Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So the new awesome giants made me remember that AOS exists, and it also made me remember what made me abandon my last attempt top get into this game. I was building a Free People army and had a number of models under construction, militia, mounted general etc. The cities of Sigmar book just squatted bunch of them, leaving my newly constructed models without rules.

Now there is Legends, but they're there not there either. Is the situation still really this? That there simply are bunch of old units that currently have no rule support at all, not even for some sort of casual non-competitive gaming? I understand that they don't want to have rules for units that they no longer make models for in the books they sell, but I though that the whole bloody point of Legends was that such units could go there...

Cities was sort of a patch over battletome made because someone in GW was passionate and did the work. So I figure they were likely going to just ad-hock retire it all to legends then Cities came along and they abandoned those plans and no one really remembered or pressured them to move the handful of removed models over to legends.

Chances are you can hunt around and find their AoS rules before they were put into cities - so the 1.0 warscroll rules and such.

 Overread wrote:
Cities was sort of a patch over battletome made because someone in GW was passionate and did the work. So I figure they were likely going to just ad-hock retire it all to legends then Cities came along and they abandoned those plans and no one really remembered or pressured them to move the handful of removed models over to legends.

Chances are you can hunt around and find their AoS rules before they were put into cities - so the 1.0 warscroll rules and such.

Yeah, I'm sure I have the old rules somewhere, but those technically are no longer legal, right? I'm not sure it would be a huge issue in a casual game, but this is still a bit of a mess and makes me rather reluctant to get invested in the game as it seems that entire units can just become completely obsolete at any moment.

Generally speaking legends is already considered by many to be "outside" of normal rules anyway. So whilst they might be out of date, they'd be the last legal rules for those models. Considering that its likely just friendly matches you'd be having with them anyway its likely good enough for most gamers to use them.

I edited this post cause it looks like i defended a corporation. I apologize.

To be fair until the end of the Old World GW hadn't really removed a main studio army from the game in as whole a fashion as they did with removing tombkings and bretonnia and everything else.

Sure they've done odd things like add Assassin's as an army in 40K and then remove them, but the actual models just shifted back to what they were before - optional addons for a main army.


Heck we even call is "Squatting" because that was the last time GW really did that - esp with 40K (I'm aware Old World gained and lost things like Dogs of War and Kislieve)

 Overread wrote:
To be fair until the end of the Old World GW hadn't really removed a main studio army from the game in as whole a fashion as they did with removing tombkings and bretonnia and everything else.

Sure they've done odd things like add Assassin's as an army in 40K and then remove them, but the actual models just shifted back to what they were before - optional addons for a main army.


Heck we even call is "Squatting" because that was the last time GW really did that - esp with 40K (I'm aware Old World gained and lost things like Dogs of War and Kislieve)

What makes this bizarre to me that they actually have the Legends, and there are rules for units that didn't even appear in any printed AOS book there, but these units that were actually part of AOS for years get no such legacy support...

 Crimson wrote:

 Overread wrote:
To be fair until the end of the Old World GW hadn't really removed a main studio army from the game in as whole a fashion as they did with removing tombkings and bretonnia and everything else.

Sure they've done odd things like add Assassin's as an army in 40K and then remove them, but the actual models just shifted back to what they were before - optional addons for a main army.


Heck we even call is "Squatting" because that was the last time GW really did that - esp with 40K (I'm aware Old World gained and lost things like Dogs of War and Kislieve)

What makes this bizarre to me that they actually have the Legends, and there are rules for units that didn't even appear in any printed AOS book there, but these units that were actually part of AOS for years get no such legacy support...

What units were you building? Most can be used as count as/proxy no problem. A lot of people with glade guard use them as shadow warriors, for example.

 Crimson wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Cities was sort of a patch over battletome made because someone in GW was passionate and did the work. So I figure they were likely going to just ad-hock retire it all to legends then Cities came along and they abandoned those plans and no one really remembered or pressured them to move the handful of removed models over to legends.

Chances are you can hunt around and find their AoS rules before they were put into cities - so the 1.0 warscroll rules and such.

Yeah, I'm sure I have the old rules somewhere, but those technically are no longer legal, right? I'm not sure it would be a huge issue in a casual game, but this is still a bit of a mess and makes me rather reluctant to get invested in the game as it seems that entire units can just become completely obsolete at any moment.

What's "legal" depends upon the people you play with. If they're good with Legends they shouldn't have any issue with you pulling the stats for a horse mounted Cities general from the Grand Alliance: Order book.

On you're reluctance.... Welcome to the world of GW games. AoS or 40k, units going obsolete is a real thing. Always has been. And Lord have mercy on you if you discover you like any of their side games - they'll run something like say, Necromunda, for a few years & then "Poof". Gone, dropped. Stays gone for years. Then they'll reboot it. Wash rinse repeat.

them completely dropping a line is better for your finances and the health of the community invested in that game than selectively dropping certain armies and units are.

When GW full drops a line, it usually leaves it open for the community to run with it. Necromunda never died. Neither did Blood Bowl. Or Mordheim.

It's harder when the models are too hard to get good proxies for though.

stratigo wrote:
them completely dropping a line is better for your finances and the health of the community invested in that game than selectively dropping certain armies and units are.

When GW full drops a line, it usually leaves it open for the community to run with it. Necromunda never died. Neither did Blood Bowl. Or Mordheim.

It's harder when the models are too hard to get good proxies for though.

I disagree. The community can do whatever it wants when GW runs a line and when GW cancels a line. GW running the line or not doesn't actually prevent the community doing its own thing.
However when GW stops all the marketing stops too. So a game that has a very strong community with key organisations/leaders who are wiling and able to step up to organise things can survive, for a time. Bloodbowl managed it really rather well, but was still not heavily marketed until 3rd parties took a chance and made their own models; marketing and game. Even then its popularity was more niche than when GW ran it.

Thing is Necromunda and Mordheim are basically dead in terms of new customers. You get a few, but really not many. As a result its a game where if its strong in your area and those players keep hanging around it will survive, but its unlikely to build to the momentum of a proper game with a growing playerbase. It will nearly always have a net loss playerbase.

GW rarely drops whole armies, AoS is a massive exception on so many fronts to GW's normal mode of operation. Heck prior to AoS and the mas dropping/fragmenting/mess of armies the last time we'd seen a full main studio army dropped was Squats. We'd seen a few like Assassins shift around from being addons to an Imperial army to being their own army to being addons again, but mostly that's a model count and organising system rather than outright dropping the models.