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Title may be a bit confusing so let me elaborate:

For my birthday next week I'll be getting a Start Collecting box, either Cult, TS or Dark Eldar, essentially gave them a list and said "pick one at random" so it's still a surprise. As such I've been playing around with possible list ideas as to how to build up the army that I receive, although at the moment I'm rather confused at the current situation when mixing elements of these particular armies.

- For Thousand Sons, what is the current rule on incorporating both TS and Tzeench Daemons, and the same question when considering the DE Kabals, Cults and Covens? I don't mean using both TS and DE in the same army.

Is it the case of I'd have to buy separate detachments for each army element, or can they be mixed freely due to the keywords? My previous armies have all been Imperium with little to no allies/mixing so this is new territory for me.

Cheers.

DE have some very unusual rules. Why they have this no one knows.

All of the units in the dark eldar codex are either kabal (shooty guys) wytches (fast meleee girls) haemonkuli (big strong things) or unaligned. Some, like transports, can have several tags depending on who you buy it for.

All of these sub factions have induvidual faction traits. 3(/6?) for kabal, 3 for wytches, 3 for haemonculy. They are all really good and thematic. However, if you mix any of them within a detcahment they loose their special detachment rules. You can however have unaligned in every detatchment. For instace the 3 wytches one are +1 attack, +1 S or advance and charge. All good.

As far as I remember there are no wytches in elites, no kabals in fast attack etc. You get the drift.

There have been some rule change in 9th regarding how much CP you loose for having multiple detachmenta, but I do not remember them. DE used to have a special rule for how much CP you got for having multiple detachments. But it was rather bad as you where capped for 3 detachments in 8th. Somebody can fill you inn on current rules.

Anyway, what you are looking for is filling out detachments with one of the three factions and some neutral faction before moving on to the next detachment.

Most (all?) Thousands Sons and Tzeentch Daemons have the Tzeentch faction keyword, so you can legally put them all in one detachment. However, you will miss out on their 'chapter tactic' and 'objective secured' type abilities. Having one detachment of each in the same army will cost you some command points but you will keep all the bonuses.

Drukhari keep their 'objective secured' equivalent if they are mixed but still don't get their 'chapter tactic' ability. This may force you to bring THREE detachments. I thought I remembered seeing an exception just for them but maybe I made that up. I suspect that their codex might make this easier for them somehow, but goodness knows when that will be.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Title may be a bit confusing so let me elaborate:

For my birthday next week I'll be getting a Start Collecting box, either Cult, TS or Dark Eldar, essentially gave them a list and said "pick one at random" so it's still a surprise. As such I've been playing around with possible list ideas as to how to build up the army that I receive, although at the moment I'm rather confused at the current situation when mixing elements of these particular armies.

- For Thousand Sons, what is the current rule on incorporating both TS and Tzeench Daemons, and the same question when considering the DE Kabals, Cults and Covens? I don't mean using both TS and DE in the same army.

Is it the case of I'd have to buy separate detachments for each army element, or can they be mixed freely due to the keywords? My previous armies have all been Imperium with little to no allies/mixing so this is new territory for me.

Cheers.

So, for the case of Thousand Sons, you can theoretically mix in TZEENCH DAEMON units, but you shouldn't as it will break the detachment trait.

You'd need to run an extra detachment, which will cost you CP.

The same for dark Eldar, you have to split Kabal's, Cults, and Covens into detachments. They have their Raiding Force rule to allow for multiple Patrols, which I think breaks even but I am not 100% certain.

In short, in 9th edition it's almost never worth taking a second detachment.

Ah yes here we go. How to circumvent the CP loss.



https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/26/faction-focus-drukharigw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-4/

One option to consider with Dark Eldar is you could go Ynarri with them (having to take one of the Ynarri as a HQ unit). There's a lot of funny stuff with that right now and I would suggest sticking with a straight Drukhari detachment, and (as the others have pointed out) not mixing Wyches with Haemonculi or Kabals.

Just keep in mind you're limited on the number of detachments you can take dependent on game size. The errata is meant to delete the 6 patrol bonus as the most you can take is 3 in Strike Force and 4 in Onslaught, but the errata also doesn't reference the right rule so -shrug-.

You can take the 3 patrols for Dark Eldar and just about break even, but that's about it.

You could always run TS with a single detachment as your army, and then use the extra points to summon in Tzeench Daemons without costing you CP (though if you use summoning stratagems to do it and they come out to 2 or 3 total, might as well have brought a second detachment of daemons).

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
You could always run TS with a single detachment as your army, and then use the extra points to summon in Tzeench Daemons without costing you CP (though if you use summoning stratagems to do it and they come out to 2 or 3 total, might as well have brought a second detachment of daemons).

If you summon in Daemons then characters won't gain the Daemonic Loci, "Troops" won't gain "Objective Secured" and you won't have access to the Daemon Stratagems. I've been using Nurglings and so I really want them to have Objective Secured so I haven't played with summoning yet. But I am pondering it.

 Uther wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
You could always run TS with a single detachment as your army, and then use the extra points to summon in Tzeench Daemons without costing you CP (though if you use summoning stratagems to do it and they come out to 2 or 3 total, might as well have brought a second detachment of daemons).

If you summon in Daemons then characters won't gain the Daemonic Loci, "Troops" won't gain "Objective Secured" and you won't have access to the Daemon Stratagems. I've been using Nurglings and so I really want them to have Objective Secured so I haven't played with summoning yet. But I am pondering it.

True, very true.

Why do you think summoned nurglings dont get obsec ? Summoned units dont get detachment abilities. However, obsec is gained when you are battleforged, its not a detachment ability. Battleforged means all of your units are organized in detachments. Summoned units arent part of any detachments, but i dont think you can lose battleforged during the game. If you would lose battleforged during the game, because you summoned a unit, your entire army would lose obsec, and you wouldnt get 1CP in the command phase.

Do you have a rules citation for that? I don't see it in the Battle-Forged Armies section of my rulebook. As for the Codexes, I'm 99.9% sure they grant such abilities in units in the detachments, not in the army.

 p5freak wrote:
Why do you think summoned nurglings dont get obsec ? Summoned units dont get detachment abilities. However, obsec is gained when you are battleforged, its not a detachment ability. Battleforged means all of your units are organized in detachments. Summoned units arent part of any detachments, but i dont think you can lose battleforged during the game. If you would lose battleforged during the game, because you summoned a unit, your entire army would lose obsec, and you wouldnt get 1CP in the command phase.

Chaos Deamons Codex, page 124, "Daemonic Legions"
"If your army is battle forged, all troops units in Chaos Daemon Detachments gain this ability".

It's not about losing battle forged status for your army, it's about the ability only being gained by troops in detachments.

You are right. Only troops in detachments gain obsec. Summoned units arent part of any detachment.