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Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





West Virginia

I had been asking a lot 9th edition questions in the 8th edition thread, so I figured that meant it was as good a time as any to get a new thread started for 9th.

To carry on what I had been asking in there...

How are people feeling about our troops in this edition? Are Strike Teams still good enough to move around on foot shooting 30 or 36 inches(with drones), or will Breachers in Devilfish be the best option this time? What about Kroot? Do they have a place in this edition where holding objectives is extremely important?

Plus, what can we do to screen our troops or otherwise protect them once they do get on an objective? Would protecting them with drones be worth the points investment?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I am going to explain my feelings about this at the moment.

I am finding the 3rd edition / 4th edition tactic known as devil fish of fury to be quite effective so far this edition. I equip the devilfish with gundrones and stick 1 or 2 squads of 5 man breacher teams in it.

The idea is quite simple. You run the devilfish up the field and onto an objective, preferably on the side closest to your opponents lines. If your opponent shoots the fish then you have 2 breacher squads getting out that have obspec and 2 drones. With proper placement you can have the drones stand in between your troops and the opponents forces to act as a barrier from getting charged. If the fish doesn't die then next turn your guys get out, leave the drones on the fish, and move the fish up to charge any infantry / vehicles that are near them to buy your breachers time.

You can also do squad of breachers and a squad of strike team. That way the breachers work again as a buffer to just buy the stike team time to score objective points.

I also run phirannas with fusion blasters and gundrones to work with the fish. Most people will shoot the phirannas first because they have quite a high threat range and the blaster can do serious dmg. And it does the same job of the drones giving more buffer units.

So the strategy is to put as much buffer units in between your troops and the opponents. Talking 2ndarys the problem I have found is tau used this way practically give up to obvious ones, "domination" and "bring it down". However this can be used to your advantage. If you know what your opponent is going to try to do you can play around it. A lot of times I have found people see how many easy to kill small drone teams your bringing and pick domination as an obvious one. But by t3 they have killed all the easy stuff and if you have targeted their anti tank properly by t3 they won't have anything easy to kill and you can hold them to only getting 6 or 9 pts.

As for your own secondaries its really easy to get engaged on all fronts. Also with this type of play raise the banners high can be a good choice if the mission has at least 2 objectives near your own zone. Finally you can go after things like abhor the witch quite easily as tau.

I hope all of this helps! I am really enjoying playing tau this edition so far. I am also enjoying not worrying about shield drones and riptide shenanigans.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The glaring issue with a Piranha plus Devilfish drone parade is that it effectively gifts your opponent 30vp simply by showing up via Attrition and Bring it Down. It also provides savvy players who bring mobile melee units (which is going to be most players in 9th who have functioning brains) multiple means to slingshot units up the board and into your lines. Alternatively, if they have fly (which things like Vanguard Veterans, Triarch Praetorians or other analogous units which you're absolutely going to see do) simply pop over your screen and slam straight into your vulnerable mid and backlines.
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





West Virginia

T'au's lack of any sort of melee threat is really going to hurt us this edition. I feel like objectives just get traded back and forth by competing charges. We cannot do that. We have to shoot someone off of the objective. Then we hope they cannot get a different unit onto it in their next turn, so we can move a unit up to claim it in our next turn.

I really don't want to see T'au get an awesome melee unit even if it is an alien ally. I think this would be a great edition to get jump-shoot-jump back. That way we can shoot someone off of the objective and then move onto it in the same turn. We still will probably get smashed off of it in the opponent's combat phase, but at least we got on it at all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/23 17:14:15


 
   
Made in ie
Disbeliever of the Greater Good




Co.Mayo, Ireland

Are there any good units or strats to handle space marines?
   
Made in no
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Norway, Tønsberg

 Karsight wrote:
Are there any good units or strats to handle space marines?


A Bork’an Coldstar with the airburst relic it’s D6 shots, AP -2, S 6 and 2 damage. I usually give him the relic, two additional airbursts and ats. I also give him the Bork’an WL trait to get +1 to wound on 6+ to hit. It’s pretty good against SM. I also have the y’vahra in the same detachment so he gets extra range on his weapons. D3 auto hit weapons are amazing, but you’ll need to build your army around him. Other than that I use a lot of cib’s on my enforcers and my xv’8’s.

Khorne daemons: 1200
Death Guard: 4000 
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





West Virginia

Since T'au seem to be in a rough spot right now, should our Ballistic Skill get improved to 3+ from 4+ in our new codex?

I am of the opinion that we either need to get an improved BS or a revamped Markerlight table since we don't match up well so far in the current edition.

