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The Supreme Command Detach allows Primarchs, Daemon Primarchs, and HQ's who are not LOWs but have the SUPREME COMMANDER thing. Does anyone have one already? Are they incoming with the codex release?

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Breton wrote:
The Supreme Command Detach allows Primarchs, Daemon Primarchs, and HQ's who are not LOWs but have the SUPREME COMMANDER thing. Does anyone have one already? Are they incoming with the codex release?


Yeah, I do kinda wish we had more wargear options for any nominated HQ.
ie GW just chooses 1 HQ option per faction to nail down a LOT of customisation.

Warboss for Orks ( MegaArmor, Bike, Kombi Dakka etc )
Chapter Master for Marines ( Artificer Armor, Terminator, Gravis, Primaris etc, could just be represented with different torsos )
Necron Overlord
etc

Otherwise the only non LOW, LOW would be ghazzy or ctan shards
   
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 Eonfuzz wrote:
Breton wrote:
The Supreme Command Detach allows Primarchs, Daemon Primarchs, and HQ's who are not LOWs but have the SUPREME COMMANDER thing. Does anyone have one already? Are they incoming with the codex release?


Yeah, I do kinda wish we had more wargear options for any nominated HQ.
ie GW just chooses 1 HQ option per faction to nail down a LOT of customisation.

Warboss for Orks ( MegaArmor, Bike, Kombi Dakka etc )
Chapter Master for Marines ( Artificer Armor, Terminator, Gravis, Primaris etc, could just be represented with different torsos )
Necron Overlord
etc

Otherwise the only non LOW, LOW would be ghazzy or ctan shards


Nah, I'm talking about the Supreme Command Detach from the 9e BRB. 0CP, +X CP based on your other Det's, can only include one HQ or One LOW which must have the SUPREME COMMANDER, PRIMARCH, or DAEMON PRIMARCH keys.

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 carldooley wrote:
Commander Shadowsun


Has a Supreme Commander special rule, and a COMMANDER keyword but not a SUPREME COMMANDER keyword. Sounds like there aren't any (yet?). So we get something else to guess and wishcast at? So Shadowsun could be. And he might be the prototype for who qualifies and what they may get reworked into i.e. his Cross Sept Trait rule - For example Ghaz, Yarrick, Phoenix Lords, The Ynarri Triumvurate (as one Sheet/choice), Fabius Bile, Potentially other Chaos nameds in mixed warbands, Inquisitors heading an IG army, Souping One Knight warlord into IG/Mechanicus armies?

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There aren't any YET, but as for who it'll be?

Probably a Marine Chapter Master. Probably a Necron Phaeron. Probably a Daemon Prince.

Past that?

No one knows.... yet.
   
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Isn't Azrael a suprem commander of dark angels&succesors, at least in the lore part of his description?

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Karol wrote:
Isn't Azrael a suprem commander of dark angels&succesors, at least in the lore part of his description?


A few of the Primogenitor Chapter Chapter Masters have some fluff regarding Doomsday Scenario plans - The Fists supposedly have/used/almost used one in the War of the Beasts or something. I think Dante did use one in the Baal scenario. DA don't have a static world to defend like that, but they do all collaborate on the Fallen.


Wakshaani
Post Sep/21/2020 21:55:24 Subject: Who are the Non-LOW Supreme Commanders?
There aren't any YET, but as for who it'll be?

Probably a Marine Chapter Master. Probably a Necron Phaeron. Probably a Daemon Prince.

Past that?

No one knows.... yet.


I suspect it's a cross over HQ slot - either based on Faction keywords or FOC Slot. So maybe the Chapter Masters if there's some issue with putting one in the normal Det HQ slots - Please God don't make them LOW's again. That was abysmal - But it would work well for things like Shadowsun, Phoenix Lords, Fabius Bile, etc HQ's that don't have or otherwise cross Faction Keywords through iconic, mercenary or otherwise faction-wide appeal.

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I suspect it'll go to minis of characters that are the unchallanged "supreme commanders" of a wider faction Ghaz and Shadowsun are obvious ones. and I could see a strong case for Abaddon.

