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Made in gb
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





So I've been thinking about my doughty Imperial Guard army and, like many players, I'm not just content with what I've got, I am eagerly anticipating the 9th edition codex.

I think most Astra Militarum players can agree that with 9th edition there are a lot of units which were fine in 8th but have been at least a little bit crippled by the changes in 9th. Of course there are many factions that don't have a 9th edition codex which can make the same claim, the Astra Militarum are not an exception. What I'd like to focus on in this thread though is: does the Fast Attack section need expanding? When I am looking at tweaking or expanding my Imperial Guard army I feel like I'm spoilt for choice in Elites and Heavy Support, though not in Fast Attack.

Some ideas of mine to expand the Fast Attack choices for Astra Militarum:

The obvious choice would seem to be to bring Rough Riders back. They fill a role in an Imperial Guard army, they're super thematic and they only recently got deleted (i.e. moved to Legends). I don't think they will make a comeback though, why would GW remove them from the codex only to bring them back an edition later?

Another choice would be some other kind of mounted unit. Bikes would arguably fit the army better than Rough Riders, though there are other armies that do them too, so having them won't really add much diversity to the game when Genestealer Cults and Space Marines are taking them too.

A fast vehicle (which isn't a variant on the Chimera chassis) could be cool. I'm not that keen on the idea myself as I'm not a big fan of tanks. Could be a popular choice though. Something like the buggy the Elysians had would be pretty cool.

Move existing units to Fast Attack. I'm not sure what would fit here. Ratlings perhaps? They would still need a points reduction to make them worth taking though.

My final idea, which is my favourite one, is some kind of scout unit, that can deploy anywhere on the battlefield, at least 9 inches away from the enemy deployment zone. It wouldn't have to be anything fancy, basically a Veterans unit with special deployment rules. Maybe give them camo cloaks to make them harder to shoot at, or some other snazzy kind of wargear to differentiate them from Infantry Squads and Veteran Squads. The reason I like this idea so much is that currently if I want to take a Brigade I can't make a pure infantry Guard army, I have to take Hellhounds and / or Sentinels in my army.



Over to you: What would you like to see in the Astra Militarum Fast Attack slot?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/06 19:11:00


 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant




San Jose, CA

I'd rather they just remake rough riders in plastic and give them to everyone.

That or add in some Elysian buggies or motorcycles. But preferably all of the above.
   
Made in de
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






I'll second that. I would really like a "small vehicle". The Taurox, Hellhound and Salamander (also Legend) are still really big, basically everything we have exept the sentinel is at least chimera sized. I would like something smaller, be it the return of the Tauros (the Elisian buggy), or something new like a tankette similar to the modern german wiesel. But that is my personal preference.

But first and foremost: Rough Riders. Horses for everyone!

~5600 build and painted 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Said it before, saying it again:
If they bring Rough Riders back? Do them up as an auxilia unit.

Also said before, saying again:
"Outriders" as a FA choice. Bikers with a 'deployable' sensor post that bolsters vox-equipped and vehicle unit shooting.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Racerguy180 wrote:
I'd rather they just remake rough riders in plastic and give them to everyone.

That or add in some Elysian buggies or motorcycles. But preferably all of the above.


I like this idea for multiple reasons.

For one, the Rough Riders had no real reason to be removed other than old models. They filled a certain niche and fit in with the interwar period (1918-1939) style that the IG have.

Bikes and buggies are also in existence with other Imperium related factions and fit the WW2 part of the IGs theme. (I am including GSC stuff because they are technically all vehicles produced by the Imperium before being modified by the GSC)

In addition, IG bikers are something that existed way back in the original RT days. Look for RT IG Medic on Bike if you don't believe me.

However, in addition to all that, I think it would be really cool to see a light tank entry in the IG Fast Attack. I'm talking an equivalent to the Renault FT or armored cars from WW1, not some Chimera chassis variant. A small, two or three man vehicle with light anti-armor and anti-infantry options on a full rotation turret.

Rough Riders and Bikers could fill the role for Infantry focused IG armies, while buggies and a light tank would fill out the Fast Attack options for those who want smaller vehicles in scout/close support roles. I like Sentinels, but sometimes I look at the IG line want a fast scout unit that isn't futuristic chicken legs from Star Wars. Something more in line with the IG WW1-WW2 theme.

Another option for Fast Attack could be light Helicopters with similar armament options to Sentinels. The Germans did experiment with helicopter designs in WW2, even producing the reconnaissance and spotting helicopter Fl 282 Kolibri, used until the end of the war.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Nope.