In my ideal world anything in a suit would go to BS 3+, so Crisis, Riptide, Stormsurge, Broadside, Stealth, and Ghostkeel are all hitting on 3s. With that improvement I think we remove the +1 to hit from our Markerlight table, and we set it to something like this:

1 Markerlight gives re-roll 1s to hit.
2 Markerlights allows Seeker Missiles to be fired at unit's BS.
3 Markerlights ignore the target's cover bonuses.
4 Markerlights gives re-roll 1s to wound.

We essentially remove the bonus to hit since that is built into a lot of our datasheets and remove the ability to ignore the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons and advancing and firing assault weapons. Virtually all of our heavy weapons are on vehicles or units that ignore that penalty when moving anyway, so that isn't much of a loss. We add the wound re-rolls because we really need to make our shooting count, and getting four Markerlights on more than one unit in a turn is pretty tough anyway. Finally, we have addition through the subtraction of needing five Markerlights for anything. That just makes it easier for us to get the stuff that we need while shooting.

The other option in my mind would be to keep our BS at 4+(which I do not like at all, by the way), and change up the Markerlight table more significantly. Make it like this:

1 Markerlight gives re-roll 1s to hit.
2 Markerlights ignore the target's cover bonuses.
3 Markerlights add one to the hit roll.
4 Markerlights gives re-roll 1s to wound.

This makes it easier for us to get to the bonus to hit(which would be needed). Seekers would need to be altered in some way. Maybe they just always hit on 4s. They would be a little bit better on a Broadside or Piranha, but a bit worse on a Hammerhead. They could still benefit from Markerlights, though.

Obviously, this is wishlisting, but we are going to need some pretty major changes if we are to keep up in the new edition. Does anyone agree, disagree, or have a different solution they think would help the T'au out in 9th?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The concept of markerlights as the way to balance tau needs to die as frankly keeping them alive is impossible.
Pathfinders dead to a stiff breeze. Leaving you with taking up 3 elite slots and all of your HQ slots for 6 markerlight charictors good thing elites slots dont contain competitive units like Riptides, Crisis Suits Stealth suits, Ghostkeels and Y'vharra, R'vanna, XV9's (if CA2020 was correct).

Keeping Crisis Suits from being troops when marine have Gravis armour in their is dumb. Crisis suits as troops especially if they could declaring a charge on objectives would certainly help.

BS3 for a number of units would also help.

Crisis Boadyguards should say elites but get BS3 WS4

Also Kroot need to be worthwhile in Melee Kroot with 2A and AP-1 on the rifles in CC. Would atleast allow options for taking/contesting objectives.
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





West Virginia

Ice_can wrote:
The concept of markerlights as the way to balance tau needs to die as frankly keeping them alive is impossible.
Pathfinders dead to a stiff breeze. Leaving you with taking up 3 elite slots and all of your HQ slots for 6 markerlight charictors good thing elites slots dont contain competitive units like Riptides, Crisis Suits Stealth suits, Ghostkeels and Y'vharra, R'vanna, XV9's (if CA2020 was correct).

Keeping Crisis Suits from being troops when marine have Gravis armour in their is dumb. Crisis suits as troops especially if they could declaring a charge on objectives would certainly help.

BS3 for a number of units would also help.

Crisis Boadyguards should say elites but get BS3 WS4

Also Kroot need to be worthwhile in Melee Kroot with 2A and AP-1 on the rifles in CC. Would atleast allow options for taking/contesting objectives.


I tend to agree with your opinion on Markerlights. The balance needs to fall to the units and then Markerlights are just there as bonuses. I essentially see the Markerlights as the aura buffs that Marines get from Captains or Lieutenants. It could be used as a unique way to get re-rolls of 1 for hitting and wounding out(which basically every other army has access to in some way), so our units on their own wouldn't be handicapped if they didn't get that bonus.

A Space Marine Devastator Squad isn't essentially nerfed if you don't have a Captain standing next to them for re-rolls, but it definitely helps. I want to feel that way about Broadsides, for example. I want a Broadside to feel good on its own, and if it is shooting at something with Markerlight hits it just helps to buff it slightly. As of right now I just don't feel that way about most of our units.
   
Made in no
Regular Dakkanaut





So i was thinking of getting into Tau and i have two questions...

Is it even worth getting shield drones compared to gun/marker drones? While the shield drones have a 33% chance to survive the mortal wound, you can instead just get 50% more of the other drones and they can help shoot instead of doing nothing?

Secondly, as long as you have a drone controller, arent marker drones better than pathfinders now as well? cheaper and better survability.



