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Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut





So basically modern Earth is conquered by IoM and due to our genetic purity we become a Space Marine chapter homeworld. A Chapter is founded on Earth and our tithe is to produce and maintain a SM Chapter and its support. In return we will be uplifted to IoM tech levels.

How will this go?

And does it affect us which legion's gene-seed is used?
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






It definitely matters on which chapter is chosen to found us because depending on their ties to their founding legion it could help determine how hands-off they are in running our planet.

Also, you kind of have to expand a bit further on what you mean by "conquered". Has one of the main world powers brokered a deal with the IoM to basically act as their vassals? I can't see China or the US being that quick to submit to an alien power, so it really depends on how they approach our planet. If they go for all out war against us, its very dependent on how thorough their job is against us, because they would very likely deal with guerilla tactics from a lot of modern day humanity that reject the IoM's worship of the Emperor and human supremacist ideals.
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut





 Grimskul wrote:

Also, you kind of have to expand a bit further on what you mean by "conquered".

Basically a couple of Astartes chapters destroyed critical military assets all around the world powers within a couple of weeks before the Imperial Guard rolled a regiment after a regiment occupying all countries making the entire planet surrender. The total casualties were a 100 million.
   
Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





For a planet with a population in the billions, the tithe for one space marine chapter would be insignificant. Even if we had to provide ten thousand aspirants every year (probably way more than is actually needed), it'd be a drop in the ocean.

The hard part would be to get a majority of people to accept worship of the Emperor. Also, our scientific community as it is could never work with the Adeptus Mechanicus: our scientists would want to experiment and understand what's behind all the rites and superstition. The techpriests would call that tech heresy and possibly purge a lot of people...
I suppose if our world was forced to fit in the Imperium, it would be beaten into submission until it was no longer the world we know and more like a generic Imperial colony.
   
Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






Where do you think they would most likely take aspiring recruits from mostly?

Australia is a given as it is basically it's own mini death world, Iceland maybe as well as they do seem to be of a prime genetic stock with a strong stoic mentality. What other nations/nationalities do you think would be most likely rich with candidates, every country would have some, but some countries will produce more due to their nature/culture/environment...

Oh, the Scottish, of course as well.


My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
Blog 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Tiennos wrote:
For a planet with a population in the billions, the tithe for one space marine chapter would be insignificant. Even if we had to provide ten thousand aspirants every year (probably way more than is actually needed), it'd be a drop in the ocean.

The hard part would be to get a majority of people to accept worship of the Emperor. Also, our scientific community as it is could never work with the Adeptus Mechanicus: our scientists would want to experiment and understand what's behind all the rites and superstition. The techpriests would call that tech heresy and possibly purge a lot of people...
I suppose if our world was forced to fit in the Imperium, it would be beaten into submission until it was no longer the world we know and more like a generic Imperial colony.


The topics come up a few times before here.

All of the science bit is irrelevant. And worship. And everything else really.
That’s exactly how all the worlds are “reunited” with the Imperium. They’re all in different stages of advancement.
The Imperiums way is forced on the world and it all changes.

Assuming they come, and the population sees they are man and not alien. Much of the world would be convinced, forced or whatnot, into siding.

A small show of power would convince the rest.
Bear in mind their tanks are made from stuff our worlds weaponry couldn’t touch.
Even Flak armour would probably stop all our rounds (it’s not the same as our present day Flak for instance).
We would be quickly overpowered.

But they often come to a world with loving arms, they “gift us” lots of advanced technology and tell us we are one of them, the world powers would quickly fall in line.
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

They'd probably end up recruiting through a reality TV show. Eventually a scandal would erupt and the Chapter leadership would be hounded off-world by the papparzzi. They never stood a chance.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




Vancouver, BC

We'd break their faith by showing them our 40k rules books and miniatures. Could they handle being seen as just fiction, just a game played for a laugh?
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






 Canadian 5th wrote:
We'd break their faith by showing them our 40k rules books and miniatures. Could they handle being seen as just fiction, just a game played for a laugh?