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Breton wrote:
 carldooley wrote:
Commander Shadowsun


Has a Supreme Commander special rule, and a COMMANDER keyword but not a SUPREME COMMANDER keyword. Sounds like there aren't any (yet?). So we get something else to guess and wishcast at? So Shadowsun could be. And he might be the prototype for who qualifies and what they may get reworked into i.e. his Cross Sept Trait rule


...you might want to get Shadowsun's gender right, Breton.

Primarch covers Roboute, and theoretically any other returning Loyalist Primarchs.

Daemon Primarch covers Magnus and Mortarion, as well as any returning Traitor Primarchs (as I think they're all Daemon Primarchs by now).

SUPREME COMMANDER is a tricky one, as I'm don't think anyone has been published with the keyword to date - I could be wrong on that. Abbadon and Ghazghkull make sense, given they are the closest CSM and Orks currently get to a figurehead. Given Shadowsun already has a similarly-titled special rule, she might also qualify. If we ever see Vect make a return, I'd expect him to have it for Dark Eldar. Possibly the Swarmlord for Tyranids, but that might be a reach - and it would be more appropriate for something like a Dominatrix, if FW/GW ever produced one. The Silent King would seem a sensible choice for Necrons (nearly forgot him).

Craftworld Eldar seem too de-centralised for a singular Supreme Commander, and Harlequins have no significant named SC to gain such a keyword - this also applies to GSC. Neither Knight 'dex has a suitable candidate for the keyword. Given the Daemons book has its four loyalties, you either end up with four Supreme Commanders or none. I can see an argument for Yvrainne as the SC for the Ynnari, but I'm not sure that works with how that soup needs to be structured for detachments to gain Ynnari benefits, as currently written.

Other Imperial factions are tricky ones - if you view them as parts of Imperium, then Roboute covers the Supreme Commander role for them all, as that's kinda his current position within the Imperium. If you want to break it down a bit, then none of the AdMech, Imperial Guard, Sisters of Silence or Sisters of Battle have a suitable figure(head). I think that also applies to the Grey Knights, as I don't think their Chapter Master is currently a model in the game, is it?

Trajann Valoris would work for the Custodes, and the likes of Dante/Azrael/Grimnar/Helbrecht for their Chapters, until and unless their Primarch makes a return to the scene (in the same way Calgar would've done, but Roboute now fills that role).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/22 05:24:09


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I would say any current named Chapter Master would get that key word (even Calgar).
Then you would be looking at the special characters who effectively “lead” their entire faction. So Ghazghkull Abaddon Shadowson Farsight Eldrad Trajann Valoris The Silent King and Cawl.

You might get others who have a Primarch but might get it to so Ahriman and Typhus perhaps.

This would make sense to me but then again who knows what criteria GW will have.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/22 05:33:42


 
   
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BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect it'll go to minis of characters that are the unchallanged "supreme commanders" of a wider faction Ghaz and Shadowsun are obvious ones. and I could see a strong case for Abaddon.


I'm not sure if Dear Abby gets it. They've worked awful hard turning Chaos Soup into Black Legion, DG, etc. Letting him Soup back in would erode a lot of it. He is the kind of character that should (assume we're guessing the intent correctly), but I don't think they'll take that step backwards. That's why I went with Bile, he's more Mercenary and already somewhat exiled from Emperor's Children. Even if Fulgrim shows up, Bile is unlikely to reunite. The difference between Bile and Typhus, is Bile trades his talents off the battlefield for troops on the field while Typhus is actually rebelling/competing in the Legion against Mortarion, much to the delight of Nurgle.

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 Dysartes wrote:
Craftworld Eldar seem too de-centralised for a singular Supreme Commander

What about Eldrad Ulthran? I've always felt like he wasn't directly attached to a craftworld, but would join any aeldari to protect them and/or shape the future according to his visions. Locking him into Ulthwe in 8th felt very wrong to me.

Other Imperial factions are tricky ones - if you view them as parts of Imperium, then Roboute covers the Supreme Commander role for them all, as that's kinda his current position within the Imperium. If you want to break it down a bit, then none of the AdMech, Imperial Guard, Sisters of Silence or Sisters of Battle have a suitable figure(head).

Figures like Helbrecht, Dante or Creed were in charge of entire battlezones (Armageddon, Cadia) and I'd bet there are more figures in the imperial background like them. From a game perspective, it's much harder, as it effectively means a free HQ slot for them, so factions without a Supreme Commander could be at a disadvantage.

