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Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





UK

just reading another 40k novel and gellar fields are really convinent as a plot device to allow warp travel. Thing is why are they not used outside of ships like on a planetary scale or by titans etc...

Maybe they are but never read about em. You do however often read of warp breaches and daemons assaulting entire worlds...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/04 14:01:59


 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Well....

Gellar Fields are known to be exceptionally esoteric. And they do nothing else beyond create a (hopefully) stable bubble of realspace around a vessel entering the Warp.

So, one could say perhaps more accurately that all things being well, a given vessel itself never actually enters the warp. But its Gellar field does (probably splitting hairs).

Now, even with the engines and generators of a warp capable ship, those fields are somewhat unstable.

So, to power them for an entire planet? Probably exceptionally energy intensive when the alternative is to simply be vigilant for heretics.

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Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

A Gellar Field doesn't stop Chaos if its already on the ship, it just creates a bubble to stop the Demons breaching the ship whilst its travelling through the Warp

Planet sized Gellar fields would likely require an insanely powerful fuel source to be created and maintained and that's if you can maintain it at a stable rate. Not forgetting that you'd likely then be shutting off all solar and extraterrestrial energy and material. Light and energy from the sun; light from stars and moon; trade and transport from ships.

The world would be totally isolated

   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

Thing is, Daemons can manifest in real space, they just need the *ability* to do so. So if a Daemon is already in real space, then there’s something there to enable that. Setting up a Gellar field would not stop whatever is allowing the manifestation, such as whatever ritual and maintenance is allowing them to be there.

Ya gotta purge the source, not the result.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Now Grandfather Nurgle has the Gellar Pox among his collection of diseases a planetary Gellar field is going to have some very unpleasant consquences even if it could be powered

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/13 19:02:50


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





What about if you had planet in the eye of terror like a crone world, and setup a planet wide cellar field. Then you took out all the demons on the planet.

Would be a good beach head for imperial forces considering cadia is gone
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Well except that the planet in the Eye of Terror likely has no sun energy, could have warped moons causing all kinds of trouble and would be pretty much isolated and unable to turn the field off to let Imperial ships in or out.

You'd have to have a field cover a system not just a planet to make it effective at creating a beachhead.

   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




The old Eye of Terror campaign had the Eldar success in the battlezone of the daemon world Eidolon be reflected in the final result writeup by saying the Eldar had planted some artifacts and created a few pockets of sanity on that world. Unknown how those artifacts worked or whether they were gellar field generators of some form.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Eldar would have reason to want to return to worlds so they can harvest SoulStones; however in a grim twist they'd also not want the worlds "saved" either. Since if they were saved from Chaos the soulstones might be lost. So now they'd be trapped having to keep their old worlds entombed within Chaos until such time as they might defeat/cage or otherwise free themselves from the threat of Slaanesh.

   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Keep in mind that Eyespace and Warpspace are not the same thing. If the warp were a body of water, Eyespace is a raft made out of kitchen sponges floating on top of it. If you were to stand on it, you'll end up damp, and the really wet stuff can still seep through at times, but you're not going to drown unless you accidentally plunge through...which can happen.
   
Made in se
Member of the Malleus





Iirc gellar fields works like a psyker but opposite. A psyker draws upon the warp to affect real space. They do this by opening a tiny window where the warp can enter. A gellar field brings with it a piece of real space into the warp. Then their bubble keeps that piece of real space with them. They offer no actual shielding from deamons, it’s more that deamons are unlikely to notice it. Real space is also an unnatural habitat for deamons so many are simply not interested in it. I think there’s an occurance like that in innocence proves nothing. A deamon enters a ship but is very bothered by all these weird laws called “physics” and “time”. It still murders a bunch of crew but eventually leaves because it’s not fun when it starts getting hurt. A gellar field in real space would practically do nothing because it’s already surrounded by real space.

A void shield is a different matter entirely. That’s the shield that takes a shot and dumps it in a different dimension. Vortex grenades does the same.

