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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ork nobz were always unique compared to a SM because they had 2 wounds to a SM's 1. Now with 9th edition handing old Marines another wound for 3ppm, what is going to happen to ork Nobz? I really do not want to see them to go up 1 wound because I will bet you dollars to donuts they don't price it at 3ppm like Marines got. I honestly don't see them as a competitive choice right now because at 17ppm they are more than twice the price of a boy while delivery less CC attacks and significantly less shooting than boyz. Add in the meta of SM's and primaris running around with 3+ Saves and 2+ wounds and that 2nd wound for Nobz isn't worth all that much because most competitive armies are gearing their list to deal with multi wound good save models.

Personally, I would really like to see nobz go to T5, this way we aren't over run by 3 wound models, plus with this treatment, it moves meganobz into a similar position to gravis models.

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







They'll stay at T4/2W. GW almost never changes the statline for anything; pretty much everything in 3e had an identical statline in 7e, even as the game grew killier around them.

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Made in ca
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought






The Ork Nob issue of no longer feeling like an elite choice is frankly something that is happening across all non-marine elite (besides Custodes) choices across the spectrum. When your basic intercessor can have as many or potentially more attacks than your elite choices, you know there's a problem. Look at how woefully outmatched Incubi, Aspect Warriors, Bullgryn and a bunch of other elites feel nowadays. SM have been taking so much design space that you need either a crazy amount of cost-efficiency or bespoke rules to compete.

Ideally, Nobz get either T5 or they gain WS2+ to reflect that they're the ones that fight the best and compensate for the -1 to hit from Power Klaws and Killsaws. Access to boomsticks that the Deffkilla Wartrike has would make them have a meaningful ranged weapon that isn't overpriced. Having basic choppas be AP-1 would also be a good start, as well as the PK being a flat 3 damage weapon.

Realistically, however, I think the most GW could do is make them troops choices. It fills in a gap where you could take them instead of boyz for mech lists and actually feel like they'll contribute rather than just having boyz hiding inside trukks.


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My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
Made in au
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Ere we go gets expanded. Maybe an additional attack or a extra point of strength. A mate I play with thinks we'll lose the option to choose which dice we re-roll for it, i'm hoping he's wrong. But I gess we gotta wait till the codex comes out.

Based on the nob bikers though I doubt there will be a state change. The warboss is likely to be buffed up a bit if the biker boss is an indicator.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Technically, the Nobz have gained a point of strength from 7th to 8th. They are stronger than they were before.
   
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit






Across the Rubicon

I would like to see them go to T5, and if they aren't already (I just know 'em from Kill Team) become Troop options.

I know using them in Kill Team most of my opponents were very surprised they weren't T5. Power-creep or no, I always want factions to have more Troop options and Nobz really do feel like a nice fit for Orks to allow a more elite infantry (ala Ironjawz from AoS) playstyle. At very least allow for playing Orks without having to take out a small loan to build an army.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




epronovost wrote:
Technically, the Nobz have gained a point of strength from 7th to 8th. They are stronger than they were before.


On turn 2 yes. Orkz used to get Furious Charge, so +1 strength and +1 attack on the charge. They just rolled the +1 strength into all ork stats.

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I would like for Nobz to be come 3W with 3 attacks base and become troops. And become ork equivalent of Tyranid Warriors.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

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 Galas wrote:
I would like for Nobz to be come 3W with 3 attacks base and become troops. And become ork equivalent of Tyranid Warriors.
Again though, I don't really like that idea because it just adds another model to the 3 wound list and more importantly, I DO NOT trust GW to correctly price them at 3wounds, specifically because they haven't been correctly priced since the 4th edition codex.

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





I don't think they need a third wound, but I do think nobz should be made troops. this would, IMHO give Orks an intreasting array of troop choices, you'd have "stupid cheap and mostly useless grots" you'd have cheap and functional Boyz, and then you could also take Nobz as your troops if you wanted a more "elite" ork army.

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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Count me in the 'T5 and Troops' crowd.

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Call me crazy, but could it be possible to buff all their stats and make a cheap HQ choice? Narratively speaking, nobs are the next step up in the Ork hierarchy so I think it could work almost like a command squad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/10 04:05:17


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Made in au
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Maybe as a bodyguard variant. Or be able to replace the boss at the cost of the remaining unit members as the new warboss kills the rest of the nobs to assert dominance.

While fun and fluffy it would be a little tricky to balance without someone somewhere complaining (now if we were imperials on the other hand!)
   
Made in ca
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought






 Mr Nobody wrote:
Call me crazy, but could it be possible to buff all their stats and make a cheap HQ choice? Narratively speaking, nobs are the next step up in the Ork hierarchy so I think it could work almost like a command squad.


