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So at some point soon, some of you may have them, or the rest of us by the end of the year latest you'd hope...

So, in all marine chapters, they may not be optimal, but in some they could be potent. This is what this thread is for.

So first things first, compared to a standard intercessor 5x squad, they are 40pts more for -1" movement, +1 T and W, and have a +1 S and +6" range on the corresponding version of the intercessor weapons (or +8pts more each per model), and the sergeant cannot take a melee weapon. They can take a version of a heavy bolter though, taking 1x for 10pts our 5 models.

So, ways in which people perceive getting use out of them?

I think white scars, swapping out 1x MSU intercessors squad with auto bolt rifles for a squad of 5x of these with the hellstorm version (assault) could be potent for getting up the board and holding objectives, the ability to advance and still shoot optimally on a 'slow' unit could make them viable. The added durability, then buffing that even more maybe with apothecarys, transhuman etc etc could make them a very good lynch pin to hold out on objectives. Being assaulted is always going to be an issue with them, but early game they could be very hard to shift and accumulate points. Not including the heavy bolter upgrade here but it may be something you want to consider.

In theory I like Ultramarines on them. Since they hit like wet noodles in melee for the price, the ability to fall back and shoot helps with their offensive output if they get caught in the middle of the board.

Dark Angels maybe, with holding a deployment objective, and the extra weapon range over normal intercessors could mean they can shoot at 2+ nearly all game which sometimes normal intercessors are out ranged the first turn and again, ideally be in cover also so will still be a durable unit that is hard to shoot off said objective. To do it efficiently you're going to need to bring out heavy damage and AP weapons... At which point those aren't being fired at your Deathwing etc.

I don't think you will see many big squads of them, or even more than 1 or 2 squads per army but I think they may be viable. You just need to not rely on them to be mobile as well (other than white scars), you'd be crazy to buy a repulser for them, and I think you are just plain stupid to advance them after spending so much points to miss out on shooting them for a round, and as you say, if you do end up in combat, you want to be able to get out and still shoot ideally.

Imperial fists could be another with their synergy for bolt weapons. I can't see them being much use for BT, SW, BA and potentially Salamanders (though they do have interesting stratagems that may be of use), maybe IH's, maybe RG as well mainly to perform the role I said above of being back field and holding with good range.

I think the faction that 'MAY' get the most joy out of them is DW though, with the kill team options they open up to then have eradicators with ablative wounds etc.

Because I've fallen head over heels over the damage potential of Assault Intercessors, especially with either White Scars or Blood Angels, I'm leaning towards 1-2 Squads of 5 Heavy Intercessors with Executioner Bolt rifle/Heavy Bolter holding the back line. On average, they seem to do a decent amount of kills versus MEQ and higher toughness targets, though Auto-Bolt Rifle toting Intercessors seem to do more versus Deathguard and Custodes I think? I'd love to see someone else's math on this; bad arms means I can't type for too long.

Arcanis161 wrote:
Because I've fallen head over heels over the damage potential of Assault Intercessors, especially with either White Scars or Blood Angels, I'm leaning towards 1-2 Squads of 5 Heavy Intercessors with Executioner Bolt rifle/Heavy Bolter holding the back line. On average, they seem to do a decent amount of kills versus MEQ and higher toughness targets, though Auto-Bolt Rifle toting Intercessors seem to do more versus Deathguard and Custodes I think? I'd love to see someone else's math on this; bad arms means I can't type for too long.

You can't rely on mathhammer as there are too many variables in a game, however, this is one instance where I actually want one of those efficiency nerds to come in and lay it all out for me

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
In theory I like Ultramarines on them. Since they hit like wet noodles in melee for the price, the ability to fall back and shoot helps with their offensive output if they get caught in the middle of the board.

I also think Ultrasmurf is best for these dudes, fall back and shoot is the most important thing you need on them. I play DA and I don't see a use for them. Actually I don't really see a use for them aside from Ultra. Because SM lack bodies, normal intercessors or tac marines have a use these dudes don't have. If they get tagged in melee they become useless.

I think they are much better than normal intercessors to sit in home objetives shooting at stuff.

