bit later to the FLGS, and it would guarantee that he could make an ideal table. Sometimes the off-the-shelf selection could be picked pretty dry by that point. Also, it made for fantastic looking tables. Magazine level polish, really.

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 Eonfuzz wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
If I had to guess I'd say this will end up being a huge bust...
We can only hope. Last thing we need is "Bring your own Citadel™ Battle™ Terrain™" taking hold in the community like GW's standard minimum recommended board sizes.


Now if only there was a usable Warhammer 40k App™...

Switching to requiring citadel terrain in the middle of a pandemic and while a lot of people are frankly, disenfranchised with 40k is a bad play.


Just wait and see dude.

Coming Soon ™.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insectum7 wrote:
There was one guy locally who would bring his own terrain. He had a great collection of Ork themed terrain that went with his superbly painted army. He also had some more generic rocks-and-plants set, too. I think one reason he brought terrain is that he would often come a bit later to the FLGS, and it would guarantee that he could make an ideal table. Sometimes the off-the-shelf selection could be picked pretty dry by that point. Also, it made for fantastic looking tables. Magazine level polish, really.


Thats reasonable. Fair play. I hate being late and then having to use scraps all from different sets and still end up with a semi bowling ball lol.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/21 03:24:11


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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Depending on how it shakes out in the end, I see potential for competitive minded games.

Let's say you could bring a list of terrain models with specific attributes (not costing any points) and set up your own deployment zone to your liking.

It would make comparing tournament results easier as it takes one unpredictable variable out of the equation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/21 08:10:46


 
   
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Being a hobbyist who concentrates a LOT of energy on building terrain, I'd have to say if I'm going to make terrain transportable, it is a HUGE part of design consideration. It means smaller pieces, less flexibility, or a really big transport box. I don't think bringing my own terrain to any game is likely a thing that's going to stick, no matter what GW envisions about it.

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NE Ohio, USA

My circle does this - depending upon where we're playing & if there's something specific desired (gets txt: "Hey, bring your trench system!")
Of course, if it's not faction specific AoS stuff, simply bringing it doesn't = you automatically getting it in your deployment zone. Whatever the game, we set the board first drawing from the terrain pool or building to a theme.
Then we determine the mission.
THEN sides & deployment zones.

Not counting AoS faction terrain, personally I have a pretty decent terrain inventory. But we rarely play at my place..... So virtually all of my stuff has been crafted with both storage & portability in mind.

   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Balancing thoughts.

By having datacards defining the exact rules for specific terrain pieces, it’ll reduce, if not eliminate entirely, arguments about what’s what.

So I can see some sense in them.

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
By having datacards defining the exact rules for specific terrain pieces, it’ll reduce, if not eliminate entirely, arguments about what’s what.
But only when using Official™ Citadel™ Terrain™.

   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
By having datacards defining the exact rules for specific terrain pieces, it’ll reduce, if not eliminate entirely, arguments about what’s what.
But only when using Official™ Citadel™ Terrain™.

Which costs a premium assuredly.

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Edinburgh, UK

I know at the clubs I've played at, terrain is never a problem. I'm not in London anymore, but sure as hell I'd struggle transporting half a table's worth of terrain on the tube after work during rush hour. I was already accidentally hitting people with my army case at the best of times.

As with their inclusion of terrain in the new starter set for 40k, it's a cash grab at the expense of actual models here, so I'll be passing on the ruleset coming out that requires you to bring terrain.

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