I think that also applies to the Grey Knights, as I don't think their Chapter Master is currently a model in the game, is it?

Has there been a successor to Kaldor Draigo?

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 Jidmah wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
Craftworld Eldar seem too de-centralised for a singular Supreme Commander

What about Eldrad Ulthran? I've always felt like he wasn't directly attached to a craftworld, but would join any aeldari to protect them and/or shape the future according to his visions. Locking him into Ulthwe in 8th felt very wrong to me...


...He's always been the most senior Farseer of Ulthwe. There has never been a time when Eldrad wasn't directly attached to Ulthwe.

If you wanted to pick out "supreme commanders" for the Eldar that aren't attached to specific Craftworlds the Phoenix Lords would seem the obvious pick to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/22 07:51:41


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Ulthran in the current fluff is a bit of an outcast for his antics with the Ynnari and trying to wake up Ynnead early, he's not exactly welcome on most Craftworlds now, so while he still has respect, there aren't many who will answer his call. The Eldar have no supreme leader now at this point where before Eldrad was listened to on a regular basis.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/22 09:43:26


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 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
Craftworld Eldar seem too de-centralised for a singular Supreme Commander

What about Eldrad Ulthran? I've always felt like he wasn't directly attached to a craftworld, but would join any aeldari to protect them and/or shape the future according to his visions. Locking him into Ulthwe in 8th felt very wrong to me...


...He's always been the most senior Farseer of Ulthwe. There has never been a time when Eldrad wasn't directly attached to Ulthwe.

If you wanted to pick out "supreme commanders" for the Eldar that aren't attached to specific Craftworlds the Phoenix Lords would seem the obvious pick to me.



If a pheonix lord was made a supreme commander would that mean the eldar could only take one?

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 AnomanderRake wrote:


...He's always been the most senior Farseer of Ulthwe. There has never been a time when Eldrad wasn't directly attached to Ulthwe.
There was a time it didn't matter. And lest we forget - assuming the guessing is correct and Shadowsun is the prototype - just because they already had a faction doesn't mean they won't get a version of the same Supreme Commander Rule to allow your primary detach to retain their Sept/Craftworld/etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/22 09:46:57


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 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Ulthran in the current fluff is a bit of an outcast for his antics with the Ynnari and trying to wake up Ynnead early, he's not exactly welcome on most Craftworlds now, so while he still has respect, there aren't many who will answer his call. The Eldar have no supreme leader now at this point where before Eldrad was listened to on a regular basis.


I see, I stopped following eldar fluff before the whole Ynnari thing happened. This of course would make him rather unfit as a lead as a supreme commander.

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Lets be honest it’s almost certainly been brought in so that GW can sell their expensive kits for major characters that canonically belong to one sub faction to collectors of others. (Not that that’s necessarily a bad thing)

So IMO Abby, Gaz, Silent King, Cawl and Shadowsun are a certainty when their respective books come out. Possibly also primaris-Calgar. If Vect on dais comes out then definitely him as well.

They may even go further and start giving it to all faction-locked SCs in plastic. In which case it’d cover primaris-mephiston, Eldrad, Lilith when her new model comes out, Szeras, Khan, etc.

I’d expect the first couple of codifies to give us a good idea of what the intent will be between the two.
   
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BrianDavion wrote:
If a pheonix lord was made a supreme commander would that mean the eldar could only take one?

Nothing prevents you from using supreme commanders as regular HQs, you basically get an additional HQ slot for your warlord at the cost of one detachment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/22 10:22:11


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 Jidmah wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
If a pheonix lord was made a supreme commander would that mean the eldar could only take one?

Nothing prevents you from using supreme commanders as regular HQs, you basically get an additional HQ slot for your warlord at the cost of one detachment.


true I was assuming for some reason any unit with supreme commander would be made a lord of war

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Lord Zarkov wrote:
Lets be honest it’s almost certainly been brought in so that GW can sell their expensive kits for major characters that canonically belong to one sub faction to collectors of others. (Not that that’s necessarily a bad thing)

So IMO Abby, Gaz, Silent King, Cawl and Shadowsun are a certainty when their respective books come out. Possibly also primaris-Calgar. If Vect on dais comes out then definitely him as well.
Probably not Calgar more likely Guiliman. Calgar doesn't give any bonus to non-UM like Shadowsun, Abby, and Guilliman.