His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. 
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

Lulz... they should weaponize void shields and put them on missiles / torpedoes.

Fire the weapon, delay activation of device by a few seconds to clear the hull, and then have a ballistic void device that flies through space, gobbling up reality as it goes and dumping it into the warp.

Kind of like Star Trek... you could just teleport torpedoes into enemy ships and kablamo!
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Nerak wrote:
Iirc gellar fields works like a psyker but opposite. A psyker draws upon the warp to affect real space. They do this by opening a tiny window where the warp can enter. A gellar field brings with it a piece of real space into the warp. Then their bubble keeps that piece of real space with them. They offer no actual shielding from deamons, it’s more that deamons are unlikely to notice it. Real space is also an unnatural habitat for deamons so many are simply not interested in it. I think there’s an occurance like that in innocence proves nothing. A deamon enters a ship but is very bothered by all these weird laws called “physics” and “time”. It still murders a bunch of crew but eventually leaves because it’s not fun when it starts getting hurt. A gellar field in real space would practically do nothing because it’s already surrounded by real space.

A void shield is a different matter entirely. That’s the shield that takes a shot and dumps it in a different dimension. Vortex grenades does the same.


That's my understanding too. A Gellar Field is basically just a piece of realspace trapped in a force field just before the ship enters the Warp. Theoretically it doesn't even stop Daemons since they can manifest in realspace under the right conditions. It just seems that having those conditions coincide with a Warp jump would be quite rare.
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




I quote from https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gellar_field:
«The Gellar field was invented along with the warp drive, allowing warp-capable ships and their occupants to actually survive the hostile environment of the warp. It protects the ship and its occupants from the hostility of the warp itself as well as from the predations of warp entities such as Daemons.[1] Gellar Fields are generated via a comatose Psyker slaved into the bowels of Imperial vessels
The site https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Gellar_Field is more accurate about its functioning:
«The voidship effectively shields itself within the dreaming psykers' projections of reality which serves as the "bubble" of realspace that pushes back the Immaterium for a time. However, these psykers generally lose their lives through this process after a relatively short time, which means that any Warp-capable voidship must have new psyker "batteries" to replace the old at a consistent pace.»
Then a Gellar field is totally useless against a demon which has obtained a physical body, like it happens when a space marine is possessed and above all does the Empire has so many psykers to protect all its planets of the 24/7?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/14 15:07:57


If the Imperial Truth were right, the Gods of Chaos shouldn't exist, but this means that they shouldn't had been able to corrupt Horus, so his heresy shouldn't had happened. But because the Horus Heresy happened, the Gods exist, then the Emperor of Mankind is truly our God, so he is infallible and this prove that the Imperial Truth is true. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 greatbigtree wrote:
Lulz... they should weaponize void shields and put them on missiles / torpedoes.
Fire the weapon, delay activation of device by a few seconds to clear the hull, and then have a ballistic void device that flies through space, gobbling up reality as it goes and dumping it into the warp.
Void shields don't gobble up reality, they appear to absorb incoming energy into huge banks of capacitors and then bleed it off into another dimension.
   
Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Everyone so far has hit the main points. The energy both in terms of literal and psykers required to make a planetary gellar field impossible to function. The other thing to consider is that even a flicker in a gellar field is enough to imperil a ship. On a planetary scale, the gellar field simply would be too unreliable to make it worth the investment.

On the other hand, it would be an interesting concept to explore further for a particularly important "gateway" world on stable warp path through the Great Rift. It could add a whole new element to the concept of a fortress world. Perhaps turning the gellar field on temporarily during a demonic incursion to take some of the momentum out of their assault, even if localized around important fortress sites. It has been a component of the lore that a demon potentially can be permanently slain if it can be cut off entirely from the warp before it is killed in the real world. Just spit-balling ideas at this point, though.

