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If Horus Heresy was made into a tv-series, how many episodes would you make?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut





Could you see each book being able to be compressed into an 80-90 minute episode?
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





I'd not base it on the book TBH, I'd choose a single character to be our "primary character" and focus on a single tighter narrative arc

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





England

Hell no. It’d have to be stretched out over a decade or two

See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason. 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






The horus heresy could be done on TV quite well with the right actors of course.

You would have to have a whole new script of course, only borrowing from the books, to make it fit an episodic course, and would need quite the talented writters to get the pacing right.

I could see the first season being about 2 primarch's per episode as the Emporer travels through the galaxey picking them up, with episode 1 more explaining the background and revealing why they were not with him to begin with. This would culminate with them finding out that one of the 20 was possibly killed before they were retrieved and having to take out some force of enemy for the first time together.

Season 2 would take place as the crusade was under full tilt and with the Emperorer finally stepping back to start his mysterious work on Terra. With lots of political intrigue between the brothers and going more into their backstories.

Season 3 would be were the gak really starts to hit the fan, with the chaos machinations beginning and ends with Horus getting consumed by chaos after recovering from the anethema blade.

Season 4 would be the actual start of the heresy.


Granted you'd probably have to condense seasons 1 and 2 together for today's audiences.

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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I’d gut large chunks of it.

The story itself is relatively simplistic overall, BL just went total nutso creating an entire Imperial Epoch for us Nerds to explore.

Keep it focussed. Mini-series to set things up. Explain the setting and Great Crusade. Start setting up the traitor Primarchs for their respective falls, based on their personality flaws etc.

Next? Cover off the original trilogy of books, so we can see Horus fall, up to the point of Istvaan.

Then mini-series for Istvaan.

After that, we largely follow Horus’ march to Terra. The whole Macragge thing can happen largely off-screen.

Finale? Siege of Terra.

Main story told, and plenty of provision for location specific spin offs.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I'd probably go for a LOTR esque series of movies, myself. The inconsistent and often 2D characters would struggle in a TV series and the frequent big budget battles/effects would suffer under the average TV budget (I know GOT pulled off some amazing stuff but that was more an exception). I'd purposefully try not make the majority of the Primarchs POV characters for accessibility reasons (they're super super humans after all, most of which are not present in regular 40k games) - my big debate with that is should the Emperor and Horus be two of the POV characters to make the final confrontation more meaningful to the audience?

Have the first open with a brief history of earth and the great crusade (don't mention the thunder warriors, STCs or Xenos etc, keep it light and simple purely to establish the setting and what's going on). Through the rest of the film, establish universe, context and character (we would, for example, need to see the Golden Throne and know it as a 'walled path through hell itself' to explain things later on). Open with a big Ullanor Crusade battle. Probably pick 4 characters as POV (i'd likely go with Ahriman, Abaddon or Loken, MAYBE Sanguinius and another loyal non-primarch, maybe even some sort of Guardsman or Serf. Malcador could be interesting though). It's important to show the Space Marines as 'heroes' (we're not here to explore the fascism of the IOM) and the Primarchs as these 'Good' god-like beings, beyond corruption. Throw in Horus' coronation, plenty of Chaos shenanigans with the WB and the council of Nikea. Then end with Horus' corruption and Magnus' accident to warn the Emperor.

Have the second open with Horus' manipulations and the emperor being busy with the web way catastrophe. End with the burning of Prospero. Exit of Ahriman as a POV character, intro of Garro perhaps and one other (maybe Corvus). Keep other POV characters. We would want to use this film's time to also test and poke at loyalties of previously touched characters.

The third would open with the battle of Istaan III and Horus' open rebellion. Would climax with the Drop Site Massacre. There would also be some updates in between of the situation on Terra in regards to the webway etc in order to better establish the Golden Throne and key players for the next film (such as Dorne and Valador).

The fourth (and final, I feel) would open with a little back story on the Emperor and the creation of the primarchs, a reminder of why he did it and who he got the power from. It would then flow into Horus' own quest for more power. Then the majority of the film would be the siege of the palace.

A TV series would be fine, I wouldn't mind it at all, but there's a lot of work that would need to be done in order to pen this sort of stuff into that kind of breadth and time. The story would need to be refined and reviewed to make it a tighter narrative with meaningful or more developed themes and accessibility. The characters would need a slight overhaul to improve depth and general balance/consistency. I always felt 40k was more pop-corn inspiration than Oscar contender.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/09/21 10:03:15


- 10,000 pts CSM  
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





to be brutally honest I'd rather not see a Horus Heresy TV series. they'd be better off doing it as something else. an inqusitor based series would be ideal (there's a reason eisenhorn was optioned) barring that something akin to dawn of fire.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



Dudley, UK

BrianDavion wrote:
to be brutally honest I'd rather not see a Horus Heresy TV series. they'd be better off doing it as something else. an inqusitor based series would be ideal (there's a reason eisenhorn was optioned) barring that something akin to dawn of fire.