IG are a sledgehammer. Rough Riders? Yes, because they’re ace. But no buggies or bikes.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





 SergentSilver wrote:
In addition, IG bikers are something that existed way back in the original RT days. Look for RT IG Medic on Bike if you don't believe me.


I actually had a squad of these back in the day. I'm not sure why I bought them, I actually started collecting Guard after the original Catachans were released in 2nd edition. Still, I sold all my Rogue Trader era Imperial Guard models many years ago. I can't remember how much I got for them, but probably a lot less than what they're worth today.



Good to see that I'm not the only one who thinks Rough Riders should never have been got rid of. One problem I see with bringing them back (or bringing in open topped buggies or bikers for that matter) is that GW will probably need to make them suitable for both Cadian and Catachan armies. Should be doable without making two separate kits though (like the current Scout Sentinel). Making Rough Rider auxilias with a different look could work, though I'm not a big fan of that option.


It seems my idea of an infiltrating unit isn't popular. I admit, it is a bit of a boring option. Personally I think something like it could be covered by Veterans, as long as GW release a kit with lots of options and rules to go with it. That's probably a topic for another thread though.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope.

IG are a sledgehammer. Rough Riders? Yes, because they’re ace. But no buggies or bikes.

Then no Rough Riders either. Fast Attack should be nothing but Chimera hulls and Sentinels.
   
Made in us
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The Great State of Texas

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Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

El Torro wrote:

Good to see that I'm not the only one who thinks Rough Riders should never have been got rid of.

Oh no, for sure they should have been rid of. The second they started being a "Regimental asset" in the lore, someone should have realized how bad of a concept it was.
One problem I see with bringing them back (or bringing in open topped buggies or bikers for that matter) is that GW will probably need to make them suitable for both Cadian and Catachan armies. Should be doable without making two separate kits though (like the current Scout Sentinel). Making Rough Rider auxilias with a different look could work, though I'm not a big fan of that option.

Tough, because they were described as such for quite some time.

Making them "suitable for both Cadian and Catachan armies" completely misses the elements of what makes the Guard interesting. Cadians and Catachans aren't from "cavalry cultures" or anything like that.
Cadians had bikers in the lore, but they weren't driving around shooting things from the bikes while shouting. They were scouts for the armored/artillery regiments, carrying radios and spotting gear. They had lasguns but literally just so they could defend themselves while dismounted.

On the flipside, Tallarn? They had a Rough Rider contingent that used desert dwelling beasts.
Atilla? They were a purely horse culture from a feral world.
Death Korps? They have Mechanicus augmented steeds that are literally bred for the hellscapes that Krieg make in the course of their wars of attrition.


It seems my idea of an infiltrating unit isn't popular. I admit, it is a bit of a boring option. Personally I think something like it could be covered by Veterans, as long as GW release a kit with lots of options and rules to go with it. That's probably a topic for another thread though.

Bluntly, I'm going to repeat a refrain I've said over and over and over again:
Guard will not function as an army or be a viable concept for a refresh until the book and lore are torn down.

Infiltrators, in general, do not function that great in tabletop games either.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Bring Rough Riders back!

Bikers like the GSC units would be cool to see as well.

Also bring back beastmen . Not as FA, just as auxilla or whatever.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope.

IG are a sledgehammer. Rough Riders? Yes, because they’re ace. But no buggies or bikes.


Light infantry and reconnaissance have always been part of the IG. Shoving Astra Militarum further into the bland pigeonhole of meatshield infantry and tanks would not be an improvement.

If anything, buggies like the Tauros are more fitting with the modern style of the Guard than Rough Riders are.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/06 21:27:56


 
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

FAV (Fast Attack Vehicle, or something akin to the Halo Warthog) would be fun, as would bikes.

I’m also a fan of things like the M-8 Greyhound, Puma and the like - a pursuit/scout car with an auto cannon.

I’d like to see the return of Rough Riders, but with this being a SF setting, I’d like to see more monstrous mounts - I mean, they gave Admech cavalry that wasn’t simple horses...

Maybe some more variants on Sentinels as well.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

In a word, to answer the thread title? Yes.

As do a lot of other factions, and a lot of other slots. But alas, Marines Marines Marines.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I don't know why they never did new Rough Riders.
GW have made tonnes of cavalry models but not them for some reason.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





That six wheeled tauros and the valkyrie skytalon that carried it were some of my favourite fw models ever. Without the tauros, the skytalon doesn't make much sense.

Pulling more flyers (by which I mean aircraft, not jump troops or deepstrikers) into plastic GW guard would be cool too.