I feel if anything that it would be similar to one of the world's that the Word Bearers GC forces came across that turned out to be worshipping the Emperor. They would see our tabletop franchise as reflection of the Emperor's divine influence on mankind's psyche and probably censor the stuff regarding chaos/xenos, but otherwise I think they wouldn't care much given that most of the Imperium's history is ridden with myths and falsehoods to the common populace, with only select individuals privy to majority of the Imperium's founding.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Iceland maybe as well as they do seem to be of a prime genetic stock with a strong stoic mentality.



Can we not for five fething seconds, internet?

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune





Northumberland

 the_scotsman wrote:
 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Iceland maybe as well as they do seem to be of a prime genetic stock with a strong stoic mentality.



Can we not for five fething seconds, internet?


Good to see stuff like this is alive and well eh?

A country famous for having an app so they don't accidentally feth their cousins. Prime genetic stock indeed.

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






One of the tallest, strongest and healthiest nations on the planet. The men would make great marine aspirants.

My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
Blog 
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





More people live in Edinburgh than in Iceland, it's a tiny island that is 90% volcano and the rest is hills/mountains and there aren't any global fast food outlets as far as I can tell. If your entire life is basically spent hill walking and mountaineering with no McDonald's at the end then being healthy and strong is kind of a given.
Anyway doesn't matter the governments of Earth would be annihilated and the population at the very least decimated and then enslaved. Modern-day humanity is too individual and "free" as it was, to serve the Imperium willingly barring a few crazies. The Imperium only took planets peacefully because they'd been caught in the Old Night and suffered at the hands of Xenos/demons/psykers/mutants/other humans. Most of the stable planets are either military dictatorships or those run by the Primarchs, which tend to be military dictatorships anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/18 10:47:20


 
   
Made in gr
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





 Gert wrote:
More people live in Edinburgh than in Iceland, it's a tiny island that is 90% volcano and the rest is hills/mountains and there aren't any global fast food outlets as far as I can tell. If your entire life is basically spent hill walking and mountaineering with no McDonald's at the end then being healthy and strong is kind of a given.
Anyway doesn't matter the governments of Earth would be annihilated and the population at the very least decimated and then enslaved. Modern-day humanity is too individual and "free" as it was, to serve the Imperium willingly barring a few crazies. The Imperium only took planets peacefully because they'd been caught in the Old Night and suffered at the hands of Xenos/demons/psykers/mutants/other humans. Most of the stable planets are either military dictatorships or those run by the Primarchs, which tend to be military dictatorships anyway.


The experience of the 20th Century has shown that even in a parliamentary democracy, the majority of the population will passively go along once the totalitarian dictatorship, be it domestic or a foreign invader, sets up shop.
The Imperium would doubtless install a strict re-education and surveillance regime during the transition period, but I don't see them enslaving Earth's population en masse; rather, they would prioritize re-organizing and integrating our industrial and economic infrastructure into the Administratum.
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





Re-education sounds like slavery but long and surveillance state is again slavery but big. If you're putting millions into camps/ghettos/schools to teach them to love their new overlords or die, that's very much slavery. If your every move is watched at all times then that too is a form of slavery.

Also, I think you're over-generalising with the whole "people were passive with dictators". People in the USSR were at constant risk of getting NKVD'd, the Gestapo and SS were very much not happy beat cops stopping purse-snatchers. When Germany invaded most of Europe people didn't fight back because they were passive but because they were afraid for their friends, families, and themselves. If you have battalions of soldiers marching up and down your streets as well as collaborators willing to rat you out to curry favour, you're never safe. Now change that to colossal armoured super-soldiers impervious to modern-day weaponry who will absolutely massacre anyone who stands against them with no moral quandary.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/18 19:54:15


 
   
Made in gr
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





 Gert wrote:
Re-education sounds like slavery but long and surveillance state is again slavery but big. If you're putting millions into camps/ghettos/schools to teach them to love their new overlords or die, that's very much slavery. If your every move is watched at all times then that too is a form of slavery.


That's a very broad definition of slavery. Do you consider all citizens of the former Eastern Bloc, the modern PRC, North Korea and other such countries to be/have been slaves?