I second this. I don't think a TV series on the Heresy would be great as it would either drag out too long and many hard core fans would be annoyed if it didn't cover everything. If they were to do it, I think a series of one off stories would be good or alternatively follow one legion and explore the heresy from their point of view but a new character who isn't close to what we've been shown already.

I think following a Inquisitor would be good, so hopefully it will be interesting if the Eisenhorn series gets made (yes I know it's being developed but that doesn't mean it will be made).

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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




I would say ten 50 minutes episodes, maybe height and it should be well enough to cover it all relatively well. Basically, one episode or two for each book in the trilogy, one for the massacre of Istvaan, one for Lorgar's fall (in achronological manner), one for Calth, one for Prospero and another one for Luther vs Lion and one 90 minutes finale for Terra and we are pretty much golden.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






None. It should never exist. Burn all the books too whilst we're at it.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Would have to be a mega series like GOT etc, there’s already a huge amount of story that needs to be cut but would it really work if you didn’t have a story line for all primarchs? Fulgrim and ferrus are not the main characters but fulgrim killing ferrus is a big part of the story and you need to see fulgrim and EC fall to chaos after the Lear. So 18 episodes series one maybe a few extra needed to pull the story together
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






None, because it would be cocked up immensely.

If I had a gun to my head, I'd want a 2D animated miniseries for each book.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




If there were to be a 40k TV series I don't think HH would be the best fit. Something like an Inquisitor-based series as suggested above seems like a better fit.

The HH was a very simple narrative until BL went crazy with it, basically consisting of the fall of Horus, the Dropsite Massacre, some vaguely defined messing around to keep the loyalist Legions out of things, some brief descriptions of things like the Fall of Prospero and a brief description of the Siege of Terra. I feel like a movie trilogy would cover that nicely.
   
Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





It's hard to make a conventional series when there isn't a main character or a plot tightly keeping everything together. What we have is a succession of events, many of them only loosely tied to the rest.

You could make stand-alone episodes leading to the heresy for the finale, but a true series would be kind of a mess.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Also, remember that TV series are generally not commissioned for longer than one season at a time. Having a seasons-long multi-arc story is not something that's going to be easy to pitch to producers. Likewise, some slow-burn build-up isn't going to be too popular, nor is taking dozens of little detours to introduce all the different Legions and Primarchs one at a time.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

10 seasons of 21 40 min episodes like Stargate.... you asked what I wanted, not what was realistic
   
Made in gb
Mad Gyrocopter Pilot





Northumberland

If I was making a 40k tv series I wouldn't do the Horus Heresy.

They'd have to pick something with a human element, an inquisitor or a rogue trader as others have suggested. Something that gives lots of scope for exploration of the universe and would have to be less heavy on CGI or giant battles.

A crime thriller in a hive world threatened by a genestealer cult. Now that would be good. Something that really showed the corruption of the Imperium that was perhaps only saved by individuals hoping to make a difference.

One and a half feet in the hobby


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Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

One for every good HH book written.

So like, maybe 6 episodes?

 warboss wrote:
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Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Crazyterran wrote:
One for every good HH book written.

So like, maybe 6 episodes?
That's an odd way to spell 0.
   
Made in gb
Twisting Tzeentch Horror






A TV series would be too much; they would either try to jam in too much and spoil it, or leave too much out and spoil it. There is so so much context needed for the HH.
Maybe the setting would be good for a film following a character through an arc, be it a primarch, a marine, or just a soldier perhaps.
I think some really exceptional short films could be made that don't tell a story but rather convey a setting.

However, if a series was to be made I'd want it to strictly follow the mournival and Abaddon, focusing on their corruption rather than horus' and following the march to terra from their eyes under him. However I don't know if the depth of character is really there.

Maybe it could be pulled off, but imo way too much of a risk to even try to make something like that

 insaniak wrote:

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Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Tiennos wrote:
It's hard to make a conventional series when there isn't a main character or a plot tightly keeping everything together. What we have is a succession of events, many of them only loosely tied to the rest.

You could make stand-alone episodes leading to the heresy for the finale, but a true series would be kind of a mess.


agreed, asking for a HH series would be like asking for a WW2 TV series.

I mean don't get me wrong I could do it, but it'd likely not cover nearly eneugh.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Behold the universe. Infinitely complex, yet wonderfully simple. Tragedy turns to triumph, turns tragic once more.

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Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

20 episodes.

But episodes 2 and 11 are missing.