   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don't want to be Major negativity but in good conscience I could NOT recomend starting Tau untill they have a 9th edition codex as they just can't play the 9th edition mission formats.

Shield drones unless they arw taking direct fire arn't IMHO worth it at their current rediculous points.

Better than Pathfinders, is a very low bar sadly, not to mention markee drones need to be supported and have to be exposed and anyone who knows what their doing will sweep markerlights up quickly.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Just played again a meta chasing list:
Salamanders:
3 x 6 Erradicators
3 x 3 ATVs
2 x 2 Attack Bikes
Chief Apothecary, Librarian, Captain, lieutenant.

BIG OOF.

My FSE airwing list which had done pretty well up to that point against Guard, Nids, Demons, Thousand Sons but here got annihilated. The board size coupled with meltas with 27" range before movements on a small strike force board is overwhelming when there were 50 melta shots coming my way each turn.

My suggestions are; 1) tone down SM and 2)

I like the idea of Markerlights, I would increase the synergy by allowing Missile Pods, Seakers, Cluster Rockets (Stormsurge) and HYMP to not require LOS if the target has a marker-light on it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/30 23:55:44


 
   
Made in no
Regular Dakkanaut





For a coldstar commander, would a triple airburst with the supernova relic and the advanced targeting system be a good build?

Figuring with how fast he is he can hide behind terrain and stay safe and keep shooting.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 ThePie wrote:
For a coldstar commander, would a triple airburst with the supernova relic and the advanced targeting system be a good build?

Figuring with how fast he is he can hide behind terrain and stay safe and keep shooting.


Appart from it only giving you 2 frag bursts and the relic which you need to be in Charge range to use.

AFP's seem way less of a liability on crisis suits who can have a chance at fighting back.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/31 15:43:01


 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Something interesting(at least for me) tabletop titan battle report today revealed. As far as playtesters knew the tau were not getting overwatch as now. They were surprised by the FAQ entry. Seems that was last minute change and means also it never was playtested as such.

Guess that explains when initially on previews GW sayd 2 units can overwatch when they overwatch. That was what was going to happen until they changed it.

Good for tau. It's hard enough now. Without overwatch as now it would be even harder

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
4663
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




tneva82 wrote:
Something interesting(at least for me) tabletop titan battle report today revealed. As far as playtesters knew the tau were not getting overwatch as now. They were surprised by the FAQ entry. Seems that was last minute change and means also it never was playtested as such.

Guess that explains when initially on previews GW sayd 2 units can overwatch when they overwatch. That was what was going to happen until they changed it.

Good for tau. It's hard enough now. Without overwatch as now it would be even harder

The issue is if that's true and no reason to believe it's not, that says either

The free overwatch will disappear when the 9th edition codex drops, as that was what they were supposed to be playtesting.

The playtesting highlighted an underperforming codex and this is the GW bandaid, aka RIP Tau for 9th.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





Livermore, Ca

Where do you get Forgeworld Hammerhead turrets? I don't see any on the website.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Where do you get Forgeworld Hammerhead turrets? I don't see any on the website.

Well they nolonger have rules so sinply put you don't, you could buy them from Forgeworld but they haven't sold them for years, hence them nolonger having rules in the new Imperial Armour.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





Livermore, Ca

That just makes them legends status, which is fine most of the time for me.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Sazzlefrats wrote:
That just makes them legends status, which is fine most of the time for me.

Sadly not quite, they currently live in the no valid rules camp as to my knowledge GW have not yet released a legends updated for all the Forgeworld models that were removed from the new book, and the old books are invalid.
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





West Virginia

Ice_can wrote:
 Sazzlefrats wrote:
That just makes them legends status, which is fine most of the time for me.

Sadly not quite, they currently live in the no valid rules camp as to my knowledge GW have not yet released a legends updated for all the Forgeworld models that were removed from the new book, and the old books are invalid.


That all changed today:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/09/the-legends-live-on/
   
Made in de
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Germany

The great knarloc looks so fun.
A pitty kroot don't fit the Japanese Gundam Style GW is pursuing
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





Livermore, Ca

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 Sazzlefrats wrote:
That just makes them legends status, which is fine most of the time for me.

Sadly not quite, they currently live in the no valid rules camp as to my knowledge GW have not yet released a legends updated for all the Forgeworld models that were removed from the new book, and the old books are invalid.


That all changed today:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/09/the-legends-live-on/



Ouch that did change, we lost our separate data sheets, so I can't run 6 or 7 different hammerhead units now... back to 3, and points increases for most options, though the high yield missile pods are well priced.

