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Made in gb
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot




Scotland

Hi all, I've been thinking about our future codex after the few updates/snippets on WarCom that we've got so far. Ie wraithseer (ap-1 is ap0) and incubi (+1WS).
If these rules are consistent across those unit types ie aspect warrior and wraith construct, do you think that would be a benefit? I certainly believe it would help especially if the ranged aspects get 2+BS. What's others thought's on these 2 changes and how they may affect those unit types?

I think those changes are good starts but not enough to get us up to speed on their own. What other (realistic if you can) changes would you like to see going forward?

What I'd really like to see even more than new strats and relics is battle focus extended to the vehicles (not monsters) and all the heavy weapons become assault. This IMHO would really lean in to our manouvreability being our key strength as we would be back to being faster than SM as we should be IMHO.

I also think all of the heavy weapons need a total rework now. Not just changed to assault(A) as above but I'd like to see some thing like 2 more shots on the Scatter Laser maybe a -x ap on a 6, maybe a -2? The Shuriken Cannon needs to be D2 IMHO as it's supposed to be our HB equivalent. Maybe an extra shot for the ap and range loss. As the -3 on a 6 just doesnt make up the difference.
Starcannons now need a flat damage, ideally 3. However if it was D2 I'd like to see +1d on a 6 or similar. AML I still think is fine as flexibility is its biggest bonus and if the BL goes to Dd3+3 I wouldn't mind, maybe +1D on a 6? This would give it not as good a range of a LC but a bit more consistent damage like it's supposed to be and because ap-4 is mostly wasted due to the amount of invulnerable saves about. This would make it a little more worth its points IMHO and actully compete with LC and MM.

I think these changes would go a long way to helping differentiate the roles of the heavy weapons as we'd then have, keeping any current special abilities:
SL: A6 S6 ap0 D1,
AML Ad6 S4 -1ap D1,
ShC: A4 S6 ap0 D2,
StC: A2 S6 -3ap D2/3,
AML: A1 S8 -2 Dd6,
BL: A1 S8 -4ap Dd3+3,
These changes would help show off our mobility but would also give us a better consistency of damage for the currently underperforming weapons( I'm looking at you BL) and also make each weapon type more specific to hunting certain unit types as we are meant to do.

I do realise that these changes would invalidate CTM as an upgrade and also we would not suffer the -1 to hit when firing these weapons in melee. I can't think of other issue's with the changes. Maybe someone else can? I'm sure points would need to change as well of course. But point changes are for another thread lol.

I think these changes would help massively and still be in keeping with the fluff and style of the army.

What do you think? And what would you like to see changed going forward.

Cheers, K
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Expensive 1W/T3 models are going to leave the Codex utterly screwed by the damage creep people need to deal with Space Marines until the next time GW burns the system down and starts over, no matter how much you pump the Eldar firepower.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267 
   
Made in ca
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought






I could honestly see the cap on negative mods to hit/wound being bumped up to a max of 2 for eldar in general as a way of giving them more durability. Now stacking lightning fast reflexes with an existing -1 to hit mod is now relevant beyond using it against units with +1 to hit buffs. It also better reflects Eldar type survivability, where it's less about sheer toughness or wounds like marines and more like not getting hit to begin with. You'll still be able to hit on 6's to hit for those who aren't BS3+ or better, but I feel like this is a semi-reasonable way of addressing the issues without just upping eldar weapon damage (though that is part of it) and decreasing costs. You get to keep an aspect of their elite nature rather than just pricing them to be spammed, which would go against their elite army type.

My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





Been wondering the same thing recently.

I expect to see more Aspects (specifically Warp Spiders and Scorps), and they will probably become more deadly. Likewise Banshees who I expect to gain an additional attack to go with their +1S power weapons.