Also, I think you're over-generalising with the whole "people were passive with dictators". People in the USSR were at constant risk of getting NKVD'd, the Gestapo and SS were very much not happy beat cops stopping purse-snatchers. When Germany invaded most of Europe people didn't fight back because they were passive but because they were afraid for their friends, families, and themselves. If you have battalions of soldiers marching up and down your streets as well as collaborators willing to rat you out to curry favour, you're never safe. Now change that to colossal armoured super-soldiers impervious to modern-day weaponry who will absolutely massacre anyone who stands against them with no moral quandary.


None of the above is invalidating my comment about them being passive though? Passiveness does not require willingness.
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





I'm not getting into a discussion about real-world politics in the 40k background forum. All I'm going to say is if you are forced into supporting one form of governance with the only other choices being rebellion and death, then are you really free? (Just so it's 100000% clear I am not saying the PRC or DPRK are like the Imperium)

If you're going by the dictionary definition then sure these people would have been "passive". But technical definitions don't always apply to the real world and poorly represent the factors surrounding real-world events. If you went around France saying that the French were passive in WW2 you'd be knocked out and thrown in the Seine.
   
Made in gr
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





 Gert wrote:
I'm not getting into a discussion about real-world politics in the 40k background forum. All I'm going to say is if you are forced into supporting one form of governance with the only other choices being rebellion and death, then are you really free? (Just so it's 100000% clear I am not saying the PRC or DPRK are like the Imperium)


Once more I have to question your definition. There are considerably more degrees of autonomy (or lack thereof) than "freedom" or "slavery". A dictatorship's citizen is less free then a democracy's citizen (who isn't completely free) either but he is considerably more free than a slave, aka a person that has been reduced to literal property.

While the Imperium does in fact have press-ganged slave populations beyond counting, the vast majority of the Imperium's citizens aren't slaves.

If you're going by the dictionary definition then sure these people would have been "passive". But technical definitions don't always apply to the real world and poorly represent the factors surrounding real-world events. If you went around France saying that the French were passive in WW2 you'd be knocked out and thrown in the Seine.


I am going to take your advise and not comment on real-life politics about that last part.
Nonetheless, "passive" is simply the antonym of "active". If somebody doesn't take action about something, either becaue he agrees with it, is indifferent about it, or is too frightened/skeptic/coerced by another party, he is by definition passive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/18 21:26:33


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






The areas that are the most accustomed to individual liberties, whose populations survived mutation-causing evolutionary pinches in the past, and who currently enjoy the highest standard of living would be the most likely to be purged.

Populations that have already in the past had to capitulate to an invading force's cultural, religious and governmental doctrines would be the most likely to be kept alive.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

I'm not convinced that the 1970s adolescent fantasy-vision of warfare that is 40K would really standup to the reality of war on earth. Sure, they could space-magic the planet into oblivion, but to actually occupy? A Space Marine chapter wouldn't stand a chance against a real-world insurgency. Real people are really resilient, really defiant and imaginatively destructive.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






"Incredible. Repeat augur diagnostic." Chapter master Kuarakh's voice cut across the stunned silence of the serfs managing the Bridge. The monotone of a servitor replied.

"Temporal anomalies reported by magos Vekna reveal a human-populated world. Population seven point five nine billion. Xenos activity nil. Psyker prescence nil. mutation rate below detection threshold."

"Impossible...How did they survive the long night?"

"Long night was not experienced. Data adepts report world traveled through temporal wormhole from millennium M2. What detection apparatus they have is currently dedicated to analyzing sudden shifts in star locations. The Emperor's Judgement has not been detected."

"I want a full situation report. Summon the magos."

Some time later, the Chapter Master received word that the magos wished to enter the bridge. A curt nod, and the doors hissed open, allowing the hooded figure to approach with a clatter of many legs on the steel of the deck.

"Milord, I have full confidence that this world will more than suffice as a new recruiting ground."

"Suffice?" the chapter master laughed. "This is too good to be true. What defenses does this world have?"

"Primitive atomic weaponry appears to be the greatest threat. They could harm some landing ground forces, but more critically enough are present to cause significant damage to the population and atmosphere of the world. They could in their attempts to harm us destroy themselves.

For your convenience, I have compiled a list of the major nation-states that possess these weapons."

"Servitor, overlay on an augur scan of major population centers."

The chapter master blinked in disbelief. Why were the weapons not being used to guard such a large fraction of the population of this world?

"it is worth noting as well, my lord, that the greatest concentrations of these weapon stations correspond with my analysis of where we might find sickness of mind within this population. The belief in self-determination. The pursuit of idle freedoms."

Kuarakh smiled. "so this was not just a blessing from the Emperor, but a test of our hubris as well.

So be it. A world with one billion untainted souls would have been a miracle. It seems seven was simply a vanishing mirage.

Three will be enough. More than enough. Engage long range weapons. Strike simultaneously, then prepare a landing force to herald our arrival. We will land..." He pointed to a population center near the center of the largest continent. "Here."

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Gert wrote:

Anyway doesn't matter the governments of Earth would be annihilated and the population at the very least decimated and then enslaved.

By what? The marines can't be everywhere at once and canonically have tactics that would make WW2 commandoes laugh, and the IG would have to throw a whole segmentum's worth of troops to even start occupying the planet, since they now have to play by Real World and not GW numbers. Human armies would outnumber the imperial aliens at a similar scale that tyranids usually do...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cronch wrote:
 Gert wrote:

Anyway doesn't matter the governments of Earth would be annihilated and the population at the very least decimated and then enslaved.

By what? The marines can't be everywhere at once and canonically have tactics that would make WW2 commandoes laugh, and the IG would have to throw a whole segmentum's worth of troops to even start occupying the planet, since they now have to play by Real World and not GW numbers. Human armies would outnumber the imperial aliens at a similar scale that tyranids usually do...

Populations that have already in the past had to capitulate to an invading force's cultural, religious and governmental doctrines would be the most likely to be kept alive.

So USA, UK and China gets to stay alive while everyone else dies? It's hard to find populations more enamored with The Boot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/21 19:02:07


 
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





Human armies don't have enough weapons that could scratch a Space Marine. The standard rifle for a soldier in the US army is a 5.56 calibre bullet and a 40k Autogun is 8.5. Autoguns are regularly noted as being woefully insufficient in damaging a Space Marine. The combined armed forces of the Earth amount to about 60 million personnel which includes reservists. Note I said personnel, not soldiers. Real World numbers mean diddly squat when your guns can't hurt the 7ft tall supersoldiers in colossal suits of armour massacring their way through your lines with giant chainsaws, jet packs and a standard-issue weapon with the calibre of an AA gun. We also don't have space ships, which is kind of a big problem. Nuclear weapons are noted as being dangerous but still very primitive compared to the standard weapons found in a Space Marine fleet.
The Marines would use orbital bombardment and precision strikes to eliminate command elements/secure nuclear launch sites/destroy areas of strategic importance. It would take ages for the governments of Earth to unite against them because everyone hates each other and for a time some might even seek a sort of alliance with the Marines to gain favourable terms at the end of the conflict. When your forces are invulnerable to about 80% of the weapons a planet can bring to bear, you're not really going to be worried about doing sneaky commando tactics.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/21 20:08:48


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




First of all, caliber does not equal penetration. Never has. A musket has caliber larger than any modern rifle. Second of all, there's a bucketload of old Garands, Lee Enfields and other such lovelies that could be brought back into service ASAP if needed. Third of all, modern infantry weapon's main weapon is it's MG, Grenade launcher and/or AT missile of choice, and those are more than enough to handle your typical marine boys.
I mean, M1 Abrams has armor thicker than Land Raider (if 3rd ed Chapter Approved is to be believed), and all western MBTs and some post-soviet ones have fire control systems that make eldar tanks seem clumsy in comparison.
The marines could wipe earth out, but they could never conquer it. They're a clumsy, primitive sledgehammer that could be out-manouvered by literally anything in modern arsenal because GW writers didn't spend a moment reading up on 80s+ tech and scaled 40k to ww2 tech more or less.
If you only count IG, a modern army would chew them up in seconds without relying on space guns destroying continents (which kinda defeats the point of conquering earth).
And no, marines "decapitating strikes" don't work, cause real world armies aren't 40k's joke armies where Heroic Individuals command random groups of people. We have chains of command for a reason, and the marines would have to physically eradicate every officer on earth over the rank of an Lt for it to stop working.
40k is a joke setting written by british counter-culture nerds, any attempts to make it stack up to IRL militaries will just make the poor sloppy hackjob fall flat on it's dumb face.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I feel Earth would not put up a fight even if we could, our leadership is basically a freaking joke on our planet, we would cave instantly, the space-marines would laugh at our social justice warriors and just ignore them entirely unless absolutely necessary.

