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Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

The aim of this thread is to provide new players considering starting a Dark Angels (DA) force a one-stop shop to see the basics and give a place for DA players to share experience. It is not meant to be a complaint department about GW balance/prices/lore/nutrional values. The Dark Angels (DA) play much like other Space Marines (SM), sharing baseline stats, units, strats and weapons.

The Spoiler has a list of DA units, focused on those unique to the DA but not ignoring standard SM units that either form an important part of a DA list or behave differently when DA. While I play DA regularly and take them to local tourneys, I don’t claim to be a tactical genius! I will update the rankings based on input from the community (curated?) and observations from the meta. Full credit to those who contribute! Tiers can be fun to discuss, but new players should take all this with a grain of salt.

How Dark Angels Play Differently.

The Dark Angels’ Chapter Tactic Grim Resolve favours standing still – you get a +1 to hit when you do not move. So if you like Devastators etc you are in the right Chapter. You also automatically pass Combat Attrition tests. This means you can take large squads - can be useful for maxing the effectiveness of certain Strats.

Their Super Doctrine, though, is quite different. It changes as the Doctrines advance. Ravenwing get a bonus in Devastator Doctrine, normal infantry get a bonus in the Tactical Doctrine and Deathwing Infantry/Dreadnoughts gain a bonus in the Assault Doctrine. The Ravenwing aspect is probably the most important.

When you are in Devastator Doctrine, your Ravenwing units gain a +3 inch bonus to Movement and can Advance and shoot.

When you are in Tactical Doctrine your non-Deathwing infantry can shoot when they are in Engagement Range.

When you are in Assault Doctrine your Deathwing can re-roll Wounds against characters and models with 8 wounds or more.

There are also two important Abilities for certain Dark Angels units. Inner Circle, granted to all Terminators, certain characters, Bladeguard Veterans and Ravenwing Blacknights, provides several bonuses to resilience and morale. Deathwing Terminators and Raven Black Knights, for instance, pass all morale tests. Jink, granted to all Ravenwing units, provides an invul to shooting.

Dark Angels Terminators and Bikers are more resilient than other Chapters. Due to Inner Circle, Wound rolls of 1 to 3 always fail against Terminators (and all Infantry with Inner Circle). This is huge. Bikers have Jink which gives them an invul against shooting (unless they stay still in their movement phase). If you love Terminators and Bikes, you really can’t go wrong playing Dark Angels this edition.

Key Stratagems: Weapons from the Dark Age for added plasma damage; Intractable to Fall Back and shoot; Line Unbreakable to mitigate hordes in melee.

Warlord Traits – Brilliant Strategist is the stand-out. If you have a Deathwing Character (including an Ancient or Apothecary) then spend the CP to have a second trait and take Watched to say “Not Today” to a single psychic power once per game. This one is situational, but has done great work!

Psychic Powers – Engulfing Fear (messes with the enemy’s Obsec and Actions) and Mind Wipe (disrupts an aura) look great to disrupt the enemy. I think that Engulfing Fear can swing a game. Are these worth losing access to Abhor the Witch? Not sure. A Deathwing-heavy force can have several Deny attempts without taking a Psyker (Watchers in the Dark).

Relics. The Reliquary of the Repentant on a Ravenwing character can make Harlequins cry by taking their Invul to a 5++. It has changed a bit, but I used this one a lot with the Index. The Pennant of Remembrance reduces damage on Deathwing Infantry Core by 1. Yes please.

Units

Spoiler:
Top Tier/A++ (These guys will more than pull their weight)

Azrael. His 4++ Invul aura against shooting and re-roll auras do make you tend to clump up, but he can lead a force onto the middle of the board seize those mid-field objectives.

Ravenwing Apothecary. All Apothecaries are good right now, but this one has mobility. You can also give him Ravenwing Relics. Since he has the Inner Circle keyword it seems he can go in a 1st Company Detachment without breaking it.

Deathwing Terminators. These guys are very resilient now with Inner Circle (built-in Transhuman Physiology) and combine shooting with melee. Normally 40K favours specialized units, but these guys can do anything anywhere (especially with Cyclone Missile Launchers and maybe a single Storm Shield in the squad). Obsec in a Deathwing Detachment is great. Back these guys up with an Apothecary to stay in the fight and group them with Azrael. That objective is yours.