Wraith constructs ignoring AP-1 is a real good change, hopefully sticks. Wraithblade sword variant should give +1 attack for each sword (needs a reason to be taken over current axe/shield)

Weapons should be an easy fix. Brightlance D3+3 damage. Scatter laser Hvy 6 Ap-1, maybe drop to S5. Shuricannon goes to D2. Others are basically fine, maybe D2 starcannon.

Vehicles are in a good spot already.

Phoenix Lords need to become almost Godly, they are a joke currently. likewise the Avatar.

shuriken catapults need a massive range increase, but stats are OK as is.

I'd like to see the warlock removed as a singular HQ choice, and instead become part of either a warlock council, or an upgrade to Guardian sqd (like a sgt). Skyrunner for windriders, foot for Guardians.

And we could probably start a whole new thread on the wraithknight, but it needs some serious help.

Finally, relics and warlord traits need to be upgraded dramatically, they are so bad.

I just hope this edition is not one where GW decides to let the codex "coast" again with the intention of upgrading it in 10th. I'm willing to wait this edition for a range update, but it certainly is time....more so than any other range in 40k.
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




UK

Yeah there's two fundamental aspects that need to be addressed.

Basic damage dealing and statlines have changed little or actively gotten worse since 3rd Edition. The Shuriken Catapult was a strong profile in 3rd Edition, but it looks laughable now and worse yet encourages a style of play on Guardian Defenders that is completely at odds with how they should act on the battlefield. A similar issue exists with the Shuriken Cannon, where a S6 AP0 D1 weapon just does not cut it in modern 40k. The Incubi changes are encouraging because, combined with the Triarch Praetorian changes, are a clear acknowledgment by GW that an Elite-killing Elite unit should be D2 on its attacks as standard and so things like Banshees are highly likely to see changes in these areas. If we were going pure wishlist, I'd really amplify the shock troop nature of Banshees and give them insane bonuses on the charge (1+ attack and re-rolling wounds in first round of combat) along with generally good weapon stats (S+1 AP -3 D2 swords) so they could really be what they are in-lore; the pre-eminent shock assault troops in the galaxy, the kind that make even Astartes sweat.

But as AnomanderRake mentions, we have a square that needs to be circled. The big elephant in the room. How do you make an elite army, on the same level of "eliteness" as Marines, actually survivable when it is comprised of T3 1W models? Especially when stacking modifiers are dead. If this can't be solved then either the army continues to be vehicle only because the infantry are all too expensive to survive a turn, or it becomes a cheap chaff horde army. Stratagem use can only go so far here, like how Fire and Fade and LFR can help offset the extreme fragility-per-point of Dark Reapers, but now other units that need these stratagems to not die are left out in the cold with no way to survive. I'm not sure invuns are the answer either, because they don't do anything for Dire Avengers currently and they're certainly not what make Harlequins strong. Maybe some kind of system that adds increasing defensive buffs based on movement taken.

I also do think that, judging by the anti-Aeldari stratagem in the DW supplement, all space elves are going to be getting some way to manipulate enemy ballistic skill which is essentially a way to add stacking modifiers back in. I eagerly await all the salt that will generate.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





I doubt banshees will see D2 added to their weapons. their weapons are literally power swords aren't they? we've seen the buff given to them (I kinda think the +1 str power swords have now was done specificly with Banshees in mind) I'd give them two attacks on the charge or when charged. essentially a super charged version of the SM shock assault rule. and thats what I'd more or less start doing with eldar across the board. giving their aspects targeted special rules that buffs them at their job.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




UK

They can easily just be given "Mastercrafted" power swords in rule and lore terms. For instance, do BGV swords look that physically different to normal power swords? In fact Banshee power swords look much different to other power swords within the CWE range so they can be made whatever type of weapon that's needed.

