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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Now that the FAQ is out for point values and I've...well, still not been able to play :( But I have watched more streamed games, so here is my updated crack at a Salamanders list.

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Salamanders) [97 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++
Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

+ HQ +
Captain on Bike [6 PL, -1CP, 110pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Forge Master, Power fist, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Vulkan's Sigil
Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, -1CP, 140pts]: 3. Exhortation of Rage, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Wise Orator

+ Troops +
Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. Incursor Sergeant
Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant
Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power fist
Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

+ Elites +
Aggressor Squad [6 PL, 120pts]: 2x Flamestorm Gauntlets, 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant
Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 225pts]: 4x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant
. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher
Company Veterans [3 PL, 50pts]
. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw
. Veteran Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield
Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, -1CP, 95pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Rites of War, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Exemplar of the Promethean Creed, The Vox Espiritum, Warlord
Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 140pts]: Multi-melta
. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter

+ Fast Attack +
Attack Bike Squad [2 PL, 55pts]
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
Attack Bike Squad [2 PL, 55pts]
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
Inceptor Squad [12 PL, 300pts]: 5x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator x2

+ Heavy Support +
Eradicator Squad [6 PL, 140pts]: Heavy melta rifle
. Eradicator
. Eradicator Sgt
. Eradicator with MM: Multi-melta
Whirlwind [7 PL, 130pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Whirlwind castellan launcher

++ Total: [97 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++

I'm sure it's not tourney winning maximized, but I'm still aiming for pretty strong toolboxy while working in a few of the units that I own and like. It's got a lot of ob sec bodies, some scout deployment, some fast movers, a 2man action monkey/bodyguard unit, and a center ball that can shoot and melee pretty well.

edit: Oh, also, since it seems a rather uncommon pick, I figured I'd mention my thought behind the Vulkan's Sigil: Since I did not go a bunch of Bladeguard like the common central Marine ball and am not WS I traded a fair bit of melee power for the Aggressor shooting. So, with the Sigil + Chaplain I can get 1 crucial combat phase where the entire center is +1A to go with +1 to wound, and rerolls to hit. That seemed a better threat than giving the Captain Teeth or Burning Blade.

My main 2 internal debates were:
1. Including the 2 vehicles. Obviously they can die to AT fire pretty fast. But, then I figured that if I did not put any tanks in, those same AT shots would just hit 40pt T5 gravis guys instead, which isn't any better.
2. I want a Librarian for that 5+ invulnerable, but they are just so expensive. You can only add so many force multipliers before you don't have enough forces to multiply.

Thoughts or suggestions?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/11/18 09:08:48


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Oh dang, the Relic Contemptor. Maybe not really worth relying on it with the upcoming FW overhaul, but that'd be way better than a Venerable. (...Or is it? I guess it doesn't have Duty Eternal because it's not updated yet).

If I remove the 2 Venerables and replace with 1 Relic Contemptor I'm cutting almost the entire 100pts I needed.
   
Made in us
Plastictrees






Salem, MA

I was theoryhammering about the choice between terminators and aggressors. It seems likely in a tournament or all-comers setting that nearly every space marine army will have one or maybe two units of eradicators,

So I'm suspecting that probably terminators are better.

They don't have the firepower of aggressors, but when you think about what even 3 eradicators would do to an aggressor unit, in spite of cover, and how impossible it is to keep them far enough from the edge that eradicators wouldn't get a shot...

At least terminators would get an invulnerable save, and a pretty decent one if they're TH & SS terminators.

"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




For sure. I'm strongly considering 5-6 assault termies in that slot, I just have a hard time giving up shooting.

My original list draft had a Librarian to supply the Aggressor blob with 5++ too and I regret having to remove it, but it did seem like the easiest cut.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I updated my list idea, now with exact points and cps.

Guess that is a no on the Relic Contemptor idea after seeing the Forgeworld preview.
   
Made in hk
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




I would recommend you put the two Attack Bike into one squad. So if your opponent killed one but failed to kill the other, your Apothecary could bring the dead one back. Also, get Heavy Melta Rifle on those Eradicators, the 2 extra dmg is worth for the -1 to hit penalty on the move, and you can use Steady Advance stratagem on them.

I think Salamander Libby is great since their psychic power contains many good buff capabilities. In addition, don't worry too much in the possibility that your opponent firing a few lascannon, bright lance, and the like into your Gravis armor units, that is the moment for "Transhuman physiology".
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Hmm, I do like that Apothecary res potential and would free up a FA slot in case I wanted to add something like Outriders back in. Though it does remove 1 cheap option for quarter grabbing/blocking if they have to move together.

Swapping to the heavy melta rifles does seem a good idea since Salamanders can count as stationary for 1cp instead of 2.
edit: Oh drat, forgot they cost slightly more. Not that it isn't a good idea, but now I need to free up 10pts and I really only had the 5 to spare from the HK on the Whirlwind that hopefully wouldn't ever have LOS to fire it.
edit2: Wait, I just realized I had tossed a storm shield on the Captain and that is probably unnecessary. I'd have liked it, but only changing 3+ to 2+ on a guy with T7 and a 4++ already probably isn't as good a use of 10 pts as the upgraded meltas.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/17 20:28:31


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




I'd recommend putting Rites of War and Never Give up on the Captain and Chaplain. That gives you two mobile ObSec bubbles. If gou go that route, you can drop a troop squad and beef up or add other units.

For the Chaplain, I'm not sold on Exhortation of Rage as Salamanders can get +1 to wound for a 1CP strat instead. I'd consider losing the Master of Sanctity upgrade on him and spending points elsewhere. Mantra of Strength could also be useful since he's faster than most of your army so may be more useful going off on his own occasionally.

I agree with Neophyte2012 about putting the Attack Bikes in one squad. In addition to the healing and resurrection, it also lets you make better use of some stratagems (and Never Give Up if you go that route). If you can add a third, you could also provide some character screening that can keep up with your HQs, at least for a volley or two.

If you have the models for it, I would make the flamestorm Aggressor squad the larger one. You want to give them the best chance of survival as they'll do the most damage, and more guys helps with that.

If you can, I would also add more Veterans and take them as Vanguard instead. They're cheaper per model and again a larger squad lets you increase survivability and stratagem efficiency. Alternately, jump pack Vanguard would be 1 point more per model, but would let them keep up with the Chaplain and/or Captain.

All in all I think there's a lot to like about the list. I'd definitely be curious to hear how it fares for you when you get a chance to try it out.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Thanks for the feedback.

I see what you mean on the Exhortation of Rage, maybe another litany would make more sense. Dropping the Master of Sanctity though...It's expensive, but that's also about the Wise Orator bonuses. (Now that I'm looking at my list, I paid the cp for the extra warlord trait, but I forgot to mark him as having Wise Orator). If not getting the trait I def wouldn't pay for the Master upgrade.

I don't have a 3rd attack bike, I do have jump VVs, giving a mobile character screen is a cool idea.

I feel like as listed, Rites of War can be on the Apothecary because all the Aggressors in midfield get obsec and then the +3" range relic boosts the ob sec aura too and most of the noncentral units are troops. But yeah, if I were to drop a troop unit to make room for more bikes/VVs, swapping warlord to the Captain and putting Rites on him to move with the fast units would make a lot of sense.

Sadly I currently have 0 flamestorms, I glued all of mine as bolters back in early 8th. I don't think the bolter ones compare that badly, even as Salamanders, but I definitely am hoping they cost the same as flamers next update as them losing the double shot seriously hurts the bolter variant. TBH these 5 guys could likely be Bladeguard or Terminators (and I own both), but my Aggressors are painted and I like the idea of having some shooting to threaten units that don't want to close or are too numerous.

edit: fixed the original list to add Wise Orator and gave the Eradicators the heavy gun.
I'll have to think more tomorrow on what I'd remove if I were to put in the bikes/VVs. The Incursors maybe? I want to keep the Infiltrators for the denial bubble option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a variant with most of your suggestions, I dropped the 5 Incursors, 2 Vets, and the MoS, for another Attack Bike and 5 VVs:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Salamanders) [97 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++
Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

+ HQ +
Captain on Bike [6 PL, -1CP, 100pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Forge Master, Rites of War, Stratagem: Exemplar of the Promethean Creed, Teeth of Terra, Warlord

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [6 PL, 115pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Litany of Hate, Vulkan's Sigil

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power fist

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [6 PL, 120pts]: 2x Flamestorm Gauntlets, 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant

Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 225pts]: 4x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant
. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, -1CP, 95pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 135pts]: Jump Pack
. Space Marine Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw
. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw
. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw
. Veteran Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Power fist

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 140pts]: Multi-melta
. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 165pts]
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

Inceptor Squad [12 PL, 300pts]: 5x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator x2

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad [6 PL, 140pts]: Heavy melta rifle
. Eradicator
. Eradicator Sgt
. Eradicator with MM: Multi-melta

Whirlwind [7 PL, 130pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Whirlwind castellan launcher

++ Total: [97 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

Overall, I mostly like it more and it saves me buying Incursors, though I need the 3rd bike. Losing MoS is rough, but yeah it was super expensive. I also gave up the Vox Espiritum on the Apothecary since no more Rites boosting as well. Might put that back, will have to see once I finally get to playtest. I don't like being tied to only 3" radius and there is that Deathwatch power to -3" range. But then if I have to be 3" to resurrect anyways, maybe I won't miss it. I also didn't pay to buy Never Give Up as well, I'm thinking it'd be fairly rare to wish I had both.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/18 20:49:35


 
   
 
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