Deathwing Command Squad. Strengths of the Deathwing Terminators in a more flexible squad-sized package. Gives you small units in a DW list to grab objectives/perform Actions.

Good Tier (A)

Bladeguard Veterans. Very survivable (Inner Circle!), hit hard in melee. Take and hold objectives. Economical cost in a DW list.

Attack Bikes with Melta. The survivability of RW combined with access to a fast Apothecary make them hard-hitters that can also take some punishment.

Sammael. Trending to Top Tier when taken in a Ravenwing Detachment. He only rides on Corvex now - his Landspeeder option is gone.

Ezekiel. The Dark Angels have very useful psychic powers, and Ezekiel can really take advantage of them. Not sure if he is an auto-include yet, but trending that way.

Inceptors with Plasma. Weapons from the Dark Age means these guys can drop in and kill almost anything if you commit to overcharging. Going to Damage 3 overcomes wound-reducing mechanisms that seem to be more prevalent.

Ravenwing Talonmaster. Gives a Lieutenant-buff while also clearing chaff with his guns. Can use character protection to hang in there longer.

Deathwing Knights. A threat to anything in close combat and very resilient. No shooting, but they can take and hold those mid-field or opponent-zone objectives. They would go to Top Tier with Obsec.

Deathwing Ancient: Combine with the Relic to make your bit Deathwing Squad even more resilient.

Ravenwing Black Knights. Mobility, survivability (Jink) and firepower (plasma with Weapons from the Dark Age) is a potent combo.

Eradicators. Although great in any SM list, they do break Deathwing/Ravenwing for those Detachments. The Dark Angels Chapter Tactic doesn’t really help them all that much since they want to be moving forward. They do, however, benefit from being in the Azrael bubble.

Solid Tier (B)

Dark Talon. The ability to dish out Mortal Wounds is great, and High Speed Focus can keep it alive longer than other SM flyers.

Belial. Lack of mobility is his downside, and Azrael can go in a DW detachment. If he is melee, though, he can shred!

Outriders. These are a mainstream SM unit, but as Ravenwing they give you a melee punch that a RW force can lack.

Hellblasters. Weapons from the Dark Age means that these guys can outperform their standard SM counterparts. Still outperformed themselves by Plasma Inceptors and Black Knights, but their range advantage gives them a place in some lists.

Nephilim Jetfigher. Can spit out an eye-watering amount of D2 firepower.

Deathwing Apothecary. If you really want to teleport an Apothecary then he's the one. Otherwise just take the RW one.

Fluffy Tier/ C- (you take these guys because you really really want to).

Lazarus. He isn’t that fluffy, but at least he has a name?


The Wings

If you are playing a Dark Angels force, you need to decide on your theme. A Dark Angel can choose to play “Greenwing” with standard Space Marine units; you can play Deathwing or you can play Ravenwing. You also have Mixed Wing!

Greenwing. At its core, a Greenwing Battalion at 1500 points will have Intercessor Squads or Tactical Squads with a Captain (or Azrael). They can hold the objectives in your own deployment zone and challenge the mid-field. A Devastator Squad benefits from the Dark Angels Chapter Tactic. Both Hellblasters and Plasma Inceptors can really benefit from Weapons from the Dark Age, boosting their damage by 1. Committing to overcharging and using the Stratagem can overcome units that rely on damage reduction and can melt most tanks. Have an Apothecary to bring at least one back if they roll a 1 twice (always have a Captain or Azrael supporting your Plasma). Plasma Inceptors have the bonus of being able to come in on Turn 2, mitigating the effect of going second. The Intractable strat on Eradicators or Hellblasters can be a nasty surprise. Line Unbreakable (a somewhat situation strat that can mitigate hordes in melee) and the Fire Discipline Super Doctrine (shoot in melee) can really help Intercessors take and hold the middle of the board. A pure Greenwing detachment with Azrael can do some great work. It won’t be flashy, but it will be solid. Just how Dark Angels like to be.