Giving them extra damage and only 1 extra attack (which could be based on charging) helps focus them in what they should be good at; Elite-killing shock troops. This is the entire niche and supposed job of Banshees. Upping their numbers of attacks instead turns them into horde blenders which is a job other Aspect Warriors are more focused on.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





D2 power swords do not make sense for banshees. Increase their attacks (on the charge probably best way to do it) to show their speed and ferociousness in combat. 4A when charging would be enough to make them viable.
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







An Aspect Warrior keyword ability that causes all attacks targeting them to be no better than BS/WS 4+ would do a lot for survivability. I also think there are clues within that Deathwatch stratagem.

The Drukhari codex will drop some hints moving forward, mainly looking at Wyches as the example of an infantry unit relying on speed to survive. Any infantry unit moving 7+" in it's previous movement phase gaining an invulnerable save may be another way of doing it, but invulnerable saves help Wyches because they have no armor and would feel pretty situational on a 3+ save aspect warrior.

Avatar to get the Ghaz/C'tan wounds-per-phase rule as well.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/22 22:28:06


   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





Avatar needs to either reduce melta damage or ignore (like before), as a big middle finger to the eradicators and melta meta
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






CWE might be able to lower BS as well as give a -1 to hit. Effectively a -2 to hit work around. Without rerolls it could be enough to grant survivability to those key paper thin units... Could be ok if they go this route.

I persoanly think there was absolutely nothing wrong with -2 to hit on a couple units especially if you have a caveat that 6's always hit and there will be fewer re-rolls. .

I think D-cannon/wraith weapon is going D3+3

But I think BL is staying D6 like the las cannon making it just worse... unless they make it dirt cheap

Fusion.. I dont know.. At this point im past guessing what GW is thinking.

Shuriken weapons will be very important..

I think the DE codex will be a decent indicator of what we might see.

As things stand I'm neither hopeful nor optimistic lol. So far the wraith construct rule in the world of duty eternal for free for everyone, is very luckluster so Im expecting more of the same all around for xenos...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 bullyboy wrote:
Avatar needs to either reduce melta damage or ignore (like before), as a big middle finger to the eradicators and melta meta


Yeah that would be funny

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/22 23:57:23


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





 bullyboy wrote:
Avatar needs to either reduce melta damage or ignore (like before), as a big middle finger to the eradicators and melta meta



He should be like his 2nd ed self - the same cost as a bloodthirster with similar power.

8" 2+ 2+ S8 T8 W16 A8 Ld10 Sv2+

Immune: treats all plasma, flamer, and melta weapons as damage 0

Molten armour: can't reduce his armour save to less than 4+


That's a rough approximation of what his 2nd ed version would look like in 9th.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
IMO all eldar in the current climate of reduced modifiers and no Initiative value, require a baked in rule that makes them harder to hit to reflect the supposed 'speed over armour' aspect GW have claimed for 30 years but continue to strip away every edition.

Some options:

Aeldari Quicksilver:
Eldar cannot be hit on an unmodified attack roll of less than 3+.

Now you effectively get -2 from stacking -1 abilities etc with this one. It also means that characters become more survivable by being harder to hit - phoenix lords are thus more survivable.

or

Eldar ignore AP unless it reduces their armour to 7+.

this means they become all or nothing - either getting their armour save or not at all. Representing everything but the most powerful strikes being glancing blows as they kung fu their way through oncoming fire.



guardians 5-10:
Lasblasters - 24" S3 Assault 4
or
Shuriken rifles 24" S5 Assault 1 rend
+ 1 heavy weapon platform per 5 models


storm guardians 5-10:
Shuriken catapults 18" S4 Assault 2 rend
+ Pistols and CCW, + 1 special weapon per 5 models



Autarchs

7" 3+ 3+ 3 3 5 4 9 3+

Path of Command: Roll a d6 when you use a strategem, on a 5+ you regain a SP. if the unit you are using a strategem on is within 6" of this unit, improve this to 3+.

Master of strategies: Choose 3pts of strategem at the beginning of the game. These may be used at any point for free. You cannot regain these through the Path of Command.