Gork and Mork help me: 4k+ Orks 3k+ Guard 3k+ Ironhands 3k+ Chaos Marines 2k+ Daemons 4k+ Necrons 4k+ Genestealer cult and Tyranids 2500k Dark Eldar 
   
Made in at
Been Around the Block




 greatbigtree wrote:
Lulz... they should weaponize void shields and put them on missiles / torpedoes.

Fire the weapon, delay activation of device by a few seconds to clear the hull, and then have a ballistic void device that flies through space, gobbling up reality as it goes and dumping it into the warp.

Kind of like Star Trek... you could just teleport torpedoes into enemy ships and kablamo!


I mean that’s basically what vortex missiles/torpedos are...
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

A.T. wrote:
 greatbigtree wrote:
Lulz... they should weaponize void shields and put them on missiles / torpedoes.
Fire the weapon, delay activation of device by a few seconds to clear the hull, and then have a ballistic void device that flies through space, gobbling up reality as it goes and dumping it into the warp.
Void shields don't gobble up reality, they appear to absorb incoming energy into huge banks of capacitors and then bleed it off into another dimension.


Well, that’s way less fun than a reality-eating bubble, but if that’s how it works I guess I can’t tell fictional characters they’re doing it wrong.
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




 Grumblewartz wrote:
[…]
On the other hand, it would be an interesting concept to explore further for a particularly important "gateway" world on stable warp path through the Great Rift.
[…]


[MODE_OT_ON]
Its funny because I'm actually working on a fan-fiction novel where that idea plays an important role; for now I don't want give more details.
[MODE_OT_OFF]

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/14 18:14:23


If the Imperial Truth were right, the Gods of Chaos shouldn't exist, but this means that they shouldn't had been able to corrupt Horus, so his heresy shouldn't had happened. But because the Horus Heresy happened, the Gods exist, then the Emperor of Mankind is truly our God, so he is infallible and this prove that the Imperial Truth is true. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Reading the replies in this thread makes me wonder if the golden throne is in fact a planet-wide Gellar field generator. Perhaps the holy earth was sucked inside the warp when Magnus the red accidentally blew up the emperor's web way project and from that point, a fake sense of stable reality has been kept thanks to this field. Perhaps the scar in the reality fabric
is even wider than just the holy earth.

That would explain why the golden throne requires every day the sacrifice of thousands of psykers.

Ah! theories theories...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/15 14:18:16


 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




I think it is more correct to say what Games Workshop already says: the Golden Throne is the interface among the Emperor and the Astronomican, which is the galactic beacon used by the human navigators to guide the Imperial spaceships while they travel in the Immaterium.
The sacrifice of thousands of psykers every years is became necessary due to the consequences of the "Folly of Magnus":

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/15 14:45:43


If the Imperial Truth were right, the Gods of Chaos shouldn't exist, but this means that they shouldn't had been able to corrupt Horus, so his heresy shouldn't had happened. But because the Horus Heresy happened, the Gods exist, then the Emperor of Mankind is truly our God, so he is infallible and this prove that the Imperial Truth is true. 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

psipso wrote:
Reading the replies in this thread makes me wonder if the golden throne is in fact a planet-wide Gellar field generator. Perhaps the holy earth was sucked inside the warp when Magnus the red accidentally blew up the emperor's web way project and from that point, a fake sense of stable reality has been kept thanks to this field. Perhaps the scar in the reality fabric
is even wider than just the holy earth.

That would explain why the golden throne requires every day the sacrifice of thousands of psykers.

Ah! theories theories...


The purpose of the Golden Throne is already covered in the fluff.
It's a giant psychic lighthouse that uses the residual psychic might of the Emperor's corpse to light the way for star ships. The Emperor doesn't have enough juice to do it himself so they have to sacrifice thousands of psykers to him to keep the light going.
It's why the Shadow in the Warp is such a terrifying effect; it blocks out the Emperor's light, leaving ships effectively blind and stranded.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/18 01:30:55


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Much like how it's very dangerous to enter the warp while in a gravity well of a planet, I assume Gellar fields also don't like gravity wells.

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