The Deathwing. Deathwing Terminators are in a good place right now, due in no small part to the Inner Circle ability that gives them baked-in Transhuman. A Deathwing Detachment gives your Deathwing Terminators Obsec. Use a Deathwing Warlord (including Azrael) to refund the CP for the Vanguard. A ten-man squad of Deathwing Terminators with Cyclone Missile Launchers backed up by a Deathwing Apothecary, Deathwing Ancient with the Pennant of Remembrance, Bladeguard Veterans and Deathwing Knights can either march up the middle or teleport on Turn 2/3. Dreadnoughts upgraded to the Deathwing give you something to hold home-field objectives while still contributing to the fight. This list is very resilient and killy, but can lack board presence and once it’s committed as it lacks mobility.

The Ravenwing. Ravenwing Bikers (various types) have the Jink ability, which gives them a 5++ when they move and a 4++ when they advance. They still get the 5++ for the opponent’s first shooting phase if they go second. A Ravenwing Detachment gives your Bikers Obsec, which can be decisive in 9th Edition. Ravenwing are fast to begin with, and can use some Strats to boost their mobility. Sammel, a Talonmaster, squadrons of Outriders and Ravenwing Bikers and at least one decent-sized Ravenwing Black Knight squadron give you tools to seize or flip objectives. In Devastator Doctrine your Ravenwing get +3” to move and can Advance and shoot as if it was equipped with Assault Weapons. This means that several squads of Ravenwing Bikers can zoom up the board, gain a 4++ Invul due to their Jink and still shoot their weapons. A single squad can be an effective distraction, but a Ravenwing Detachment can use this to really dominate a section of the board early. They are vulnerable to getting stuck in protracted combats. They can use some Strats to fall-back and shoot/assault to mitigate this.

Mixed Wing. You can blend Ravenwing and Deathwing units into a standard DA list without penalty – you just miss out on the Obsec. I think that any Greenwing list can benefit from a Deathwing Squad and a Ravenwing Squad. Azrael, a Talonmaster, a Ravenwing Apothecary, a large Deathwing Terminator Squad and a Ravenwing (take your pick) squadron go really well with a baseline of Intercessors, Plasma Inceptors and Devastators/Hellblasters. I think that this will be the strongest design. The Ravenwing squad (or squads) disrupt the enemy early-on. The Deathwing component dominates the mid-field Turn 2 to 5 and the Intercessors hold the back-field. Plasma Inceptors can drop well with Deathwing, while Eradicators can trudge along in a Deathwing/Azreal/Apothecary bubble. The Deathwing mow-down hordes while the Eradicators eradicate. Azrael and the Apothecary make the group more resilient and more killy. I used something like this to win a local tourney with the Index – take that with a grain of salt but it’s not just theory-hammer.


Another approach is to take a Greenwing Patrol with a Captain, two Intecessor Squads, a Plasma Inceptor Squad and a Devastator Squad to support either a Ravenwing or Deathwing Detachment. Effective DW or RW detachments will usually cost around 1000 points, meaning you could take a decent Greenwing Patrol to support them. With the Warlord in your DW/RW Detachment, taking the Patrol costs you 2 CP but gives you board control and fire support. Your Greenwing Patrol holds your deployment Zone while your specialized DW or RW detachment goes out and wins the game by taking the mid-field and enemy objectives.

Looking forward to hearing from other Dark Angels! I will edit the tiers under the spoilers as we go if there is interest.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/02/15 02:46:37


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

A couple of times in there you mention Terminators getting the built-in Transhuman Physiology bonus; it actually applies to all Deathwing infantry units, including the special characters and Bladeguard Vets. That's huge, as Bladeguard are a pretty solid unit and cheaper than actual Terminators (I think; I don't have the book yet).

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

 ZergSmasher wrote:
A couple of times in there you mention Terminators getting the built-in Transhuman Physiology bonus; it actually applies to all Deathwing infantry units, including the special characters and Bladeguard Vets. That's huge, as Bladeguard are a pretty solid unit and cheaper than actual Terminators (I think; I don't have the book yet).


In the Spoiler under Bladeguard I mention Inner Circle. I’ll make it more clear about Inner Circle for all Deathwing infantry (I've edited the first post to remove confusion).

