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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





So the tomb king (is it?) and the void dragon shard are both being released for necrons and these are big, and I assume, powerful models/characters. My understanding is that they will rival or be better than Robby guilliman.


So do you think all armies are getting a big dude for their army? I think this is what people are calling hero hammer? I suppose great unclean one and keeper of secrets etc have always existed for demons.

Can RG be taken for any SM army??

Who would each army have, some armies have primarchs but I doubt Horus would come back for BL.

Also as these models are so powerful I assume they have a big points cost so is it only worth taking them on a 2500+ point game?
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





Hero Hammer actually referred to a previous edition where all the non characters were chaff to chew through with your character. You basically threw a character into a full squad or more at a time and watched them ginsu.

Bobby G CAN be taken by any IMPERIUM army but only really helps Ultramarines.

To answer your question yes, I believe every faction (or almost every) is going to get a Fortification, and a Supreme Commander of some kind (i.e. LOW or Supreme Commander keyword model).

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in de
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin




Black Legion/ CSM has Abaddon, he's the size of Guilliman and successor of Horus. Orks have Ghazgkull. Eldar need a new Avatar since at least 10 years. Dark Eldar should get Vect. Half the range of Tyranids are big monsters. Tau have their big suits, I guess they could release Farsight in one. Admech has Cawl, though Guilliman can really be the Big hero of any Imperium faction, at least fluffwize.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

"Supreme Commander" is a keyword that we know is coming but have not seen in play yet.
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

"Hero Hammer" usually refers all the way back to 2nd edition, when characters were what made or broke your army and once they made it into combat, squads were typically little more than fodder for super-choppy characters to mince up in short order. We're shifting a little back towards that, I reckon, but nowhere near as much as it was back then.

I think it's fair to say most if not all factions are going to get a big-ger something, even if they're not all going to be Silent King or C'tan sized. Black Legion 99% won't get Horus, but they managed to make Abaddon considerably bigger than even the Terminator Lord model. Others are getting sized up via imaginative base setups that elevate them, for instance Mephiston standing on his rock, or Celestine's floaty paper rolls.

mrFickle wrote:
Can RG be taken for any SM army??

Technically, yes, thanks to how the keywords work - but you won't get Ultramarine-specific bonuses if the rest of the army isn't Ultramarines too. That goes for any cross-Chapter special character shenanigans. Worth noting that one of his special rules boosts "Imperium" units, but another boosts only "Ultramarines" specifically.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





West Virginia

Abbadon for Black Legion Chaos Space Marines.
The Silent King for Necrons.
Mortarion for Death Guard.
Magnus for Thousand Sons.
Guilliman for Ultramarines Space Marines.
Ghazghkull for Orks.
Cawl for AdMech.

Did I miss any? Their numbers are definitely growing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/13 16:36:45


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Kanluwen wrote:
"Supreme Commander" is a keyword that we know is coming but have not seen in play yet.

Szarekh has the SUPREME COMMANDER keyword.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 Ghaz wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
"Supreme Commander" is a keyword that we know is coming but have not seen in play yet.

Szarekh has the SUPREME COMMANDER keyword.

So he's our first one? Awesome!
   
Made in us
Average Orc Boy



Duluth

If i had to guess the only factions that can't/won't get one that is soley for them is Adeptus Custodes, Grey Knights and Sisters. The only thing Custodes could get that would make sense would be Big E himself as that will never happen unless its some Avatar of big E then idk what they could do as they only really have like 6 named characters? Grey Knights ALREADY have their big guy and he's just a Hero (Kaldor Draigo) they could get 1 other dude but he's in no way a "Supreme Commander". And Sisters are essentially just women in armor , as they already have Celestine (an little immortal being thats died 100 times already) then i dont see what else.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




For the factions you just mentioned + Imperial Guard I can see an Inquisitor or Warmaster being released as a Supreme Commander.

The character would be less on a combat side, even if he/she would have some very exotic and powerful wargear. The real power would come from obscene buffs and shenanigans.