Said it before: if you release the Avenger for guard, you could build a Sisters upgrade sprue like Ravenwing sprue for the Nephilim jet fighter and release it for the sisters as well.

That's a license to print money right there.
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!






In short, yes.

I would like to see Rough Riders return, though I'll admit I always preferred the image of them as dragoons, scouts, or mobile firebases than dudes with lances doing a cavalry charge. Still considering the way GW does multikits now it seems like an easy method of making both work.

Other options could be bikers to fill a similar niche for a more high tech version of the concept.

Light scouting vehicles could be an option too, though I'm unsure how exactly to implement them - just a cheap low toughness vehicle with a heavy bolter seems like it would simply be a sentinel but with wheels/tracks. Maybe it could be a trail blazer type unit that has the Scout Sentinel's rule but may also confer it to a single [Infantry] unit? Or alternatively it could fill the role of a spotter for other units, maybe either voxing in or through tracer fire conferring a small bonus against a specific target (without stepping on the toes of markerlights).

Possibly a dedicated light infantry unit? Stealing from the old dex, a unit that can infiltrate/gets a scout move and gets extra movement when it advances. Maybe give its lasguns Assault 2 so they can rush an objective and attempt to contest it / hold a unit down while the rest of the army advances at a more cautious rate.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

There is zero room for Rough Riders and Bikers to coexist if you're just giving them the same role.

Rough Riders should be emblematic of the "feral worlders". Give them options for the spears people constantly want and also options for just being pistols and melee weapons for the lulz.

On the opposite end of things, make the bikers into effectively a squad of the GSC biker HQ with slightly worse stats that can be multiples bought as one unit.

The 'light scouting vehicle' niche of the Sentinel and Salamanders are already filled. Job's done.
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Why not something like a 1 man ultra light or helicopter? I mean, the Orks have a helicopter why not IG?
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

Need? No. There are plenty of options in the codex.

Want? Yes, please. More options are welcome. The codex could really use a Fast Attack Infantry unit to allow for a pure Infantry Brigade.
   
Made in de
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






I have to admit my personal main reason for wanting a smaller vehicle beside sentinels is modelling/collecting. The Chimera family, Leman Russ family and Carnodon are almost the same size and I would prefer some more variation.

Some thoughts on what I could see as roles being filled by such a possible small tank/buggy/tankette:

1. A smaller vehicle like a Jeep with open topped and a 5-6 transport capacity. Perfectly suited to drive around scion squads/Command Squads +Commander/ special weapons squads with the added role of keeping those firing. To balance it out squishier than its weight in Chimeras with no weapons (or only a stubber) on its own

2. A Scout/spotter with a functioning spotting mechanic. Completely shot from the hip: if the scout cars has line of sight, other units can fire as if they had too (makes more sense for projectile weapons than for lasweapons of course). Could also eben reflected by giving orders to Artillery

3. Something like the M50 Ontos: small, squishy, with 6 one use missiles and a strat to fire all at once. The risky lascannon tank killer

4. Some unarmed vehicle with an utitility function. Think of a small mobile void shield generator that can provides an inv for a nearby tank or infantry unit. Or a voxrelais increasing voxrange to 36" and "translating" so that Tempestor primes can order Cadian
Alternativly a "Commander" ordering Sentinels, Hellhounds and the like

Edit: 5. An AA spotter looking in on a Flyer and giving the army +1 to hit that target

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/07 10:02:59


~5600 build and painted 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



London

I would like the return of rough riders for an infantry FA choice.

Otherwise in my dreams the Chimera gets an updated kit that allows the construction in addition to its current options to a; Salamander(s), Trojan, griffon, a 'heavy' tank and a light tank (I call mine the spectre, details below in the spoiler. They are currently scratch built by moving the turret back).

Spoiler:
Fast Attack
Armageddon pattern Spectre (authorised Chimera Variant 2197.14C)
The Spectre is made with small variations on many major Chimera producing worlds, but the lack of a commonly agreed complete STC has prevented it from achieving wider manufacture or the honour of construction at a sanctified Forge World. The defining characteristic is the move of the turret back towards the centre of gravity of the vehicle, with a turret ring and basket at same level of sophistication as a Leman Russ tank. The resultant increase in accuracy is paid for by the reduction in size of the troop hold. The type remains a popular scout or cavalry tank option for mechanised formations, able to outpace the more lumbering Guard tanks and keep up with the troop transports.
Stats as per Chimera bar the transport capacity being reduced to 6.
Turreted weapon may fire on the move without a -1 to hit.
Turret weapons include Hve Flamer, Multilaser, Hve Bolter, Twin Hvy Bolter, Autocannon, Lascannon and quad heavy stubber.