The imperium of man would try to draw astartes from our special operations fighters. They would probably try to "entice" people to apply for special operations training, and then take young soldiers of those and burn them with the irons of astartes related tests looking to take the best of those and use them for gene-seed attempts.
   
Made in gb
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy





 Grimskul wrote:
 Canadian 5th wrote:
We'd break their faith by showing them our 40k rules books and miniatures. Could they handle being seen as just fiction, just a game played for a laugh?


I feel if anything that it would be similar to one of the world's that the Word Bearers GC forces came across that turned out to be worshipping the Emperor. They would see our tabletop franchise as reflection of the Emperor's divine influence on mankind's psyche and probably censor the stuff regarding chaos/xenos, but otherwise I think they wouldn't care much given that most of the Imperium's history is ridden with myths and falsehoods to the common populace, with only select individuals privy to majority of the Imperium's founding.



*Glances at 4k+ pts of Chaos marines. Well lads, it's be a fun run! Have fun fighting that hive fleet whilst this inquisitor with a rather nice hat escorts me into that sealed chamber.
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





bat702 wrote:
I feel Earth would not put up a fight even if we could, our leadership is basically a freaking joke on our planet, we would cave instantly, the space-marines would laugh at our social justice warriors and just ignore them entirely unless absolutely necessary.

The imperium of man would try to draw astartes from our special operations fighters. They would probably try to "entice" people to apply for special operations training, and then take young soldiers of those and burn them with the irons of astartes related tests looking to take the best of those and use them for gene-seed attempts.


Oh cool SJW is still a term people use, great. What makes you think they wouldn't look at racial/religious supremacist groups and laugh at them, they're trying to divide humanity into silly groups when everyone should be united in serving the Emperor and fighting the enemies of mankind. TBH they'd just take a look at humanity as a whole and just say "Nah this isn't worth the effort", then drop some cyclonic torpedoes and leave.

That bit about the Marines taking from SF is also a bit moot considering to be an initiate you need to be about 10-12 years old. A 20-year-old SF soldier is useless to an Astartes chapter outside of maybe beating the kids when they don't do a prayer right. At most, they'd be useful as a sort of chapter homeworld PDF.
   
Made in us
Just the Bare Metal




 the_scotsman wrote:
The areas that are the most accustomed to individual liberties, whose populations survived mutation-causing evolutionary pinches in the past, and who currently enjoy the highest standard of living would be the most likely to be purged.


The Imperium knows a garrison population when it sees one. It’s SOP for a the Imperium to make a guard regiment and their descendants the privileged class on a planet, and the people on earth who are “most accustomed to individual liberties” are the same. They currently provide soldiers and middle managers for the occupation of the rest of the world, and in exchange they get a small portion of the loot, enough for the strange alienating comforts/burdens like mortgages.

The Imperium makes Rhodesias and Ulster Plantations all over the galaxy. There’s a good chance the chance that the current version of rhodesians would realize we’d get to keep our place if we agreed to be occupiers for the imperium.
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





Whose to say that the first 40k faction to find us would be the Imperium?
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Well, we’d have a Planetary Governor of some kind imposed upon us. Could be a Space Marine, could be a Noble House long since allied to the Chapter.

Either way, or existing governments would be swept away entirely. No more borders as we understand them. Likely the cultural re-education when it comes to world faiths.

Given our natural resources are still there to be exploited? Strip mining agogo, because a Chapter Planet needs resources to sustain itself.

And we’d need to consider whether or not our planet would put up resistance.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
 
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