Switch Theme:

Are burna-bommers allowed to throw both of its bombs, turn 1?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

hey guys.
Burna-bommers have 2 burna bombs.

Burna Bombs: Up to twice per battle, this model can drop a burna bomb as it flies over enemy units in its Movement phase. After the model has moved, select an enemy unit that it moved over and roll a D6 for each model in that unit, up to a maximum of 10 dice. Add 1 to the roll for a model if it is INFANTRY . For each roll of 5+ the enemy unit suffers 1 mortal wound.

The way i read this, theres no indication that i shouldnt be able to throw both bombs in the same round. Like, it wouldnt be difficult to write that you can only drop one bomb per turn, like the Kustom Stompas Kustom supa rokkits (who also have several rokkits) which states: Only one supa-rokkit can be fired by the bearer per turn, and each can only be fired once per battle..


But im still uncertain and i want to be sure. What do you guys think? Is there an FAQ that states somewhere bombs can only be dropped one turn at a time?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/11 09:06:36


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

So, you dont see "can drop a burna bomb" as singular ? I dont see it saying "can drop burna bombs", which would allow to drop more than one.
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

 p5freak wrote:
So, you dont see "can drop a burna bomb" as singular ? I dont see it saying "can drop burna bombs", which would allow to drop more than one.


no i dont because abilities are written as you use one weapon at a time. the text afterwards explain what happens when you drop one bomb, it doesnt explain what happens if you drop both bombs as that would be confusing writing as that would make people question whether or not you had to drop both at the same time.

One burna bomb cant hit two units, so the rules are written as you only drop one at a time when it explains how you can only hit one unit. also, i dont see how "Can drop a burna bomb" excludes that i couldnt drop two. i CAN see what you mean, and you are probably right but i also see how it could be understood that you can drop both.

I feel like that It "can" drop a burna bomb as it flies over enemy units" is a weak word to try and exclude that it cant use two bombs.
Depending on how you put the pressure on the word, "can" doesnt have to exclude. like, you "can" get a piece of paper, but you could also get two pieces of paper.
Im just confused as they already have a text for the stompa "Only one supa-rokkit can be fired by the bearer per turn, and each can only be fired once per battle.". In no way can you be confused about whether this can be done once or twice.
I mean change that to: "Only one bomb can be dropped by the bearer per turn, and each can only be dropped once per battle" when the burna bommer has 2 bombs. that would clear all confusion.

But hey im fine with being wrong i just wanna know what the correct answer is.

This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2021/04/11 10:08:30


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






London

I can't see anything that would stop you from doing so:

Burna Bombs: Up to twice per battle No issue there, doesn't say once per turn, this model can drop a burna bomb as it flies over enemy units in its Movement phase. After the model has moved, select an enemy unit If it had said one enemy unit then I'd disagree but again, no restrictions that it moved over and roll a D6 for each model in that unit, up to a maximum of 10 dice. Add 1 to the roll for a model if it is INFANTRY . For each roll of 5+ the enemy unit suffers 1 mortal wound.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/11 11:05:25


   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




You can drop A bomb (singular) on AN enemy unit (only one of them) each time you move over units in your movement phase. Unless you are able to move twice in your movement phase, you can you only drop one bomb per turn.
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

But "can" is a weak word to exclude that i can drop two bombs.

If it said you can only drop a single bomb" it would be clear as day. By writing "Single" you put an emphasis on the fact that only ONE bomb was ever meant to be dropped.

I could also say: You can take a piece of paper" but that doesnt technically exclude that you "can also take two pieces of paper". You "can" take one, doesnt mean you "cant" take two. im not putting any emphasis on the fact that you are not allowed to take more than one, im just stating, you can take a piece of paper. In the same way that the burna bommer ability states, you can drop a burna bomb. It doesnt even state ONE burna bomb or a single burna bomb. that would put an emphasis on the fact, only a single bomb could be dropped.
Thats why im making the thread to be sure, because "can" and "a" are terrible words that can be read either way depending on how you put pressure on the word. If they wanted to be sure i only dropped 1 bomb, they could have written it in a thousand different ways to make it clearer. Like the Supa Rokkits from a stompa, or simply write "you can only drop a single bomb". That excludes multiple bombs.


I can buy an ice cream, but i could also buy two ice creams. I can drive a car, but i can also drive two cars.

This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2021/04/11 11:45:41


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Warhammer is a permissive ruleset. Unless the rules specify that you can do something, you can't. The possibility of dropping two bombs is excluded by the fact that it's not explicitly included.
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

Seizeman wrote:
Warhammer is a permissive ruleset. Unless the rules specify that you can do something, you can't. The possibility of dropping two bombs is excluded by the fact that it's not explicitly included.


yet the stompas rokkits states: Only one supa-rokkit can be fired by the bearer per turn, and each can only be fired once per battle." which is very much explicitly stating that you cant fire more than one rokkit per round.
By this sentence id say they explicitly state what must and must not happen, id say that they dont explicitly state that burna bommers can only drop ONE bomb, so nothing stops me from dropping two.

Why make one rule that explicitly states what can and cannot happen, and then for the same race, another unit where they DONT explicitly state what can and cannot happen?