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The Dominatrix is not just a gargant, it's a titan, I don't expect her to show up as a supreme commander in a non-apocalypse game.

The Swarmlord is a comfortable and obvious choice, even true to the fluff. And one of few entities in the galaxy that can match or even exceed the primarchs (if Gw ever stops treating him as a comedic relief)

I hope he gets an actual warlord trait if he ends up being a supcom.
   
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Breton wrote:
Karol wrote:
Isn't Azrael a suprem commander of dark angels&succesors, at least in the lore part of his description?


A few of the Primogenitor Chapter Chapter Masters have some fluff regarding Doomsday Scenario plans - The Fists supposedly have/used/almost used one in the War of the Beasts or something. I think Dante did use one in the Baal scenario. DA don't have a static world to defend like that, but they do all collaborate on the Fallen.


Azrael doesn't use it as an emergency thing, The Unforgiven are secretly a single body ruled by Azrael/the current Supreme Grandmaster that hides as multiple Chapters. Their first bit of 8th ed fluff is literally gathering the Chapters to decide what to do when Guilliman shows up and Azrael debates opening fire or not because he thinks Guilliman is there to punish them for Legion building rather than delivering Primaris like he actually is.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/22 11:32:20


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Right behind you.

Breton wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect it'll go to minis of characters that are the unchallanged "supreme commanders" of a wider faction Ghaz and Shadowsun are obvious ones. and I could see a strong case for Abaddon.


I'm not sure if Dear Abby gets it. They've worked awful hard turning Chaos Soup into Black Legion, DG, etc. Letting him Soup back in would erode a lot of it. He is the kind of character that should (assume we're guessing the intent correctly), but I don't think they'll take that step backwards. That's why I went with Bile, he's more Mercenary and already somewhat exiled from Emperor's Children. Even if Fulgrim shows up, Bile is unlikely to reunite. The difference between Bile and Typhus, is Bile trades his talents off the battlefield for troops on the field while Typhus is actually rebelling/competing in the Legion against Mortarion, much to the delight of Nurgle.

Wut?

Abaddon for Supreme Commander is basically a lock-in for Codex Chaos Marines. Supreme Commanders aren't those characters that are 'mercenary' or whatever nonsense. They're those characters who draw loyalties from folks outside of their named faction. Abaddon had Black Legionnaires who hailed from the Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Thousand Sons, etc.

Bile is just a dude running around, playing mad scientist.

It's like saying "Yarrick should be the Guard Supreme Commander!"....yeah, no? He shouldn't be. He's a Big Deal to the Armageddon Steel Legion and those who fought alongside of him on Armageddon. But so is Creed for the Cadians and anyone who fought in the 13th Black Crusade. We have zero Guard characters that feasibly should be a Supreme Commander at this juncture.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
Breton wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect it'll go to minis of characters that are the unchallanged "supreme commanders" of a wider faction Ghaz and Shadowsun are obvious ones. and I could see a strong case for Abaddon.


I'm not sure if Dear Abby gets it. They've worked awful hard turning Chaos Soup into Black Legion, DG, etc. Letting him Soup back in would erode a lot of it. He is the kind of character that should (assume we're guessing the intent correctly), but I don't think they'll take that step backwards. That's why I went with Bile, he's more Mercenary and already somewhat exiled from Emperor's Children. Even if Fulgrim shows up, Bile is unlikely to reunite. The difference between Bile and Typhus, is Bile trades his talents off the battlefield for troops on the field while Typhus is actually rebelling/competing in the Legion against Mortarion, much to the delight of Nurgle.

Wut?

Abaddon for Supreme Commander is basically a lock-in for Codex Chaos Marines. Supreme Commanders aren't those characters that are 'mercenary' or whatever nonsense. They're those characters who draw loyalties from folks outside of their named faction. Abaddon had Black Legionnaires who hailed from the Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Thousand Sons, etc.
Dear Abby does have a generic Heretic Astartes rule that says he could/should be, but I still don't know if they want to dilute the Black Legion.


Bile is just a dude running around, playing mad scientist.
But he does it with mixed warbands.

It's like saying "Yarrick should be the Guard Supreme Commander!"....yeah, no? He shouldn't be. He's a Big Deal to the Armageddon Steel Legion and those who fought alongside of him on Armageddon. But so is Creed for the Cadians and anyone who fought in the 13th Black Crusade. We have zero Guard characters that feasibly should be a Supreme Commander at this juncture.