Exarch Lord

7" 2+ 2+ 4 4 4 5 9 3+

4+ invulnerable save

<ASPECT> - choose the aspect keyword that they belong to

Shrine leader: may take up to 2 units of their aspect as troops choices with obsec. If already troops, don't count against slots.

May take 3 exarch powers.


Phoenix Lord

8" 2+ 2+ 5 5 6 6 2+

4+ invulnerable save

Eternal Warrior: All attacks are reduce to Damage 1

Knows all the exarch powers of their shrine and may choose 3 to be active at the beginning of any turn.

















This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/23 00:33:26


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Oaka wrote:
An Aspect Warrior keyword ability that causes all attacks targeting them to be no better than BS/WS 4+ would do a lot for survivability.

Yeaaah, because what 8th edition clearly shown, nerfing stats of elite units opponent bought for extra points after list was built /game started is brilliant way to have a balanced game with fun for both sides instead of terrible, broken mechanic-- Oh wait

Also, funnily enough, that would make power fists/thunder hammers by far the best anti-Eldar weapons, thanks to them already being 4+. Yup, a weapon with grace and speed of brick being best anti-Eldar gear makes a ton of sense
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 Irbis wrote:
 Oaka wrote:
An Aspect Warrior keyword ability that causes all attacks targeting them to be no better than BS/WS 4+ would do a lot for survivability.

Yeaaah, because what 8th edition clearly shown, nerfing stats of elite units opponent bought for extra points after list was built /game started is brilliant way to have a balanced game with fun for both sides instead of terrible, broken mechanic-- Oh wait

Also, funnily enough, that would make power fists/thunder hammers by far the best anti-Eldar weapons, thanks to them already being 4+. Yup, a weapon with grace and speed of brick being best anti-Eldar gear makes a ton of sense


Because so many models is rocking a thunder hammer and a power fist... Very big problem for 1w T3 3+/4+infantry and not those 25 WS 3+ S4 Ap0/-1 attacks..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/23 00:47:48


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





 Irbis wrote:
 Oaka wrote:
An Aspect Warrior keyword ability that causes all attacks targeting them to be no better than BS/WS 4+ would do a lot for survivability.

Yeaaah, because what 8th edition clearly shown, nerfing stats of elite units opponent bought for extra points after list was built /game started is brilliant way to have a balanced game with fun for both sides instead of terrible, broken mechanic-- Oh wait

Also, funnily enough, that would make power fists/thunder hammers by far the best anti-Eldar weapons, thanks to them already being 4+. Yup, a weapon with grace and speed of brick being best anti-Eldar gear makes a ton of sense


No what it means is that the eldar are so fast you can't out finesse them, and you have the same chance of hitting them with your fist as you do an unwieldy hammer. Thus you go for the most damaging weapon so that when you do hit, it does the most damage.


   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Hellebore wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
Avatar needs to either reduce melta damage or ignore (like before), as a big middle finger to the eradicators and melta meta



He should be like his 2nd ed self - the same cost as a bloodthirster with similar power.

8" 2+ 2+ S8 T8 W16 A8 Ld10 Sv2+

Immune: treats all plasma, flamer, and melta weapons as damage 0

Molten armour: can't reduce his armour save to less than 4+


That's a rough approximation of what his 2nd ed version would look like in 9th.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
IMO all eldar in the current climate of reduced modifiers and no Initiative value, require a baked in rule that makes them harder to hit to reflect the supposed 'speed over armour' aspect GW have claimed for 30 years but continue to strip away every edition.

Some options:

Aeldari Quicksilver:
Eldar cannot be hit on an unmodified attack roll of less than 3+.