As a Custodes player, I look at these with abject terror. If Eradicators weren't designed to kill Custodes, these surely are. 2 shots at s5 ap2 flat 3 damage? or 4 shots at S5 AP2 2 damage? per model? Not even gonna guess what sort of redonkulous gun the SGT might carry, but if these get the double shooting rule I will go coocoo for Cocopuffs.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
As a Custodes player, I look at these with abject terror. If Eradicators weren't designed to kill Custodes, these surely are. 2 shots at s5 ap2 flat 3 damage? or 4 shots at S5 AP2 2 damage? per model? Not even gonna guess what sort of redonkulous gun the SGT might carry, but if these get the double shooting rule I will go coocoo for Cocopuffs.

They haven't here's the data sheet:



The two shot at 3D is one of the specific heavy bolters, they can only get 1x of those per 5x models.

Eradicators are still WAY better at killing custodes.

I think the most important factor with these dudes is they can take a heavy bolter on an infantry unit. So you can put out reliable mortal wounds with the stratagem. You could just take on a tactical squad but it would be a lot easier to just remove.

Yeah originally was gonna go Executor, but now not as sure.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
Because I've fallen head over heels over the damage potential of Assault Intercessors, especially with either White Scars or Blood Angels, I'm leaning towards 1-2 Squads of 5 Heavy Intercessors with Executioner Bolt rifle/Heavy Bolter holding the back line. On average, they seem to do a decent amount of kills versus MEQ and higher toughness targets, though Auto-Bolt Rifle toting Intercessors seem to do more versus Deathguard and Custodes I think? I'd love to see someone else's math on this; bad arms means I can't type for too long.

You can't rely on mathhammer as there are too many variables in a game, however, this is one instance where I actually want one of those efficiency nerds to come in and lay it all out for me

What math you want me doing? Which weapons need comparing against which targets?

I do have work soon, but I'm happy to do math when I'm free.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
Because I've fallen head over heels over the damage potential of Assault Intercessors, especially with either White Scars or Blood Angels, I'm leaning towards 1-2 Squads of 5 Heavy Intercessors with Executioner Bolt rifle/Heavy Bolter holding the back line. On average, they seem to do a decent amount of kills versus MEQ and higher toughness targets, though Auto-Bolt Rifle toting Intercessors seem to do more versus Deathguard and Custodes I think? I'd love to see someone else's math on this; bad arms means I can't type for too long.

You can't rely on mathhammer as there are too many variables in a game, however, this is one instance where I actually want one of those efficiency nerds to come in and lay it all out for me

What math you want me doing? Which weapons need comparing against which targets?

I do have work soon, but I'm happy to do math when I'm free.

It would be a bit of an awkward one, but damage output in comparison to point efficiency when compared to normal intercessors... The kicker is, taking into account chapter tactics.... Like the original post says, I think certain loadouts will be very effective for certain chapters, whilst some chapters will just not have a use at all.

Okay. I'm going to check SvT values and nothing else, since the AP, BS, and Damage are all the same. (Range obviously is different, but Intercessors have enough range to not make it a huge deal.)

I will be checking Toughness 4, 5, and 8-9. Against all other values, they wound the same, making Intercessors better per point.

All calculations are as follows, using the Rapid-Fire guns:
Intercessors pay 15 points per hit
Heavy Intercessors pay 21 points per hit

Toughness 4
Intercessors: 30 points per wound
Heavy Intercessors: 31.5 points per wound
95.24% effectiveness

Toughness 5
Intercessors: 45 points per wound
Heavy Intercessors: 42 points per wound
107.14% effectiveness

Toughness 8-9
Intercessors: 90 points per wound
Heavy Intercessors: 63 points per wound
142.86% effectiveness

Overall, the Intercessors are better against small peeps, worse against big peeps, but Heavy Intercessors area also considerably more durable. Assuming you don't need the melee weapon or extra inch of movement, I'd value Heavies better than regular ones.

Note that the RATIOS all stay the same, even if the exact points values do not.

Whoops, beat me to it.

That is also taking into account regular Intercessors being 2/3 the cost basically, correct?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
That is also taking into account regular Intercessors being 2/3 the cost basically, correct?

Yes. Heavy Intercessors at 71.43% effectiveness against Toughness 1-3, 6-7, and 10+.

Against the remaining numbers, they're either just shy or better than Intercessors, per point.

Are we hard confirmed these guys are a Heavy slot? Not troops?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Are we hard confirmed these guys are a Heavy slot? Not troops?

They're troops, again, look at the datasheet posted in an earlier post for you.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Are we hard confirmed these guys are a Heavy slot? Not troops?

Codex is out - they are troops. 5 man with a heavy bolter is 145 points.

 Xenomancers wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Are we hard confirmed these guys are a Heavy slot? Not troops?