Yarrick is one that could qualify He's got Cross Regiment special rules, and no set Regiment to foul up Vox and Orders.


One interesting thing while I was looking up some of these things Ghaz, Shadowsun, Jain Zar and Bile were all in Psychic Awakening.

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Right behind you.

Breton wrote:
Dear Abby does have a generic Heretic Astartes rule that says he could/should be, but I still don't know if they want to dilute the Black Legion.

But Bile does it with mixed warbands.

You keep saying 'diluting the Black Legion'...there's no guarantee that it would. From what we've been told/had suggested for Supreme Command Detachments? It's meant to be the Big Bad Hero(or Villain or Monster Thing) for the faction. Hence Primarch, Daemon Primarch, and Supreme Commanders.
Abaddon qualifies for that. Bile doesn't.

Yarrick is one that could qualify He's got Cross Regiment special rules, and no set Regiment to foul up Vox and Orders.

Yarrick has 'cross-Regiment special rules' because he's a Commissar. That's all. The only thing special about him is his 'Hero of Hades Hive' rule...beyond that, he's just an old commissar with a big klaw.

Creed, on the opposite end of that scale, literally has a rule called "Supreme Commander". He has zero cross-regiment rules(really should have though, since dude literally commanded a warzone consisting of Marines, Guard from multiple worlds, Mechanicus cohorts, and even Titan Legions) because that's how it works for Guard Orders. The Guard book was basically just copy/pasted from the previous iteration with no real reworking or concept exploration done.

One interesting thing while I was looking up some of these things Ghaz, Shadowsun, Jain Zar and Bile were all in Psychic Awakening.

They were all in Psychic Awakening because they got new models.

Why Drazhar and Jain Zar? Why Mephiston? Why Lazarus?
Why Shadowsun? Why Bile? Why Ghaz and Ragnar? Why Iluminor Szeras?
That's a good question. But they're the ones that got picked up and thus saw rules.

My personal 'best guess' for Supreme Commanders:
-Shrike(Chapter Master of the Raven Guard)
-Azrael(Dark Angels Chapter Master)
-Dante(Blood Angels Chapter Master...unless he gets offed)
-Logan Grimnar(Space Wolves Chapter Master) and/or Bjorn the Fell-Handed
-Shadowsun and Farsight
-Ghazghkull Thraka
-Phoenix Lords and/or Avatar of Khaine
-Something is coming for the Drukhari and it remains to be seen what.
-The named Greater Daemon variants
-Inquisitors
-Silent King
-Swarmlord
-Abaddon
-Belisarius Cawl

I genuinely believe that some factions will have quite a few Supreme Commander options, simply from the fact that those factions have quite a few 'big name' styled characters.
   
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I would have though Abaddon is exactly what the detachment is for - he is the grand Warmaster of Chaos, literally the supreme commander of an entire super-faction’s forces and he’s a nearly £40 faction-locked model.

Being able to take him alongside other Chaos forces while not messing with his BLACK LEGION keyword or having other forces ‘counts as’ BL seems exactly what GW is trying to encourage
   
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Lord Zarkov wrote:
I would have though Abaddon is exactly what the detachment is for - he is the grand Warmaster of Chaos, literally the supreme commander of an entire super-faction’s forces and he’s a nearly £40 faction-locked model.

Being able to take him alongside other Chaos forces while not messing with his BLACK LEGION keyword or having other forces ‘counts as’ BL seems exactly what GW is trying to encourage

But he isn't the "supreme commander" of all csm. He's the supreme commander of the Black Legion, which includes many defectors from other legions. He can get other legions and warbands to join in his Black Crusades, but many of those don't consider him any more of a supreme commander than the non-American Allies considered Roosevelt their supreme commander during WW2. And plenty of Legionnaires from other legions have no problem telling him that to his face, please see Talos in Soul Hunter.

I don't doubt that gw will give him the Supreme Commander keyword so he can be used in this way for all the Legions, but they will be going against their own lore if they do so. And they will be relegating all the Legions to just being "Black Legion but painted different" again, and that's not the direction I personally want to see the faction to continue to be taken down. But yeah, they'll probably do it, in order to sell that £40 model.
   
 
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