Now you effectively get -2 from stacking -1 abilities etc with this one. It also means that characters become more survivable by being harder to hit - phoenix lords are thus more survivable.

or

Eldar ignore AP unless it reduces their armour to 7+.

this means they become all or nothing - either getting their armour save or not at all. Representing everything but the most powerful strikes being glancing blows as they kung fu their way through oncoming fire.



guardians 5-10:
Lasblasters - 24" S3 Assault 4
or
Shuriken rifles 24" S5 Assault 1 rend
+ 1 heavy weapon platform per 5 models


storm guardians 5-10:
Shuriken catapults 18" S4 Assault 2 rend
+ Pistols and CCW, + 1 special weapon per 5 models



Autarchs

7" 3+ 3+ 3 3 5 4 9 3+

Path of Command: Roll a d6 when you use a strategem, on a 5+ you regain a SP. if the unit you are using a strategem on is within 6" of this unit, improve this to 3+.

Master of strategies: Choose 3pts of strategem at the beginning of the game. These may be used at any point for free. You cannot regain these through the Path of Command.


Exarch Lord

7" 2+ 2+ 4 4 4 5 9 3+

4+ invulnerable save

<ASPECT> - choose the aspect keyword that they belong to

Shrine leader: may take up to 2 units of their aspect as troops choices with obsec. If already troops, don't count against slots.

May take 3 exarch powers.


Phoenix Lord

8" 2+ 2+ 5 5 6 6 2+

4+ invulnerable save

Eternal Warrior: All attacks are reduce to Damage 1

Knows all the exarch powers of their shrine and may choose 3 to be active at the beginning of any turn.



















I think they're going to give the Avatar the Ghazghkull makeover like they did with C'tan. New big, targetable model and an only take x wounds per phase ability. Not exactly original but if it aint broken no real need to change it.




 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps




Going by the incubi statline they showed off this weekend, I suspect Aspects will also get a WS (or BS) and damage buff, but not much else.


AnomanderRake wrote:Expensive 1W/T3 models are going to leave the Codex utterly screwed by the damage creep people need to deal with Space Marines until the next time GW burns the system down and starts over, no matter how much you pump the Eldar firepower.

I'm not so sure. Damage creep doesn't actually matter much against 1W. The new heavy bolter isn't any better against eldar infantry, for example. All the multi-damage attacks people need to deal with marines don't actually help against footdar. They actually have the potential to sneak in past the skew in that regard.

The big concern is the sheer quantity of attacks that get thrown around these days. Boosting that aspect of eldar (which is what they've blatantly said they're doing with dark eldar) doesn't actually help them stand up against the pure blender lists that people can drop on the table.

Even stuff like the revision to the stalker (no penalties anymore, but against aircraft they get 12 attacks rather than 6 _and_ +1 to hit) is far more of a problem for eldar than a lot of the damage boosts that leave other armies so concerned.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





I just hope that D2 doesn't get so common we're right back to the start with marines paying points for defensive stats that are essentially useless

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





BrianDavion wrote:
I just hope that D2 doesn't get so common we're right back to the start with marines paying points for defensive stats that are essentially useless


Yeah that's a possibility, as was the AP2/3 spam of 3-7 ed. And that's mostly because the presence of marines in the meta forces it that way.

It rarely has anything to do with the rule itself and more to do with the cost benefit of taking it based on the likelyhood of your opponent being space marines.

This is a problem of GW's own making. If they supported and spruiked other armies to the extent they do marines, the playing field would be more even and the choice harder to make.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





D2 on Incubi makes sense because they are carrying glaives.....power swords are not glaives, lol.

Autarch star glaive; goes to D2
Fuegan Fireaxe: goes to D2 or maybe D3
Avenger Exarch power glaive: goes to D2
Warp spider powerblades; +1A for each blade, -2, reroll wounds.

etc
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






I can see ghost axes going to flat 3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Hellebore wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I just hope that D2 doesn't get so common we're right back to the start with marines paying points for defensive stats that are essentially useless


Yeah that's a possibility, as was the AP2/3 spam of 3-7 ed. And that's mostly because the presence of marines in the meta forces it that way.

It rarely has anything to do with the rule itself and more to do with the cost benefit of taking it based on the likelyhood of your opponent being space marines.