The only reason the burna bombs are written this way, as i see it, is that the rule is written this way because its not a normal attack, there are factors that needs to be checked before you can do this, such as you have to fly over an enemy model, only one bomb can hit one unit, and up to 10 dies for 1 unit if it has 10 models. If they had to write "burna bombs" that means the entire text would have to be written in a very dubious way that would be difficult to interpret, as they could easily fail and make it understood that you can have a total of 20 die rolls, that could be split over everything you flew over, not just 2 units. So by stating "you can drop a bomb" they make the rule with one bomb thrown at a time in mind. That way the rule becomes easier to read. The supa rokkit dont have to account for this because its a normal base line weapon, it didnt even need to be so explicit in its statement, yet it is very explicit in stating, only one rokkit can be fired per turn. But this text, if it werent meant to drop several bombs, SHOULD be explicit in its explanation, which it is not.

I see it as they wrote this description with the: This happens if you drop a bomb". but still dont exclude that i could throw both bombs, just that this happens, when a bomb is thrown.


This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2021/04/11 12:11:23


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Crescent City Fl..

If I read your arguments enough I can almost find myself in agreement however, I believe your wrong about this.
The language is most singular. Up to twice per battle. Allowing for two bomb drops for the game.
This model can drop A Burna Bomb as it flies, ect. A - is singular.
Yadda yadda yadda pick an enemy unit it moved over. An enemy unit - singular.

Leaning into the express instructions of the super rokkit seems flawed, these rules are effectively the same, once per turn and a set number per game.

As much as I wish a Burna Bomber could drop both bombs before being destroyed the next turn, such is my luck, they can't.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/11 14:34:33


"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror."
My blog http://warhead01.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-art-of-ork.html 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

You can use one per turn, up to twice per battle. Citation: the plain English of the rule. It’s not possible to interpret as allowing both in one turn.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

Well. ive had like 85% people tell me i cant (ive asked other places too) and the last 15% tell me I can.

So i will play it as i cannot, throw two bombs in one go. Id rather be safe than sorry. Although had i been at a tournement i would ask the referee.

thanks guys

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Beardedragon wrote:
Well. ive had like 85% people tell me i cant (ive asked other places too) and the last 15% tell me I can.

So i will play it as i cannot, throw two bombs in one go. Id rather be safe than sorry. Although had i been at a tournement i would ask the referee.

thanks guys


I think that's the safe bet. Especially since it says "After the model has moved, select an enemy unit that it moved over..." Specifically singular use of "an" there.

However, while I am inclined to believe it was meant to work the same way any other single use weapon does with only one use available per turn, it is of note that it is the only one I can find that does not specifically state this limitation even if it seems to imply it. That and Orks are just the right kind of norm breaking jank army to ignore the usual limitations.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/11 15:09:55


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

I agree with most here. With the rule as unspecific as it is, I would err on you not being able to drop both bombs on one turn.

As for the Supa-Rokkit, that is bad example to lean on. The Stompa is armed with 3 Supa-rokkits weapons and therefore requires a rule explicitly preventing you from firing them all a once. Burna Bombs are a wargear item who's rules are explained in the Abilities section of the datasheet.
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

I figured it was a decent argument.

I mean you have 3 rokkits you can only fire once per turn.

Burna bommers have 2 bombs, you can only drop one per turn.

It seemed pretty much like the same case.

Also they removed the generic rule from earlier editions that meant that bombers couldnt in general, drop more than 1 bomb at a time. And since that was removed for 9th i figured hey, maybe burna bommers can drop several

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

Beardedragon wrote:
I figured it was a decent argument.

I mean you have 3 rokkits you can only fire once per turn.

Burna bommers have 2 bombs, you can only drop one per turn.

It seemed pretty much like the same case.

Also they removed the generic rule from earlier editions that meant that bombers couldnt in general, drop more than 1 bomb at a time. And since that was removed for 9th i figured hey, maybe burna bommers can drop several
The Burna-Bommer is not equipped with 2 bombs. It is only equipped with a twin big shoota and two supa-shootas.

However It does have the "Burna Bombs" rule that lets you drop a bomb "Up to twice per battle"

Slight, but important difference.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

 DeathReaper wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
I figured it was a decent argument.

I mean you have 3 rokkits you can only fire once per turn.

Burna bommers have 2 bombs, you can only drop one per turn.

It seemed pretty much like the same case.

Also they removed the generic rule from earlier editions that meant that bombers couldnt in general, drop more than 1 bomb at a time. And since that was removed for 9th i figured hey, maybe burna bommers can drop several
The Burna-Bommer is not equipped with 2 bombs. It is only equipped with a twin big shoota and two supa-shootas.

However It does have the "Burna Bombs" rule that lets you drop a bomb "Up to twice per battle"

Slight, but important difference.


I believe that is incorrect.

The loadout of the unit states: A Burna-bommer is a single model equipped with a twin big shoota, two supa shootas and two burna bombs.

So they are not just abilities, they are part of the loadout even if they dont have a weapons profile on their own.


As i understand it that is.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/04/11 16:48:12


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

From the Burna-Bommer datasheet on page 114 of Codex Orks:

A Burna-bommer is a single model equipped with a twin big shoota and two supa-shootas.

The datasheet has a rule called 'Burna Bombs' in the 'Abilities' section.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Even at its most liberal parsing, at best, you would be able to drop one bomb on 2 different units.


So, possibly, if your opponent allowed you would be able to pass over 2 distinct units and drop bombs on them both in a single turn, but you almost assuredly cannot drop both bombs on a single unit.

JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: