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Hey gang -

So we just finished a great game yesterday between my Steel Legion and his Blood Angels. The game was a 1K Incursion RanSack Battle. Several questions came up and we needed clarification:

1) When tanks or other vehicles are destroyed or explode? Do you remove them off the table? We both felt it was unrealistic to remove a vehicle if it destroyed and decided to leave them as wreckage with terrain rules.
Thoughts on this?

2) When disembarking troops from a Chimera or Rhino, I seem to remember back in the day (2nd-3rd edition) that units deploy out of the deployment hatch ( usually in the back). Is this still true, we scanned the rule book and could not pinpoint any verbage about this. It appears you just put them around the vehicle up to 3 inches.

3) When a vehicle assaults a unit of infantry, how is this sorted out? In this case, I had a Leman Russ with a WS 6+. So when the tank charges, the question came up of how does it actually attack and with what? Is it using it's power/weight to try to crush the marines? Does it use it's Battle Canon to try to smash them? The reason I ask is to clarify how many attacks does the tank get?

4) No Tank Shock? Seems odd. Thoughts on this.

5) Is Objective Secure distance 3"? Also, I understand that if both have the capability to claim it, it boils down to model count? For example, if a Dreadnaught and a unit of 10 Infantrymen are surrounding an objective, the guardsmen hold the objective??

6) In terms of CPs, you can buy as many strategems you want? So, I could purchase say 2-3 Strategems whenever I like provided the the rules says so?

7) Can I buy the same strategems 2x, 3x, etc in my Command phase?

7) Finally, does it seem odd that if you target a unit behind an obstacle and you could only see one model from that unit, the entire targeted unit will take damage from shooting? He had his BA Intercessors behind a building, I fired with a unit of Guardsmen because I had LOS on only 1 BA. I was lucky and score several wounds with my rifles. So he removed 1 model and another took one wound. However, the one that took one wound was not visible to me. Seems odd, but the rules appeared to state it was correct. Thoughts?

Thank you for your time!

 Blastum wrote:
Hey gang -

So we just finished a great game yesterday between my Steel Legion and his Blood Angels. The game was a 1K Incursion RanSack Battle. Several questions came up and we needed clarification:

1) When tanks or other vehicles are destroyed or explode? Do you remove them off the table? We both felt it was unrealistic to remove a vehicle if it destroyed and decided to leave them as wreckage with terrain rules.
Thoughts on this?

You remove them from the table like you would any other model that reaches 0 wounds. You and your opponent reaching an agreement on a house rule to keep the vehicles on board as wrecks is fine, though. It would be nice to see that happen as a more general rule, but I don't see it happening now.

 Blastum wrote:
2) When disembarking troops from a Chimera or Rhino, I seem to remember back in the day (2nd-3rd edition) that units deploy out of the deployment hatch ( usually in the back). Is this still true, we scanned the rule book and could not pinpoint any verbage about this. It appears you just put them around the vehicle up to 3 inches.

Yes, just put them around the vehicle up to 3 inches now. They don't require you to be near the hatch.

 Blastum wrote:
3) When a vehicle assaults a unit of infantry, how is this sorted out? In this case, I had a Leman Russ with a WS 6+. So when the tank charges, the question came up of how does it actually attack and with what? Is it using it's power/weight to try to crush the marines? Does it use it's Battle Canon to try to smash them? The reason I ask is to clarify how many attacks does the tank get?

Mechanically it's handled like any other model/unit charging another unit. It could be crushing hapless meat puppets under its treads or thwacking something with the battle cannon (say, trying to kneecap a Chaos Knight that way), but mechanically just follow normal rules for assaults. The vehicles are all given a strength as well as a weapon skill for resolving this.

 Blastum wrote:
4) No Tank Shock? Seems odd. Thoughts on this.

They got rid of tank shock because you have the vehicle directly assaulting other units, which the tank shock had been a substitute for before.

 Blastum wrote:
5) Is Objective Secure distance 3"? Also, I understand that if both have the capability to claim it, it boils down to model count? For example, if a Dreadnaught and a unit of 10 Infantrymen are surrounding an objective, the guardsmen hold the objective??

If both have Objective Secure it comes down to total model count on each side near the objective, not just the number of models with Objective Secured (something to keep in mind).

 Blastum wrote:
6) In terms of CPs, you can buy as many strategems you want? So, I could purchase say 2-3 Strategems whenever I like provided the the rules says so?

Provided you follow normal restrictions you can buy as many stratagems as your points allow. The stratagems themselves might have restrictions on how many times you can use it.

 Blastum wrote:
7) Can I buy the same strategems 2x, 3x, etc in my Command phase?

When you're in a phase you can only a stratagem once that phase. It's only when you're not in a phase (say, at the start of the battle before turn one) that you can use a stratagem more than once.

 Blastum wrote:
7) Finally, does it seem odd that if you target a unit behind an obstacle and you could only see one model from that unit, the entire targeted unit will take damage from shooting? He had his BA Intercessors behind a building, I fired with a unit of Guardsmen because I had LOS on only 1 BA. I was lucky and score several wounds with my rifles. So he removed 1 model and another took one wound. However, the one that took one wound was not visible to me. Seems odd, but the rules appeared to state it was correct. Thoughts?

Thank you for your time!

The rule wasn't quite set up to mirror reality, but yes, you can damage an entire unit if you can see some of the models and they were in line of sight at the time of measuring for that, even if after some more the rest are out of line of sight or out of range at that time. That said, if a unit is partially in cover and models are removed through casualty removal, if the person hits a point where all the models are in cover, then for the rest of his saves he counts as in cover.

 Blastum wrote:
Hey gang -

So we just finished a great game yesterday between my Steel Legion and his Blood Angels. The game was a 1K Incursion RanSack Battle. Several questions came up and we needed clarification:

1) When tanks or other vehicles are destroyed or explode? Do you remove them off the table? We both felt it was unrealistic to remove a vehicle if it destroyed and decided to leave them as wreckage with terrain rules.
Thoughts on this?

2) When disembarking troops from a Chimera or Rhino, I seem to remember back in the day (2nd-3rd edition) that units deploy out of the deployment hatch ( usually in the back). Is this still true, we scanned the rule book and could not pinpoint any verbage about this. It appears you just put them around the vehicle up to 3 inches.

3) When a vehicle assaults a unit of infantry, how is this sorted out? In this case, I had a Leman Russ with a WS 6+. So when the tank charges, the question came up of how does it actually attack and with what? Is it using it's power/weight to try to crush the marines? Does it use it's Battle Canon to try to smash them? The reason I ask is to clarify how many attacks does the tank get?

4) No Tank Shock? Seems odd. Thoughts on this.

5) Is Objective Secure distance 3"? Also, I understand that if both have the capability to claim it, it boils down to model count? For example, if a Dreadnaught and a unit of 10 Infantrymen are surrounding an objective, the guardsmen hold the objective??

6) In terms of CPs, you can buy as many strategems you want? So, I could purchase say 2-3 Strategems whenever I like provided the the rules says so?

7) Can I buy the same strategems 2x, 3x, etc in my Command phase?

7) Finally, does it seem odd that if you target a unit behind an obstacle and you could only see one model from that unit, the entire targeted unit will take damage from shooting? He had his BA Intercessors behind a building, I fired with a unit of Guardsmen because I had LOS on only 1 BA. I was lucky and score several wounds with my rifles. So he removed 1 model and another took one wound. However, the one that took one wound was not visible to me. Seems odd, but the rules appeared to state it was correct. Thoughts?

Thank you for your time!

1) Vehicles behave like any other model when destroyed, they are removed from the table completely. Older editions had rules for vehicles leaving behind wrecks, but they do not do so in 9th.
2) In 9th edition, there are no access point rules, you simply place each model of the disembarking unit wholly within 3" of any point of the transport vehicles base/hull.
3) Vehicles behave like any other model in the fight phase. They make their stated attacks at their stated weapon skill. Keep in mind that, in 9th edition, vehicles can now fire their non-Blast guns at units they are in engagement range of during their shooting phase.
4) Tank Shock doesn't exist any more. Is it stupid that 3 Grots can pin a Baneblade in place? Yes, but it's the rules.
5) Any unit can claim objectives. Some units (generally Troops, but exceptions exist) that state that they win objectives regardless of the number of enemy models trying to claim it, unless that unit also has such a rule, in which case yes, it boils down to model count.
6) Unless otherwise specified, there is no limit to the amount of stratagems you can use other than CP. Some stratagems will say they can only be used once per game, for example.
7) "The same Stratagem cannot be used more than once during the same phase." BRB Page 254
7) Yes, that is correct. Remember that the battlefield is simply being represented by models, it's not actually a static thing.

 Blastum wrote:

7) Can I buy the same strategems 2x, 3x, etc in my Command phase?

Just clearing something up, that maybe I've misunderstood. You don't "buy" stratagems in the command phase, you don't stock up on them and use them when you want them. In the the command phase you'll be earning some CP that go into your pool of them. At the point in the game specified by the stratagem you can just use it.

So, for example, it's turn one of the game and you go first. In your command phase you earn 1 extra Command Point (presuming your army is battle forged), you don't need to buy anything. In your movement phase you roll a rubbish Advance roll when you really needed to be speedier, you pay 1CP to use "Command Re-Roll" to re-roll it. You then roll another bad Advance roll, you want to re-roll but you can't use the same stratagem twice in the same phase so no joy. Your turn finishes and your opponent's begins. They charge you, you pay 1CP for "Fire Overwatch" to shoot at them.

Each stratagem is chosen, paid for and used all at the appropriate time. In your command phase you did not have to think "right, I'll buy re-roll twice and fire overwatch once".

That may not be what you're doing, but it could be read that that is how you think it works. It's easier than that.

Agreed with the replies so far. Just thought it worth mentioning that the reason vehicles don't stick around after being wrecked, is it's too easy to abuse by using it as new cover - especially for mech lists like Imperial Guard.

Thanks so much for the clarification. As for the CP rules, I think I got the hang of it. The perspective on wreckage though is an odd one. I mean, if you destroy a tank, the remains would stay on the battlefield. Yes, perhaps a house rule.

 doctortom wrote:
That said, if a unit is partially in cover and models are removed through casualty removal, if the person hits a point where all the models are in cover, then for the rest of his saves he counts as in cover.

That was how things worked in 8th, it has changed in 9th Edition.

The player being shot at allocates the wound to a model within the unit and if they chose to allocated it to a model that is in cover then that model gets the benefit of cover. So, for example, with Ruins a model in cover would get +1 to its saving throws against ranged weapons.

What this means is that if you have a unit of seven Plague Marines and only one is in a ruin then if the wound is allocated to that model then cover is gained. So it's almost the complete opposite of 8th.

And I learned this because I did it the wrong way for a few games...

 Uther wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
That said, if a unit is partially in cover and models are removed through casualty removal, if the person hits a point where all the models are in cover, then for the rest of his saves he counts as in cover.

That was how things worked in 8th, it has changed in 9th Edition.

The player being shot at allocates the wound to a model within the unit and if they chose to allocated it to a model that is in cover then that model gets the benefit of cover. So, for example, with Ruins a model in cover would get +1 to its saving throws against ranged weapons.

What this means is that if you have a unit of seven Plague Marines and only one is in a ruin then if the wound is allocated to that model then cover is gained. So it's almost the complete opposite of 8th.

And I learned this because I did it the wrong way for a few games...

Fair point - I was having edition lag there.

 doctortom wrote:

 Uther wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
That said, if a unit is partially in cover and models are removed through casualty removal, if the person hits a point where all the models are in cover, then for the rest of his saves he counts as in cover.

That was how things worked in 8th, it has changed in 9th Edition.

The player being shot at allocates the wound to a model within the unit and if they chose to allocated it to a model that is in cover then that model gets the benefit of cover. So, for example, with Ruins a model in cover would get +1 to its saving throws against ranged weapons.

What this means is that if you have a unit of seven Plague Marines and only one is in a ruin then if the wound is allocated to that model then cover is gained. So it's almost the complete opposite of 8th.

And I learned this because I did it the wrong way for a few games...

Fair point - I was having edition lag there.

So given the discussion about cover, we introduced a bunker I had 3d printed into the game. We both had trouble pin pointing the rules involving bunkers. This particular bunker had no weapon turrets or anything of that nature. Simply a building that units could pile into when the going gets tough.

What characteristics would this typeof bunker have?

 Blastum wrote:
So given the discussion about cover, we introduced a bunker I had 3d printed into the game. We both had trouble pin pointing the rules involving bunkers. This particular bunker had no weapon turrets or anything of that nature. Simply a building that units could pile into when the going gets tough.

What characteristics would this typeof bunker have?

It has whatever rules you agree to it pre-game, like any other terrain peice.

You could either use the Imperial/Chaos Bastion rules from CA2019 (which I don't recommend) or just assign it traits pre-game. Personally I'd just treat it as Ruins or Industrial Structure.