 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
A TV series would be too much; they would either try to jam in too much and spoil it, or leave too much out and spoil it. There is so so much context needed for the HH.
Maybe the setting would be good for a film following a character through an arc, be it a primarch, a marine, or just a soldier perhaps.
I think some really exceptional short films could be made that don't tell a story but rather convey a setting.


Huh. I'd really argue that film is much, much worse for storytelling than a series. Especially for a character arc.
You've essentially got a 20 minute intro, a roughly 20 minute climax/wrap and about an hour to jam in Everything Else. If it isn't a race or extremely tight (and nothing about the HH is either), you've basically got all sorts of bits and pieces spilling and sprawled all over the core of the movie

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

And while 'leaving too much out' is certainly a risk, there is an awful lot of unnecessary filler in the books.

Besides which, a series doesn't need to cover every single detail. We have the books for that already. If they were to make a series, the main focus should be on Horus' fall, Istvaan, and the assault on Terra, with a very brief look at each of the other Primarchs and what led to their choice to rebel or stay loyal.

(Which, quite frankly, is also what the books should have done, with other detail filled in with spin-offs later if there was enough demand for it)

 
   
Made in za
Dakka Veteran



South Africa

More than 8 seasons to make sure the final few episodes makes consistent in universe sense.

Snark aside I'd definitely make it a long term game. Maybe not as bad as tbe HH book series but you would need a lot of rewriting to make it fun to watch. There are too many battles in the books to make good TV.

I wouldn't spend too mich time developing the Primarchs, good TV is show-dont-tell but a lot of the Emperor's and the Primarchs stories can be hinted at. Without going too fanboi look at Ned Stark in GOT. His character was pretty much established in the first episode simply by people saying he's a good guy with a little nod to him being good here and there.

Season 1 setting up the universe, explaining how stuff works introducing the Primarchs, the retirement of the Emp, the Edict of Nikea, show the lodges introduce the Interex. Show the Warmasters fall.

Season 2 the rise of the Warmaster, the fall of the other Primarchs with backstories to help us know them.

Season 3 Istvaan, DA dithering, WS/BA distraction, SW purging ot Prospero. Imperial Secundus. Magnus doing nothing wrong.

Seaaon 4 March on Terra, finale.

Im not a screen writer so maybe it'll take an extra season to flesh it out but that's sorta the timeline I'd do. The main problem would be writers and producers trying to be clever and "subverting expectations". Too many people know the stories, if just the outline. It'd be like trying to film the Bible. Everyone knows the basic story and how it'll end. You can't subvert anything without changing things considerably.

Expect there to be complaints about the mostly male cast.

KBK 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut




I wouldn't bother trying to translate a book series into a tv show. I'd list the important thematic points, particular scenes and individual interactions I wanted and then only do the necessary things for that. If I had to merge or excise legions for it to flow smoothly then so be it.

Having twenty simple legions works great for a tabletop game because it's all about your dudes, but if you want a show that is actually good on its own merits instead of only as a noisy fluff reference delivery vehicle then you gotta do things in a way that makes sense for the medium.
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




 insaniak wrote:
20 episodes.

But episodes 2 and 11 are missing.


I was about to make (almost) the same joke with twenty seasons instead of twenty episodes

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/10/06 12:04:31


The answer is inside you; but it is wrong. 
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Professional




Nottingham, England

Ten 12 episode seasons.

Season 1 : end of the Crusade led by the Emperor, the Abyss. Meets the primarchs.

Season 2 : build up to istvaan, Eisenstein, ending in the retribution force landing.

Season 3 : dropsite massacre and early stages like assassins from nemesis

Season 4 : dark angels history , blood angels on signus prime , wolves and thousand sons

Season 5 : ultramar

Season 6 : mechanicus / tallarn

Season 7 : Malcador / grey knights, webway war, Vulckan arc resolved

Season 8: side stories like pythos, Russ attempt on Horus Imperium secundus , dark angel arc ends on caliban

Season 9 : attack on Sol, start of Siege ,
Spoiler:
ends with Dark Angels transmission


Season 10 : final 4 books of the siege series.

The series would be a train wreck as there is so much to cram in and assumes a lot of background knowledge. Overly simplified it'll be hated by fans. Having said that Babylon 5 wove a ton of plot and characters and events into a semi comprehensible show with, composted to today, basic cgi.

I'm surprised someone has said you could leave out Ultramarine as by the Siege it's all about the loyalists buying time for Gullimans boys in blue to arrive, even Horus acknowledges that he has to defeat the Emperor before that happens,
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
Could you see each book being able to be compressed into an 80-90 minute episode?
Hell no.

1 Episode would break the budget on special effects.

An anime series could work

1 25 episode Season per 3 books
   
 
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