This is a problem of GW's own making. If they supported and spruiked other armies to the extent they do marines, the playing field would be more even and the choice harder to make.


Pretty much...

They already gave out 2D HB to everyone in the IOM and chaos.. While at the same time giving 3W T5 troops to marines..
Its not like there's a lack of multi damage weapons in any codex if you build for it.. so what difference does it make if Eldar get some of it?

We need more elite AT for CWE so its actually a choice between say a star cannon and a dang AML/ BL. Expensive single shot D6 dmg weapons now are ugly....

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/23 01:46:12


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





Eldar need what literally everything else in the game needs: MASSIVE, MASSIVE DURABILITY INCREASES.

Unfortunately GW's codex designers have a spike through their brain, and are still slamming their foreheads into the wall screaming DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE so, nothing will change.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Tacoma, WA, USA

Really? There were no durability increases in Codex Space Marines nor Codex Necrons?

Sorry, but you are just wrong. They are adjusting both damage and durability. Damage is increasing, but not against static durability.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I never understood the move of shuriken catapults to short range weapons when they were orginally basically storm bolters. You would think the reservist shopkeeper school teacher soldiers would be equipped with a longer range weapons instead of a suicide weapon with the range of a pistol. I think the idea of defenders with lasblasters but with crappier BS would make more sense if catapults stay short range. Shuriken cannon seems like it should be higher rate of fire lower damage weapon-like D1 heavy bolter with double the shots or something.
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




UK

 bullyboy wrote:
D2 on Incubi makes sense because they are carrying glaives.....power swords are not glaives, lol.

Autarch star glaive; goes to D2
Fuegan Fireaxe: goes to D2 or maybe D3
Avenger Exarch power glaive: goes to D2
Warp spider powerblades; +1A for each blade, -2, reroll wounds.

etc


But as I keep saying, mastercrafted power swords exist and there could be any number of justifications for why Banshee Power Swords do more damage. Maybe because they just get renamed to Banshee Swords and so can be whatever the feth they need to be.

And at the end of the day, an Elite unit thats entire purpose is killing other Elite units in sudden shock assaults cannot function within 8/9th on D1 weaponry. It's why Incubi were always problematic, it's why Praetorians were always awful and it's why BGV, Praetorians and Incubi now have D2 weapons. Keeping Banshees on D1 weaponry, but increasing their attacks shifts the job of the unit into horde blending, which is not and never has been what Banshees are about, on the tabletop or in-lore. They have always been the pre-eminent Marine-killers at least in theory if not in practice. You cannot be a Marine-killer if you're D1.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Bosskelot wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
D2 on Incubi makes sense because they are carrying glaives.....power swords are not glaives, lol.

Autarch star glaive; goes to D2
Fuegan Fireaxe: goes to D2 or maybe D3
Avenger Exarch power glaive: goes to D2
Warp spider powerblades; +1A for each blade, -2, reroll wounds.

etc


But as I keep saying, mastercrafted power swords exist and there could be any number of justifications for why Banshee Power Swords do more damage. Maybe because they just get renamed to Banshee Swords and so can be whatever the feth they need to be.

And at the end of the day, an Elite unit thats entire purpose is killing other Elite units in sudden shock assaults cannot function within 8/9th on D1 weaponry. It's why Incubi were always problematic, it's why Praetorians were always awful and it's why BGV, Praetorians and Incubi now have D2 weapons. Keeping Banshees on D1 weaponry, but increasing their attacks shifts the job of the unit into horde blending, which is not and never has been what Banshees are about, on the tabletop or in-lore. They have always been the pre-eminent Marine-killers at least in theory if not in practice. You cannot be a Marine-killer if you're D1.


power swords ignoring armor or not I find it..... doubtful that a T3 S3 Melee unit has EVER been a "pre-eminant marine killer"

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Irbis wrote:


Also, funnily enough, that would make power fists/thunder hammers by far the best anti-Eldar weapons, thanks to them already being 4+. Yup, a weapon with grace and speed of brick being best anti-Eldar gear makes a ton of sense


well it makes sense. you can dodge a blow from a spear or a sword or mace, but if someone does a 16x16 aoe mini earthquake and static explosin in the air, there is no dodging that.