My main goal is to find a replacement for skyrays that just suck after they shoot their missiles. I'm now looking at fusion blaster piranhas as replacements. Unless someone has a better idea...

Here's a sample list (1 battalion,1 patrol) (its likely the patrol will be farsight enclaves and have two bombers, to use the flyer mortal wound stratagem)

Shadowsun
LongStrike
FireBlade Cadre
Fireblade Cadre

5 x Firewarriors
5 x Firewarriors
5 x Firewarriors
5 x Firewarriors

Ion Hammerhead
Ion Hammerhead
Ion Hammerhead

1 Piranha, fusion blasters, gun drones, 2 x seeker missiles
1 Piranha, fusion blasters, gun drones, 2 x seeker missiles
2 Piranha, fusion blasters, gun drones, 2 x seeker missiles

SunShark Bomber
SunShark Bomber
SunShark Bomber


or Great Knarlocs.... wow just 65pts with a twin kroot gun

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/10 18:25:35


 
   
Made in no
Regular Dakkanaut





What loadout do people think is the best for Crisis suits atm? Im wondering if the CIB are too expensive for what they do, would burst cannons or the new buffed flamers be better?
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





Livermore, Ca

 ThePie wrote:
What loadout do people think is the best for Crisis suits atm? Im wondering if the CIB are too expensive for what they do, would burst cannons or the new buffed flamers be better?


It depends. I tried flamers just recently, my opponent even let me hit two of his squads with 8 flamers... I think I killed 1 biker and 2 space marines. Not impressive, maybe if I had the warlord trait "unity through devastation" or a squad larger than 3. But... all in all, I would have been happier with CIB, jus FSSt in my list I didn't want my 3 man xv8 bodyguard unit that was protecting Longstrike to be viewed as a worthwhile target.

If you are running FSE, the commanders will want all kinds of fun stuff, fusion blasters, missile pods, and CIB... they all have one common theme... multiple damage.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/12 16:25:24


 
   
Made in de
Sneaky Sniper Drone



Germany

I'm not sure if anybody can help me out, or give me some information regarding the new imperial armour compendium and the big tau suits.

my questions would be, if the y'varha suit changed and if yes, did he change for the better? (still not sure if I should get the big fw suits and the IA compendium)
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The Y'vharra got unnecessarily nerfed, Rvanna got a lot better than it was, but given it was unplayable thats not a shining endorsement either.
I thibk the R'vanna is the better of the two currently, however compaired to Marine units they are like taking a nef bad to a gun fight currently.

I simply don't get the justification for their huge points costs.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Updated Remoras are meaty for FSE! Pairing a squad of 4 with a Coldstar w/drone controller = chef kiss emoji.

Output for 400 points:
3 Fusion Blasters S8 AP-4 D: D6
32 Burst Cannon - S5 AP- 0 D: 1
8 Remora Seekers - S8 AP-2 D: D3
4 Markerlights

Remoras being a unit of 3+ models provide Coldstar cover for lookout sir. Remoras have Hard to hit and count as being in light cover against ranged attacks from their 'Stealth Field Technology'. Their new 5W is a huge buff I feel.

Given that they can move 30" (with a -1 to hit for the Coldstar without a Warlord trait) one can couple all of that with FSE 's +1 Markerlight within 12" and reroll 1s to wound within 6". The stratagem 'Firestorm' adds another element to them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/16 02:03:45


 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





Livermore, Ca

Remora's look good now. Glad I have a pair, gonna have to run them.

Reroll wound rolls of 1 within 6", has been replaced with +1 markerlight within 12"
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Remora's look good now. Glad I have a pair, gonna have to run them.

Reroll wound rolls of 1 within 6", has been replaced with +1 markerlight within 12"


I've just looked over the PA Greater Good, the Codex and the relevant up to date FAQs.

Devastating Counter Strike is a Sept Tenet (Codex Page 127).

PA Greater Good gave Farsight Enclaves 'new rules' for: Stratagems, Relics, Warlord Traits & Tactical Objectives (PA GG Page 50).

Furthermore 'Sept Tenet' Devastating Counter Strike is explicitly mentioned in PA Greater Good (PA GG Page 46) :

"Sept Tenet
If your army is Battle-forged, all models in the Eight’s Detachment gain the following Sept Tenet:
Devastating Counter-strike: When resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon by a model with this tenet against a unit within 6", you can re-roll a wound roll of 1."


As there is nowhere that states that regular Farsight Enclaves units don't get a Sept Tenet and every unit in the Codex other than Vespid and Kroot units contain the keyword <Sept> one presumes that they keep the Sept Tenet.

   
 
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