The problem with that idea is that HQ slots are now a premium slot for Ork lists and it doesn't address the core issue of Nobz when it comes to their effectiveness as a unit. They will be unable to take relics so they can't take the basically mandatory Killa Klaw that the Warboss can, doesn't provide the 5+ invuln aura a Big Mek does, nor the utility of Da Jump from a Weirdboy. So there would arguably be even less incentive to take them now in the HQ slot compared to what we currently have available that far outdo Nobz offensively or ability-wise. Troops are a slot that non-green tide Ork lists struggle to fill efficiently and Nobz, especially after being buffed, would be a great way of addressing that.

I would prefer a Big Boss "lieutenant" equivalent HQ rather than a Nob squad as an HQ choice.

My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






They could just give them back all the things they have lost since 5th:

- Become troops
- 5++ cybork
- Waaagh! banner unit upgrade
- Painboy unit upgrade
- Dedicated battlewagon transport
- PKs that hit hard enough to threaten anything

Basically they lost everything that differentiated them from MANz, so it's no surprise that one of the two units remains unused.

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Italy

Troop option with T4 3W 4+ for 20-22ppm assuming they have free slugga & choppa.

Or course also Flash gitz and Meganobz would get their +1W, they're actual Nobz with a big weapon or a big armor.

Meganobz could get T5.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I'd like to see:

More durability, either in the form of 5++ cybork, more wounds, higher toughness, or more wounds and cybork which reduces incoming damage by 1.

Troops - they are elite yes, but not really "elites". They should be available as troops, and should hold objectives.

2+ to hit - these guys are the best the orks have at hitting stuff, and shoud hit stuff well. Their main weapons are -1 to hit, so 2+ is generally 3+ anyway.

I'd also like to see some new flavour for them, rather than the same old nobs but with little stat tweaks. I'm thinking:

Mobs of aspiring big meks testing out new guns or weapons, like handheld zzapp guns, shokk-choppas, just some cool new weapons.

Stormboy nobs, for speed, fly, deepstrike, transportability, and another fast-nobs slot if you run out of space for biker nobs.


It would also be cool to have Nobs team up to get stuck in. For example; Nob Bikers can transport 1 nob each. If a biker is slain, then you can either lose the nob or emergency disembark the unit. Nobs 2-up on bikes, hopping off to krump things - super orky.

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Am I the only person who thinks making Nobz Troops is a horrible idea? Completely contradicts like 30-odd years of lore. Boyz have always been the core of an Ork army.
   
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Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Nazrak wrote:
Am I the only person who thinks making Nobz Troops is a horrible idea? Completely contradicts like 30-odd years of lore. Boyz have always been the core of an Ork army.


so do a lot of the recent changes...

make of that what you will though.

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Italy

 Nazrak wrote:
Am I the only person who thinks making Nobz Troops is a horrible idea? Completely contradicts like 30-odd years of lore. Boyz have always been the core of an Ork army.


They were already troops in 5th and it was probably the best edition ever for orks.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







At this point, the best option if we want to preserve lore-friendliness is roll back some of the SM changes.

But that's not the world we live in...
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






There also have been stories in the fluff where powerful warbosses, especially goff ones, had huge retinues of dozens of nobz around them. And we are most likely talking about 2-3 units of nobz used in an army, not about nobz hordes. Boyz still do that way better than them.

For orks who have no clear organisational structure beyond all going in roughly the same direction as the biggest guy, fluff is a rather weak reason to not change the role of such great and iconic models to improve their use on the tabletop.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/10 14:42:49


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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Orks are in a pretty good place right now so nobs just need to be decent, rather than really powerful. I think something as simple as becoming troops would do that...

1: Being troops means objective secured, which is good.

2: Being troops means they can be the troop tax, which is good.

3: Being troops means they are exempt from the rule of 3, so you could take lots of little squads of nobs in trukks with special weapons, which sounds fun.

4: It separates them from meganobs slot, so you can take 3 nob units and 3 meganob units in a single detachment.


I do think cybork needs a fix though, one model getting a rubbish save is just terrible. 5++ for all, or reduce damage by 1, would be perfect.

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The problem is, Ork boyz cant be useful in minimum squads because then the infinitely more force-multiplier-able max squads would be overpowered.