Bladeguard indeed make a good support unit in DW as they can be taken in squads of three and are therefore a little cheaper.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/07 13:46:08


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






 ZergSmasher wrote:
A couple of times in there you mention Terminators getting the built-in Transhuman Physiology bonus; it actually applies to all Deathwing infantry units, including the special characters and Bladeguard Vets. That's huge, as Bladeguard are a pretty solid unit and cheaper than actual Terminators (I think; I don't have the book yet).


Lightning claw terminators are cheaper by two points. Which is fair as they don’t have 4++ nor any shooting. All Terminator variants and BGV all have their use

Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

The shooting advantage of standard Deathwing Terminators puts them over Bladeguard Veterans for me. For my games with the Index though, the Bladeguard Veterans gave a good support squad. Their smaller squad minimum size allows them to provide a useful unit at a cheaper points cost. They can hold/contest objectives and perform Actions. I think they work well in any list, including a pure Deathwing Detachment. I also find they get the job done without needing character or Stratagem support due to their high number of attacks with S5 damage 2 weapons.

Looking for feedback for the unit ranking under the Spoiler. Hoping it can be a resource for players contemplating Dark Angels.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Per the video linked below, you can make a very points-efficient DA Interrogator Chaplain who’s an absolute blender in melee.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VL4ePxAaCn0&t=304s
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut





I have been buildings Deathwing lists with a core Patrol consisting of a Primaris Chaplain, Infiltrator OR Intercessor, Ravenwing Apothercary, MM Attack Bike squad and 5 man Inceptor squad. Can't leave home without this detachment for 800-825pts.

That leaves the Deathwing detachment where for me everything is almost locked in. 10 man DW Squad, 5 Man DW Knight Squad, 3 2 man command squads and finally an Ancient.

Thoughts on HQ to support this army?

Im thinking a Termie Librarian.

But my new consideration is a Captain on Bike with Chapter Master and Deathwing Keyword. For 160pts he's not cheap, basically Azrael in cost. But the difference being on bike is hes mobile and can go out and do potentially more damage with one of the swords or chainsword relics and double traits to blend. His Chapter Master buff probably goes to Inceptors or Attack Bikes, and he'll sit with the big block of terminators until he needs to launch.

What do you guys think? Or Maybe Azrael will come into contention to really make the 10 man block durable but lose out on mobility.
   
Made in it
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





Sesto San Giovanni, Italy

For the Master on Bike I think the Relics and the Warlord Traits available will make it or break it. I need to check the full Codex.

On army composition, since I'm still in the field of unproven theories (due to Covid), I'm orienting towards a FULL bi-wing (Deathwing and Ravenwing) with full ObSec.
That should be a Vanguard + another Detachment (I think a Patrol will suffice but an Outrider may be used if needed).
You sacrifice backfield controls and Devastators, but I think Deathwing Dreadnought may cover you. You also lose indirect fire with Whirlwinds, but thanks to the Ravenwing elements you should be able to reach hidden units. Also few Primaris units, but I despise them anyway.
Some models like Black Knight or the Ravenwing Apothecary should be able to be put in either detachment.
Maybe this will require some mandatory psychic power to work (for example negate ObSec to your opponent, since you have it on everyone but the army will be very small) but O think will be an engaging and challenging army to play, and is a funny break from the Greenwing-heavy infantry firebase I had to use during basically the entirety of8th edition.

PS: I have a question for the OP: aren't Deathwing Command Squad limited (one per army)???
If not, they're REALLY powerful... Basically a smaller terminator squad to exploit even more the MSU on the board. I've taken for granted they were limited as 1 per army

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/02/08 11:13:11


I can't condone a place where abusers and abused are threated the same: it's destined to doom, so there is no reason to participate in it. 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





They are not limited, but they pay an extra over the regular terminator model.

They also don't get Obsec in the DW detachment.
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

The Deathwing Command Squad is a great little unit - you can take one in a "free slot" if you a Deathwing Terminator Captain. I think the only limitation is the Rule of Three.

I've been looking at the Dark Angels' Secondaries. Its all theory right now (back in Lockdown).