I'm thinking Inquisitor Coteaz 5th edition but dialed up to 11.
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Bit of an odd shout but I could see a resculpted huron being an alternative supreme commander for csm, even if he isn't "big guy" status stat wise
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Rahdok wrote:
Grey Knights ALREADY have their big guy and he's just a Hero (Kaldor Draigo)...

Who could gain the SUPREME COMMANDER keyword once their codex is updated.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/13 16:58:23


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




The deck of the Widower

Commander Shadowsun is Supreme Commander for Tau and has rules to back it up.

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I struggle with abandon being equal to a primarch without some more chaos juice. Is Ghaz now on a par with RG?

I thought the supreme commander key word was being introduced with others so you could escalate a home brew chapters captain to the same level as azreal for the dark angels, as an example.

Or do you think they won’t necessarily have a model ineacha rly that can rival the likes of RG and tomb king
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Are you holding out for a hero, mrFickle?

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Dysartes wrote:
Are you holding out for a hero, mrFickle?


Just someone who can do this presentation for me
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine





Mississippi

I expect we'll see some regular space marines gain the supreme commander keyword, especially named characters of note.

For example, I expect Commander Dante will get it in the new Blood Angels supplement, as will Master Azrael in the new Dark Angels supplement and Logan Grimnar in the Space Wolves supplement.

Other named characters might get it, such as Eldrad Ulthran from the Eldar codex. Maybe the Avatar of Khaine as well? Who knows.

I'll be curious to see what does get it as the new books release.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.  
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

I wouldn't bet on that, since Shrike hasn't gotten it and I do not believe Marneus Calgar has either.

Eldrad and the Avatar also aren't legendary commanders of note.
   
Made in ie
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





 Kanluwen wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
"Supreme Commander" is a keyword that we know is coming but have not seen in play yet.

Szarekh has the SUPREME COMMANDER keyword.

So he's our first one? Awesome!


Only one ever. Having a second supreme commander available would be a contradiction in terms.



https://mobile.twitter.com/SewerWatch 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 Sim-Life wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
"Supreme Commander" is a keyword that we know is coming but have not seen in play yet.

Szarekh has the SUPREME COMMANDER keyword.

So he's our first one? Awesome!


Only one ever. Having a second supreme commander available would be a contradiction in terms.

Not really?

Szarekh is our first example of the Supreme Commander keyword. We can pretty well theorize that more will be coming for other factions, where it can apply.
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

Rahdok wrote:
And Sisters are essentially just women in armor , as they already have Celestine (an little immortal being thats died 100 times already) then i dont see what else.

You appear to be forgetting both the Supreme Procession of Buffy Funeral Goodness, and the Flying Pulpit of Extreme Flamy Heretic Burning.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine





Mississippi

 Kanluwen wrote:
I wouldn't bet on that, since Shrike hasn't gotten it and I do not believe Marneus Calgar has either.

Eldrad and the Avatar also aren't legendary commanders of note.


Marneus Calgar won't because there's Guilliman in the same list, I don't expect each faction (Ultramarines in this instance) will have more than one, possibly two total Supreme Commanders. Shrike isn't a supreme commander because he hasn't been around long enough, lore wise I mean, to justify the title.

Dante, Logan Grimnar and Azrael have all been leading their chapters long enough, especially Dante, and have sufficient tactical acumen to justify having the title I think. Of course that's just my own speculation based on my opinion, so I'm happy to say I could be very wrong about this.

Eldrad is one of the longest running characters in the Eldar lore. I'm not saying he'll get it, but I believe he's probably a candidate. The avatar is more of a "eh, maybe?" guess. It's literally the physical avatar of one of the eldar gods and I would think that it would certainly be capable of being named a supreme commander. Again happy to say I'm wrong on it too and we'll all see when the time comes.