And ork players can't run a reasonable list unless they have 3 troops

and GW doesn't want Gretchins showing up in ork lists other than as a joke unit, so much so that they made them 30-40% overpriced to disincentivize them

So, orks need a more elite troop. Nobz are the obvious choice. (Well, bikers are an obvious choice for a speed freeks army, and Kanz/Dreads for a mekmob army, but GW is in an off edition for Army Construction Skew so das is verboten in 9th)

And yeah I'm in agreement that T5 feels like a good spot for nobz. Orks and Nids should display durability through Toughness and Wounds, necrons through Res Prots, Nurgle through wound ignore mechanics, Space marines, Tau and Sisters through armor, and Eldar and Daemons through hit mods and invulns.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/10 15:04:49


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






Yep I totally agree with that, the_scotsman. I do believe they could also do with an additional attack, I really like big choppers but I feel like I need more attacks from them. But that may not make them troop choice worthy. T5 and 4 attacks base might be too much for a troop.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/10 15:37:20


 
   
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 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yep I totally agree with that, the_scotsman. I do believe they could also do with an additional attack, I really like big choppers but I feel like I need more attacks from them. But that may not make them troop choice worthy. T5 and 4 attacks base might be too much for a troop.


3A definitely feels fine to me. does once again highlight just how EMBARASSINGLY few attacks my eldar stuff gets for being "lightning fast" dedicated melee units, but both boyz and nobz get bonus attacks from their choppas.

.....

....seriously why are Eldar guardian/kabalite units not A2, aspect warriors/Incubi/Wyches A3, and dedicated infantry-shredding aspects like Scorpions A4 with the chainsword bonus?

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in au
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






the_scotsman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yep I totally agree with that, the_scotsman. I do believe they could also do with an additional attack, I really like big choppers but I feel like I need more attacks from them. But that may not make them troop choice worthy. T5 and 4 attacks base might be too much for a troop.


3A definitely feels fine to me. does once again highlight just how EMBARASSINGLY few attacks my eldar stuff gets for being "lightning fast" dedicated melee units, but both boyz and nobz get bonus attacks from their choppas.

.....

....seriously why are Eldar guardian/kabalite units not A2, aspect warriors/Incubi/Wyches A3, and dedicated infantry-shredding aspects like Scorpions A4 with the chainsword bonus?


Because Eldar are horrifically stuck in the past atm. Howling banshees man... wtf is that unit?

I seriously hope Eldar get some help for a good bunch of their units in their next book. For Demi-gods, they’re hardly better than a guardsman.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/10 16:02:52


 
   
Made in ca
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought






 Tiberius501 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yep I totally agree with that, the_scotsman. I do believe they could also do with an additional attack, I really like big choppers but I feel like I need more attacks from them. But that may not make them troop choice worthy. T5 and 4 attacks base might be too much for a troop.


3A definitely feels fine to me. does once again highlight just how EMBARASSINGLY few attacks my eldar stuff gets for being "lightning fast" dedicated melee units, but both boyz and nobz get bonus attacks from their choppas.

.....

....seriously why are Eldar guardian/kabalite units not A2, aspect warriors/Incubi/Wyches A3, and dedicated infantry-shredding aspects like Scorpions A4 with the chainsword bonus?


Because Eldar are horrifically stuck in the past atm. Howling banshees man... wtf is that unit?

I seriously hope Eldar get some help for a good bunch of their units in their next book. For Demi-gods, they’re hardly better than a guardsman.


It really does say something when a basic SM captain has more attacks and does more consistent damage than most of their Phoenix Lords, basically their equivalent of Chapter Masters.

My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





 Grimskul wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yep I totally agree with that, the_scotsman. I do believe they could also do with an additional attack, I really like big choppers but I feel like I need more attacks from them. But that may not make them troop choice worthy. T5 and 4 attacks base might be too much for a troop.


3A definitely feels fine to me. does once again highlight just how EMBARASSINGLY few attacks my eldar stuff gets for being "lightning fast" dedicated melee units, but both boyz and nobz get bonus attacks from their choppas.

.....

....seriously why are Eldar guardian/kabalite units not A2, aspect warriors/Incubi/Wyches A3, and dedicated infantry-shredding aspects like Scorpions A4 with the chainsword bonus?


Because Eldar are horrifically stuck in the past atm. Howling banshees man... wtf is that unit?

I seriously hope Eldar get some help for a good bunch of their units in their next book. For Demi-gods, they’re hardly better than a guardsman.


It really does say something when a basic SM captain has more attacks and does more consistent damage than most of their Phoenix Lords, basically their equivalent of Chapter Masters.


As Deathwatch my Blackshield Veteran has better damage output than any pheonix lord, hands down.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







SemperMortis wrote:
 Galas wrote:
I would like for Nobz to be come 3W with 3 attacks base and become troops. And become ork equivalent of Tyranid Warriors.
Again though, I don't really like that idea because it just adds another model to the 3 wound list and more importantly, I DO NOT trust GW to correctly price them at 3wounds, specifically because they haven't been correctly priced since the 4th edition codex.


If you weren't to touch anything about their current profile, where would you say the current "correct" cost is, in your eyes?

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