Martial Interdiction looks fluffy, but I think it will usually lead to disappointment. Could work if your opponent's list doesn't offer much in the way of Bring it Down or Assassinate. Might be an option if your opponent relies on a few, squishy characters and you have Sammael? I found with the Index that Sammael on Corvex could be a good character assassin. Belial will have a hard time catching anyone, but maybe with a well placed teleport?. Still, I suppose it lets you add some narrative to your Matched Play!

Death on the Wind is clearly for Ravenwing players. Destroying 8 enemy units (to max out at 15 points) is certainly possible, but watch out for the restrictions on moving over 12" or melee. I guess you could take this over Grind them Down if you want to guarantee a few points.

Stubborn Defiance looks amazing. Holding an objective of your choice for the whole game to get 15 points looks very doable. It does, though, require you to hold it with the same Obsec unit for the consecutive turn scoring (the rule says "that unit". This paints a huge target on "that unit" so I think you need to commit something like an Obsec Deathwing squad or a full-size Tactical/Intercessor squad with Apothecary support. Still, I think its the winner of the group and will be the one we see.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So I noticed that on the Deathwing promotions chart or whatever, you can induct a "Captain" for X amount of points. Does this mean I can promote a standard power armor (non-terminator armor) wearing captain to the deathwing order? Is it inferred anywhere that this captain must be wearing terminator armor?
   
Made in it
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





Sesto San Giovanni, Italy

Answering by the fluff, Deathwing is the name for the Veterans of the Chapter that do not use power armour (that's why, at least originally, we didn't have standard Veteran).

Any Character is a member of the Inner Circle, and of the Deathwing by extension. That said only Belial was specifically a Deathwing Character for the purpose of the formation in previous edition.

So, if the table say so, than yes. I think the new book manage that a little differently due to the mess of Keyword, duplicate Terminators and Dreadnought entries with the base Marine Codex and such.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/08 23:55:27


I can't condone a place where abusers and abused are threated the same: it's destined to doom, so there is no reason to participate in it. 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

The 1st Company rule is quite permissive - much more so than the 2nd Company. As it reads, anything with Inner Circle can go in a Vanguard without breaking 1st Company. The Rites of Initiation are also broad.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut





eternalxfl wrote:
So I noticed that on the Deathwing promotions chart or whatever, you can induct a "Captain" for X amount of points. Does this mean I can promote a standard power armor (non-terminator armor) wearing captain to the deathwing order? Is it inferred anywhere that this captain must be wearing terminator armor?


Yes anything with Captain keyword can be promoted to Deathwing which makes sense as having Deathwing lead all the other companies. This is what I am looking at doing for my Vanguard detachment so as not to break the obsec rule for terminators
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The Deathwing Command Squad is a great little unit - you can take one in a "free slot" if you a Deathwing Terminator Captain. I think the only limitation is the Rule of Three.

I've been looking at the Dark Angels' Secondaries. Its all theory right now (back in Lockdown).

Martial Interdiction looks fluffy, but I think it will usually lead to disappointment. Could work if your opponent's list doesn't offer much in the way of Bring it Down or Assassinate. Might be an option if your opponent relies on a few, squishy characters and you have Sammael? I found with the Index that Sammael on Corvex could be a good character assassin. Belial will have a hard time catching anyone, but maybe with a well placed teleport?. Still, I suppose it lets you add some narrative to your Matched Play!

Death on the Wind is clearly for Ravenwing players. Destroying 8 enemy units (to max out at 15 points) is certainly possible, but watch out for the restrictions on moving over 12" or melee. I guess you could take this over Grind them Down if you want to guarantee a few points.

Stubborn Defiance looks amazing. Holding an objective of your choice for the whole game to get 15 points looks very doable. It does, though, require you to hold it with the same Obsec unit for the consecutive turn scoring (the rule says "that unit". This paints a huge target on "that unit" so I think you need to commit something like an Obsec Deathwing squad or a full-size Tactical/Intercessor squad with Apothecary support. Still, I think its the winner of the group and will be the one we see.