Just looking at current models/options that are in my opinion, for lack of a better term, front runners for the title for at least a few factions.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.  
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Ghaz wrote:
Rahdok wrote:
Grey Knights ALREADY have their big guy and he's just a Hero (Kaldor Draigo)...

Who could gain the SUPREME COMMANDER keyword once their codex is updated.


Draigo in Dreadknight kit. Lord of War, SUPREME COMMANDER, even bigger and fancier than the normal one!

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I think the supreme commander can only be given to one character in a custom chapter, and one master apothecary and one master librarian and one master chaplain.

The supreme commander keyword aside I was more wondering if each army is going to get a unit that is as powerful as RG or the new necrons. Will that parallel exist across all armies
   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone




mrFickle wrote:
I think the supreme commander can only be given to one character in a custom chapter, and one master apothecary and one master librarian and one master chaplain.

Huh? Are you referring to "Chapter Master" here? No one can "be given" the supreme commander keyword currently - Right now only the Silent King has the keyword.


The supreme commander keyword aside I was more wondering if each army is going to get a unit that is as powerful as RG or the new necrons. Will that parallel exist across all armies


Maybe? There's plenty of big faction-leader type models out there and GW certainly really seems to be high on making "Centerpiece Models" these days. But like many things they'll be distracted by the next next big thing before it proliferates to all armies.

So SUPREME COMMANDER as a keyword and the Supreme Command detachment aren't something I expect to see a ton of. There's two main use cases as I see it:
Allowing you to take a fancy Lord-of-War character without costing additional detachment CP (G-man, Silent King, Magnus/Morty)
Allowing a sub-faction that has no/few special characters of its own to take one of the over-all faction's bigger characters. So a more universal version of how you can take Shadowsun in a Borkan-sept army right now. Models like Cawl, Gaz, and the aforementioned Shadowsun are the kinds of things I'd expect it on.

I would not expect the keyword to show up on random Marine named characters like Dante or Kaldor. It wouldn't really do that much for them or their armies.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

rbstr wrote:
I would not expect the keyword to show up on random Marine named characters like Dante or Kaldor. It wouldn't really do that much for them or their armies.

As the Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights the fluff fits for him to have the SUPREME COMMANDER keyword, regardless of whether he would gain any use of the keyword.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
I wouldn't bet on that, since Shrike hasn't gotten it and I do not believe Marneus Calgar has either.

Eldrad and the Avatar also aren't legendary commanders of note.


Marneus Calgar won't because there's Guilliman in the same list, I don't expect each faction (Ultramarines in this instance) will have more than one, possibly two total Supreme Commanders. Shrike isn't a supreme commander because he hasn't been around long enough, lore wise I mean, to justify the title.

Shrike's been around plenty long enough, in terms of both lore and being a profile(4th edition Codex is when he got added).

And again, Supreme Commander is a new keyword not just a Detachment type. It's for HQs or Lords of War that have the Primarch(Guilliman only thus far), Daemon Primarch(Magnus and Mortarion), or Supreme Commander(Szarekh) keywords.
There's no real issue with Calgar potentially being able to get the Supreme Commander keyword. It's not like you can double-dip anyways with it. It's a separate Detachment that allows for you to take one model and make it your warlord to get refunded Command Points.
Additionally, Eldrad isn't a commander. He's a Seer. Prince Yriel, Autarchs, or any of the Phoenix Lords would be the 'best fit' Supreme Commanders.

The 'real' reason we likely haven't seen Shrike or Calgar get it is because they don't want to mess around with those supplements just yet.
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

Supreme Commander?

Sounds like a job for Creed.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

If it's not just Trazyn with a handpuppet, I will be sad.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Ghaz wrote:
Rahdok wrote:
Grey Knights ALREADY have their big guy and he's just a Hero (Kaldor Draigo)...

Who could gain the SUPREME COMMANDER keyword once their codex is updated.


completely unnesscary. the supreme commander keyword is really only needed for 2 thigns, the first is a unit that is a LOW the second is someone who can command across faction types

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
 
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