What eldar also need is psychic protection, they are linked to the matrix through their soul stones, and if an active eldar race member is near the protection should be even stronger.


If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





BrianDavion wrote:
 Bosskelot wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
D2 on Incubi makes sense because they are carrying glaives.....power swords are not glaives, lol.

Autarch star glaive; goes to D2
Fuegan Fireaxe: goes to D2 or maybe D3
Avenger Exarch power glaive: goes to D2
Warp spider powerblades; +1A for each blade, -2, reroll wounds.

etc


But as I keep saying, mastercrafted power swords exist and there could be any number of justifications for why Banshee Power Swords do more damage. Maybe because they just get renamed to Banshee Swords and so can be whatever the feth they need to be.

And at the end of the day, an Elite unit thats entire purpose is killing other Elite units in sudden shock assaults cannot function within 8/9th on D1 weaponry. It's why Incubi were always problematic, it's why Praetorians were always awful and it's why BGV, Praetorians and Incubi now have D2 weapons. Keeping Banshees on D1 weaponry, but increasing their attacks shifts the job of the unit into horde blending, which is not and never has been what Banshees are about, on the tabletop or in-lore. They have always been the pre-eminent Marine-killers at least in theory if not in practice. You cannot be a Marine-killer if you're D1.


power swords ignoring armor or not I find it..... doubtful that a T3 S3 Melee unit has EVER been a "pre-eminant marine killer"



2nd ed was the last time the Eldar ever really played like they were supposed to. And banshees slaughtered marines.

Power swords were s5, wounding marines on a 3+. Banshee masks ignored overwatch and the target rolled no attack dice.

What this meant was that a squad of banshees charging any unit, roll an average of 4 on their attack dice (2 dice for sword and pistol pick the highest) while their target rolled nothing. For every pt higher the combined ws + charge and dice where than the target, it took that many hits. So a charging banshee would on average score 5 s5 asm-3 hits on EACH marine they were btb with.

That included characters. Marine characters would drop like a sack against them. High ws didn't mean much when you can't roll any dice, and outnumbering gives you the upper hand. Charging alone made them ws5, so their average roll was a total of 9, beating every marine character, special or otherwise and scoring 1-3 hits depending on their targets ws



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/23 11:31:23


 
   
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 alextroy wrote:
Really? There were no durability increases in Codex Space Marines nor Codex Necrons?

Sorry, but you are just wrong. They are adjusting both damage and durability. Damage is increasing, but not against static durability.


Space marine infantry got more durable, 1w necron infantry got more durable, multiwound necron infantry got less durable, and necron vehicles got less durable (against dedicated antitank weaponry, anyway.)

And from these previews and the forgeworld work, it does not look like eldar are seeing any kind of useful durability increases. The wraithseer got an unspeakably stupid defensive rule tacked on and lost wounds, resulting in a model that costs the same as an Ironclad dreadnought and takes roughly 2/3 the firepower to take out while dealing significantly less damage to basically every target. Unless GW sneaks some kind of durability increase into the "battle focus" rule, Eldar are looking to be full glass cannon mode 'hope you make your points back in a single turn'.

Which, they might be able to, looking at Incubi. Those guys look like absolute cancer to play against. Drukhari and CWE might end up just absolute turn 2 tabling nightmare armies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/23 12:23:43


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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Tacoma, WA, USA

Most of the Eldar units seem to have some sort of durability increase in the IA Compendium. There are a number of -1 To Hit by ranged attacks and static Invulnerable Saves I don't recall being on units. The Wraithseer does seem to be on the short end of the list with the AP -1 counts as AP 0, but it's better than nothing.
   
 
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