Be wary when using an inner circle unit and the Stubborn Defiance secondary when facing orks. If they can get a bead on the unit with smashagunz the unit will vanish as they get around transhuman type abilities with their wounding mechanic.
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut





cody.d. wrote:


Be wary when using an inner circle unit and the Stubborn Defiance secondary when facing orks. If they can get a bead on the unit with smashagunz the unit will vanish as they get around transhuman type abilities with their wounding mechanic.


Yes it will be important to know your enemy before picking secondaries. Luckily you go through army over view before you pick.

Curious how the Orks get around transhuman?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/09 04:06:45


 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





The smasha gun uses a special wounding roll . It rolls 2d6 and has to beat your T value to wound.
The final effect is that it averages between strenght 7 and 8, but it is especially mean against transhuman effects. It wounds a DWK more often than a 2+.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/09 07:48:01


 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





 Smirrors wrote:
cody.d. wrote:


Be wary when using an inner circle unit and the Stubborn Defiance secondary when facing orks. If they can get a bead on the unit with smashagunz the unit will vanish as they get around transhuman type abilities with their wounding mechanic.


Yes it will be important to know your enemy before picking secondaries. Luckily you go through army over view before you pick.

Curious how the Orks get around transhuman?


The Smashagun is a very odd weapon. In it's ruling is specifically states that INSTEAD of a wound roll you roll 2D6 and try to match or exceed the targets toughness. If you do you successfully wound so you skip the step of the wound roll entirely. And trust me, most ork players will be taking 1 or 6 of these guns as they're disgustingly cheap for their quality. Probably one of the handful of units keeping orks competitive ATM honestly.
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan





Florida

As someone who is new to Dark Angels, I do like to read various opinions and options available in a single location. Having said that, I have been unable to locate the rules for Grim Resolve. Can anyone provide page#? The Codex references it, but I can't find what it actually does.

No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Its In the chapter tactics section of Codex Space Marines.

You need both codex and supplement to get the most out of Dark Angels.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/09 13:57:07


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




princeyg wrote:
Its In the chapter tactics section of Codex Space Marines.

You need both codex and supplement to get the most out of Dark Angels.

So are Grim Resolve and the Devastator Doctrine bonus (+6" to range) still active for DA? I was listening to a podcast where they said they have been replaced by the new "Sons of the Lion" rules. I'm starting to get a bit confused...
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

eternalxfl wrote:
princeyg wrote:
Its In the chapter tactics section of Codex Space Marines.

You need both codex and supplement to get the most out of Dark Angels.

So are Grim Resolve and the Devastator Doctrine bonus (+6" to range) still active for DA? I was listening to a podcast where they said they have been replaced by the new "Sons of the Lion" rules. I'm starting to get a bit confused...


Range bonus is gone. I can make the first post more clear without becoming a Codex replacement either.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in mt
Been Around the Block



Sweden

A question about swords. Heavenfall Blade vs The Burning Blade? Which one do you prefer? Or is it "Secret option 3", Teeth of Terra?
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

Agusto wrote:
A question about swords. Heavenfall Blade vs The Burning Blade? Which one do you prefer? Or is it "Secret option 3", Teeth of Terra?


Definitely Heavenfall Blade for Talonmasters!

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Teeth of Terra has some usefulness for a generic bike captain or something (in the event you don't take Sammael for some reason).

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




Vancouver, BC

Agusto wrote:
A question about swords. Heavenfall Blade vs The Burning Blade? Which one do you prefer? Or is it "Secret option 3", Teeth of Terra?

To start let's examine what the melee profile of the character using these weapons will looks like after applying them, in this case we'll use a Captain for our comparison:

Astartes Chainsword: 5 Attacks @ S4 AP-1 D1
Teeth of Terra: 7 Attacks @ S5 AP-2 D2
Power Sword: 4 Attacks @ S5 AP-3 D1
MC Power Sword: 4 Attacks @ S5 AP-3 D2
The Burning Blade: 4 Attacks @ S7 AP-5 D2
Heavenfall Blade: 5 Attacks @ S6 AP-4 D2
Blade of Burden: 4 Attacks @ S6 AP-4 D2 - When resolving an attack made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 2 mortal wounds on the target and the attack sequence ends.
Thunderhammer: 4 Attacks @ S8 AP-2 D3 - Each time an attack is made with this weapon, subtract 1 from that attack’s hit roll.