Codex is out - they are troops. 5 man with a heavy bolter is 145 points.

150pts. 28 per model, and each heavy bolter is 10pts.

The advantage of the heavy interessors -
Pros
Are better vs t5 (am important toughness value)
Increase durability over min units of intercessors without becoming vulnerable to blast weapons.
Can take a heavy bolter (intercessors can't take heavies.)

Cons
No shoot twice stratagem
worse vs t4
No melee weapons for sargent.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Are we hard confirmed these guys are a Heavy slot? Not troops?

Codex is out - they are troops. 5 man with a heavy bolter is 145 points.

150pts. 28 per model, and each heavy bolter is 10pts.

My bad you right.

They’re 95% effective against T4, while being more durable.

So these are basically Sag Guardians but with SM strats and doctrines.......awesome.

 JNAProductions wrote:
They’re 95% effective against T4, while being more durable.

So really It think they are great.

No shoot twice stratagem though really lowers their effectiveness if you need them to do heavy lifting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So these are basically Sag Guardians but with SM strats and doctrines.......awesome.

No 4++ and no misercordia also no bs 2+.
Both units are good IMO. It will be interesting to see if custodians get any new rules when they get a new codex.

I see them as objective holders that can do their bit with shooting, and not too close to the enemy lines, that only changes if they are white scars and using assault versions of the bolters for me, it also is without the heavy bolter.

Trying to figure out how they fit into a Deathwatch army.

A Fortis Kill Team includes 5 - 10 of them. The would compete against Proteus Kill Teams, the Vets, for a place in a list.

The Vets have a lot of delivery options, including Drop Pods for alpha strikes. Point for point, Frag Cannons / Heavy Bolters are more efficient than Heavy Bolt Rifles at 24", and Drop Pods can disrupt an opponent's charges.

Seems like Heavy Intercessors can do a lot with Executor Bolt Rifles. The 42" range is what's important, they will be shooting every turn with AP-2 D2 weapons.

I can see some synergy there. Drop Pods coming in, Vets shooting everything at close range, HIs marching up the board with long-range guns.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Trying to figure out how they fit into a Deathwatch army.

A Fortis Kill Team includes 5 - 10 of them. The would compete against Proteus Kill Teams, the Vets, for a place in a list.

The Vets have a lot of delivery options, including Drop Pods for alpha strikes. Point for point, Frag Cannons / Heavy Bolters are more efficient than Heavy Bolt Rifles at 24", and Drop Pods can disrupt an opponent's charges.

Seems like Heavy Intercessors can do a lot with Executor Bolt Rifles. The 42" range is what's important, they will be shooting every turn with AP-2 D2 weapons.

I can see some synergy there. Drop Pods coming in, Vets shooting everything at close range, HIs marching up the board with long-range guns.

As a newly minted DW player myself, the Heavies go into Indomitor Kill Teams as the base unit (like normal Intercessors in a Fortis). So far I like taking 5 Heavies with 5 Eradicators and giving their Kill Team the Malleus or Dominator designation.

Audustum wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Trying to figure out how they fit into a Deathwatch army.

A Fortis Kill Team includes 5 - 10 of them. The would compete against Proteus Kill Teams, the Vets, for a place in a list.

The Vets have a lot of delivery options, including Drop Pods for alpha strikes. Point for point, Frag Cannons / Heavy Bolters are more efficient than Heavy Bolt Rifles at 24", and Drop Pods can disrupt an opponent's charges.

Seems like Heavy Intercessors can do a lot with Executor Bolt Rifles. The 42" range is what's important, they will be shooting every turn with AP-2 D2 weapons.

I can see some synergy there. Drop Pods coming in, Vets shooting everything at close range, HIs marching up the board with long-range guns.

As a newly minted DW player myself, the Heavies go into Indomitor Kill Teams as the base unit (like normal Intercessors in a Fortis). So far I like taking 5 Heavies with 5 Eradicators and giving their Kill Team the Malleus or Dominator designation.

Was mistaken about the name, meant to say Indomitor. Hard to get used to the lingo when you can't buy the f'ing models.

The other synergy to look at is with Aggressors. In that Indomitor Kill Team, you can put 5 Heavy Intercessors and 5 Agressors and combat squad them.

That's a lot of firepower. Haven't done any min / maxing, but it sounds like a hard counter to most heavy infantry.

Not to sour the punch, but what is their purpose? They are basically HB Devs with better armor right? If they keep blurring the lines they end up invalidating units.