Heavy Support
Armageddon pattern Spectre, Chimedon/Chimerax/Chimerro variant
More extreme variants of the Spectre. The crew is concerned almost entirely with the complex weapon system housed in an enlarged turret. The Chimedon carries a conqueror cannon, the Chimerax quad autocannon and the Chimerro a standard multilaser paired with an autoloading Hunter Killer missile system. Most patterns entirely forgo the transport capability in favour of increased ammunition, however familiarity of building the chimera has meant the Armageddon pattern retains a small, cramped, transport space with only slight impacts on ammunition levels.
The Chimedon grew out of an STC fragment that seemingly showed a battlecannon fitted to a Chimera. Despite efforts on numerous forgeworlds this has never been successfully replicated. Some regard it as a hoax or elaborate heresy. Others point out the successful mating of a conqueror cannon to a Spectre variant as evidence that the fragment was wrongly interpreted.
The Chimerax is a relatively rare variant of a Hydra that has grown out of production factories where the technology to replicate the complex targeting systems has been lost. The fact the vehicle still operates without this is seen as divine blessing by many enginseers, if not tech priests. On Armageddon damaged factories abound that can no longer produce Hydra, but Chimerax can act as stand in against primitive Ork aircraft and is indeed better against the typical light vehicles that bedevil steel legion columns.
The Chimerro simply takes the practice of carrying Hunter Killer missiles to its logical extreme, and mounts lots. Some versions use rack after rack of missiles waiting to be fired, though these are at risk of damage from stray rounds. More sophisticated vehicles mount the reloading systems typical found in rearming depots to replace missiles almost as soon as they are fired. In practice firepower is limited to the speed crews can find, mark and engage targets that are worthy of their sanctified missiles.
Stats as per Chimera bar the transport capacity being reduced to 4.
Turreted weapon may fire on the move without a -1 to hit.
Base cost XX points, then add points depending on hull weapon and turret weapons
Chimedon Conqueror cannon – XX points
Chimerax Quad Autocannon – XX points
Chimerro Multilaser and D3 hunter killer missiles each time it fires - XX points

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/07 12:14:12


 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





Squat auxilia with bikes (dakka), buggies (AT) and jump packs (hvy assault infantry).
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



London

 bullyboy wrote:
Squat auxilia with bikes (dakka), buggies (AT) and jump packs (hvy assault infantry).


And beastmen with gliders fired out of cannon or dropped from aircraft.

Of course pigs might fly.
   
Made in us
Noble Knight of the Realm






Short answer yes, longer answer is also yes.

"Don't Feed the Troll" 
   
Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation




 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope.

IG are a sledgehammer. Rough Riders? Yes, because they’re ace. But no buggies or bikes.


This. All factions having all options is boring. Rough Riders will probably be remade or reimagined at some point due to nostalgia cash I'd have thought.
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





Nah. Sentinels and Hellhound variants are enough IMO. There's no point in adding more things to an army nobody will use.
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Hanford, CA, AKA The Eye of Terror

We could always get the Salamander Scout vehicle! It could pull double duty and have a Fast Attack and HQ version as well. It would have to be either horrifically cheap (like 10 points more than a sentinel), ridiculously fast, or have some sort of special ability, like "spotters: reroll ones to hit against a single designated enemy unit within 18" by friendly units with VEHICLE or VOX keywords" the HQ version would be able to give orders at an expanded range.

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"Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"

-Imperial Guard Uplifting Primer 
   
Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





I do want to see rough riders, perhaps a dune buggy type of vehicle, motorcycles ala genestealer cult.

But, I would also like them to improve our existing choices. Sentinels are iconic and could be more useful. Hellhounds likewise need a bit of love. Giving some attention to our existing choices could go a long way in improving an army that is struggling right now.

Active armies, still collecting and painting First and greatest love - Orks, Orks, and more Orks largest pile of shame, so many tanks unassembled most complete and painted beautiful models, couldn't resist the swarm will consume all
Armies in disrepair: nothing new since 5th edition oh how I want to revive, but mostly old fantasy demons and some glorious Soul Grinders in need of love 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I wouldnt mind seeing a chimera chasis built with a rockgrinder type on its front-end, like the gene-stealer cult thing. Could still carry troops, or have some sort of hellhound turret. Currently only the guard super-heavies have some sort of "Run them over" type mechanic and that would be a fun thing to have on a main-line battle-vehicle
   
 
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