Looking at the above list you'd essentially never want to gimp your dedicated CC character with a default weapon so let's chuck those and look at the specialist options:

Teeth of Terra: 7 Attacks @ S5 AP-2 D2
MC Power Sword: 4 Attacks @ S5 AP-3 D2
The Burning Blade: 4 Attacks @ S7 AP-5 D2
Heavenfall Blade: 5 Attacks @ S6 AP-4 D2
Blade of Burden: 4 Attacks @ S6 AP-4 D2 - When resolving an attack made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 2 mortal wounds on the target and the attack sequence ends.
Thunderhammer: 4 Attacks @ S8 AP-2 D3 - Each time an attack is made with this weapon, subtract 1 from that attack’s hit roll.

The Teeth of Terra is a great option for clearing hordes, anything with armor 5+ never gets a save and 4+ loses that save in later turns as tactical doctrine kicks in.

I'd always take the Heavenfall Blade over the Burning Blade as +1 attack will be better than +1S AP-1 against most targets.

For anti-armor/MC work Thunderhammers still shine as going from +5 to wound +4 can be a huge change.


   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut





TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Agusto wrote:
A question about swords. Heavenfall Blade vs The Burning Blade? Which one do you prefer? Or is it "Secret option 3", Teeth of Terra?


Definitely Heavenfall Blade for Talonmasters!


So many decent relic options, I think the Arbiters Gaze would be chosen more often. The only time I would consider a Heavenfall Blade would be in an all Ravenwing Army and that would be to use it with the Swift Strike strategem to hit and run


Automatically Appended Next Post:
eternalxfl wrote:

So are Grim Resolve and the Devastator Doctrine bonus (+6" to range) still active for DA? I was listening to a podcast where they said they have been replaced by the new "Sons of the Lion" rules. I'm starting to get a bit confused...


The Space Marine Codex gives us our Chapter Tactic Grim Resolve of +1 to hit etc. Also we have access to vanilla stratagems, relics, warlord traits, secondary objectives and the the core list of units.

The Dark Angel Supplement adds our unique units, Super Doctrine, exclusive stratagems, warlord traits, relics and stratagems.

You need BOTH to play Dark Angels

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/10 02:47:23


 
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan






Austin, Texas.

Do you guys think a space marine captain or a chaplain is better on a bike as an aggro CC threat?
Both seam to be able to do similar damage, with slightly different buffing affects to nearby core. Roll with some outriders/ attack bikes

I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Do you guys think a space marine captain or a chaplain is better on a bike as an aggro CC threat?
Both seam to be able to do similar damage, with slightly different buffing affects to nearby core. Roll with some outriders/ attack bikes

You can set up a Primaris Bike Chaplain to be a nasty beatstick character, but to do it most effectively his litanies will be ones that mainly buff himself. Give him the relic crozius, The Imperium's Sword warlord trait, and the Mantra of Strength as his litany and he'll wreck almost anything he touches. But he gives up his ability to help his friends out to do this. If you want him as a buff machine, probably make him a Master of Sanctity (so he can do double litanies), Wise Orator, and I'm not sure what relic would be best, and choose whichever litanies will best help your list.

The Bike Captain, on the other hand, can be given a wide variety of weapons, including some very nice relics like the Teeth of Terra or the Heavenfall Blade. Not sure a Storm Shield is worth it on him anymore (although a 2+ save is nice). And his aura always buffs any CORE stuff around him, which is nice. He also has a good selection of warlord traits that can either buff him or guys around him and could take a Chapter Master upgrade (if you don't have Azrael in the same list).

Honestly, it's not super easy to choose between the two, as both have their uses. They do different things, so you should take whichever one would most benefit your list. Personally I prefer Sammael to a regular Bike Captain, but if you were running Successors for some reason (which isn't as terrible an idea as it sounds, although actual DA are better IMO), you're stuck with the generic guy.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in de
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator






Quick question about Bladeguard in a DW detatchment. How do you transport them? Just let them walk?

The repulsor still doesn't sound like a good deal with that high points cost and no invul-save. I think in the preview they said Impulsors can't be DW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/10 08:51:54


 
   
 
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