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Made in us
Nervous Accuser




Atlanta, Ga

As it's been for a few years now, I've had a few extra discussions with my local group about using more fortifications in our games. The Shop that we all frequent happens to have a nice selection, seeing as several of us have contributed to it over the years and all of them are open the use, free to field for whoever plays. It's just that with all of the points changes, the rules and abilities being adjusted.

There are only a few viable options that we can see at this point. The Skyshield Landing Pad, Imperial Bastion and even the Fortress of Redemtion are all mostly the ones I see played, when fortifications are an option at all anyway.

I know that fortifications have a strange history within the game and it's one that's recently gotten several new models, as well as rules being pumped into it. Tau fortification models not withstanding in that same regard.

Has anyone else had some of their own issues with running fortifications?
Are we going to see some new rules pop up for them in the near future?


One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food? 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

Fortifications are unplayable, unless you house rule them. They are overcosted, they hit on 5+, even if a unit is embarked, they cant be set up within 3" of other terrain, and they are destroyed when you cant place them. They cant hold objective markers. Just like transports, units inside cannot normally do anything, or be affected in any way while they are embarked, which creates ridiculous situations.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





 Oborosen wrote:
As it's been for a few years now, I've had a few extra discussions with my local group about using more fortifications in our games. The Shop that we all frequent happens to have a nice selection, seeing as several of us have contributed to it over the years and all of them are open the use, free to field for whoever plays. It's just that with all of the points changes, the rules and abilities being adjusted.

There are only a few viable options that we can see at this point. The Skyshield Landing Pad, Imperial Bastion and even the Fortress of Redemtion are all mostly the ones I see played, when fortifications are an option at all anyway.

I know that fortifications have a strange history within the game and it's one that's recently gotten several new models, as well as rules being pumped into it. Tau fortification models not withstanding in that same regard.

Has anyone else had some of their own issues with running fortifications?
Are we going to see some new rules pop up for them in the near future?



Fortifications are just terrible. As p5freak said, without house rules, they're often literally unplayable.

They must be set up after all other terrain on the board, and must be set up 3" away from other terrain, or be destroyed. This basically makes any large fortifications [like the skyshield pad, battle sanctum, fortress of redemption, or aquila redoubt] outright unable to be placed on the table and automatically destroyed in most tables with even a below-average terrain density, leaving only a couple of small ones like the vengeance gun emplacement or bunker as even possible to be used.

Then, that small selection of even possible to be used comes with both the tax of having to be in it's own detachment and being aggressively detrimental to take even if it didn't have to be. For carrying infantry, it's like having a transport that can't move and takes your infantry out of the game as a contributing element to scoring, maneuver, or fire on it's own basically. As a weapons system, they're basically all BS-5+ with overwhelmingly lame weapons. And they're not even cheap points wise. You might as well just take a tank, you'll get better firepower, and the ability to move.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Nervous Accuser




Atlanta, Ga

Makes me wonder why fortifications can't fire using a supporting units BS anymore.

Then again, that keeps you from abusing a Plasma battery and having your Vindicare fire the damn thing.

A BS+2, Ignores cover rule for your massive pie plate of a shot... sounds like fun.

One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food? 
   
Made in de
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






One fortification I could see working though are IG Tarantulas (now counting as fortifications in 9th)

Basically two Heavy Bolters for 40 or two Lascannons for 50 points, with non-degrading BS 4+, T5, W4, 3+. Their stats are arguably better than two heavy weapons teams with those weapons (same wounds, weapons, BS, better T and Sv+, less points), but they cannot freely choose their targets. At least they have the range to be of some use, even if restricted to your deployment zone.
Note that I'm not saying they are strong, they just seem useable.


~4000 build and painted 
   
Made in fi
Focused Fire Warrior






Fortifications have actual rules for them? I've always just used them as terrain. We've always used Bastions just as buildings, and the skyshield landing platform only as an elevated position. So they have actual rules as well? Which codex do they come with?
   
Made in gb
Fighter Ace





They're in the main rulebook aren't they?
They've had rules as far back as 6th edition I think, to encourage people to buy them even if they're not building their own table.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Heroic Senior Officer





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

They're in the IG/AM codex, and the 2017 Chapter Approved (the only paper one I have to hand).
Battlescribe thinks the Firestorm redoubt is in the Index:Imperium 2.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/01/04 10:31:28


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Clubs around Coventry, UK 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

Current fortification rules are in CA 2019, i think. Or battlescribe.
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





I take it this thread is meant only for discussion of UNALIGNED fortifications?

I love my Battle Sanctum, and I've got eyes on both the GSC's Tectonic Frag Drill and the Chaos Noctalith Crown.

I like the way the fortification network detachment refunds CP if the fortifications in it are from your warlord's faction.
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos





IMO not very viable, unfortunately. How many large dinner plates can you put down in your deployment zone for a typical game? Particularly deploying on the long edge? The Bastion needs a 14" long empty space.

For new rules, I could definitely see it, as they are releasing more fortifications and they tried to push that "Bring your own terrain" mission set with the "Ammunition Storage" terrain piece with no visible ammunition or storage a few months back. So maybe they could expand that to add fortifications, but I have not heard of anyone using those rules, so maybe not.
   
Made in au
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





I mean, they come in 3 forms right?

Immobile transports,
Immobile weapon batteries,
Faction terrain which can be either of the above or a buffing piece (however bad they may be)

The transports don't let you use most buffs so have a rather limited use.
The weapon batteries struggle with hitting on 5s but have some okay weapons a faction may not have.
Faction terrains are a mixed bag. Some are utter garbage, such as the Ork one and some are okay.

Fact is that the current fortification system feels more like an afterthought than anything else. You could have fun with some houserules, but you'd only take them to a tourney if you were memeing or had a very, very specific plan in mind.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/05 00:22:36


 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress





As part of your army? They're a heft handicap.

As part of the battlefid as a neutral NPC interactive terrain thing that anyone can use at any time? Perfect.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





Fortifications are great if you just deploy them midboard and give them a rule whereby they are part of a player's army if they are holding the fortification like an objective.

If the terrain is destructible and neither player is holding it, then both players can choose to attack it and it does not act.

Really makes the game board more interesting and interactive.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest




With the amount of terrain 9th calls for, they have the same problem as the Monolith. Namely, where do do you put them?

If you're using them like the Scottsman said above, that's cool. If you're trying to deploy them as an actual part of your army? Good luck.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Forts needs a 100% complete overhaul to core rules, mix with the terrain rules, and their rules as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/05 23:48:08


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