Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok, some questions i'd like answers to, so if we can skip the 'rawbutt girlyman' thing for once...

Given that RG was brought back partially thru the efforts of Yvraine, a "xenos wych" as the imperium would call her, does he have any different feelings towards the eldar now? Would he still consider exterminaion of the eldar a priority? Would he possibly order imperial forces not to engage eldar without prior provocation?

I'm sure he knows that Yvraine helped him for her own reasons and to help her people in the end, not any sort of goodwill or altruism, byt even so you think he might have some hesitancy to kill eldar now without cause being them just being Xenos?

Also, since yvraine was on Macragge, and there when RG came back how widely is is know that a 'xenos wych' was partially responsible for bringing him back? Do the UMs feel any differently towards the eldar now?

If it's widely know he was brought back partially due to an eldar's efforts does they make people in the imperium distrust him?

If RG can accept the eldar did aid him and therefore the imperium to a great extant, and let's face it RGs return is the best thing that could happen to the imperium, would he be willing to work with some other xenos, like the tau? Has he encountered the tau yet? I can almost imagine him reviewing the tau and thinking their society is so much like what the emperor wanted to give humanity...

There is mention of this in the Dark Imperium book. He certainly doesn't trust the Ynnari, and knows they have their own goals.

It is not widely known that Aeldari agents brought him back to life, and those who know are pretty unhappy it was Aeldari who were a part of it.

There is no mention of his thoughts on the Tau. They are not really all that important in the grand scheme of things compaired to the threat of Chaos.

He's probably willing to work with the Aeldari moving forward, mostly against Chaos, as they are an existential threat.

Simply, the extermination of all xenos to protract humanity’s safe domination of the galaxy has been a pillar of the imperial truth since the emperor is now a pillar of the imperial cult. Large parts of the imperium are dedicated to destroying xenos filth, eradication of their heretical presence wherever they find it and bringin justice to any humans that consort with xenos.

Unless GW think it’s cool to have imperial agents working with xenos. Then it’s fine. You know, if it sell books or whatever.

The whole "Purge the Xenos" thing is a blanket statement but it's consistently shown that if needs be the Imperium will work with Xenos. It's not a permanent alliance deal but the Craftworlds often align themselves with Imperial forces (whether in secret or overtly) usually to stop the machinations of Chaos. Xenos agents are often employed by Rogue Traders and Inquisitors in their retinues to provide a specific set of skills. It really depends on the circumstances of the Xenos presence. For example, a Craftworld Ulthwe force arrives to kill a Chaos Lord attacking an Imperial World defended by Cadians. The Cadians are probably not going to divert forces to kill the Ulthwe force because the CSM are the biggest threat.
If a crusade of Black Templars is fighting T'au in the Eastern Fringe and the planet starts spewing up Necrons, despite the Black Templars being very pro kill the Xenos, they would still likely attempt a cease-fire with the T'au to deal with the Necrons. If the Necrons are dealt with the T'au are then fair game.

For Guilliman specifically, no he doesn't trust the Ynnari because they are still Aeldari and are just as likely to kill him as help him. Barely anyone knows that Yvraine assisted in Guilliman's resurrection because that would be less than accepted in the Imperium, it's billed as just a plain old miracle using Imperial Faith and Mechanicus gubbins.

The Tau are still on diplomatic terms with the wider imperium, as demonstrated in the Cain books. The Inquisition has active "spies" in their diplomatic caste that are actively working to undermine their efforts.

The rest of the Xenos of the Universe are pretty much shoot on sight. Orks, Nids, GSC, Dark Eldar are shoot first, recon after.

Regular Eldar might be talk first, depending on who is in control of the imperial force. But it's usually shoot. Doesn't Gaunt meet a farseer conclave in book 3-4 and basically side with them against a Chaos Sorcerer?

That is about the closest it comes to good terms with the Eldar, and even that is a little unbelievable...and only because a literal inquisitor ordered them to hold fire.

The incident with the Ghosts was a weird one. One company was tricked by the Aeldari magic at work in the area into thinking they were fighting to save Tanith from the Chaos invasion that destroyed it. The others did ally with the Aeldari warriors because the inquisitor that was with them had the same name as one of their Gods. It is an early 40k Black Library book written in the early 2000s when 3rd edition was around and they tend to be a bit different from the background we have today. Things like the Iron Warriors being a Chapter and the Heresy being mentioned quite a bit throughout the series, despite modern lore stating it's a very repressed event that only the highest echelons of the Imperium know about.

I can't really think of a more recent example of CANNON cooperation between Xenos and Imperium aside from the Cain series with the Tau diplomats against the GSC infestation. Not sure the date on that one.

There was the Sisters book where the Ad Mech "kidnapped/enslaved/cooperated" with a Necron intelligence to create some weird Hybrid stuff, which worked about the same as when they pulled the exact same thing with the Nids in the Cain Books. Imperium got pissed, killed everything.

There has never been any cooperation that I am aware of by orks and humans, unless we are counting DoW as cannon?

Vigilus had a last-ditch effort between Saim Hann and the Imperium to stop Abbadon from taking the planet. Was really stupid. As in, loaded a bunch of Vortex missiles onto a very rare Ghost Ship and then rammed the Vengeful Spirit. Then Abbadon pulled back despite the Black Legion having two more Glorianna ships, at least one Blackstone fortress, and the Planet Killer. The CSM did really well in the whole campaign and then one ship gets damaged then the whole invasion is called off.
The Ynnari helping the last survivors of Cadia escape into the Webway during Gathering Storm.
Harlequins helping Guilliman escape the Red Corsairs during Gathering Storm.
It's always the Craftworld/Harlequin Aeldari because the Nids/Crons just want to kill, the T'au get told to buzz off, the Orks are Orks, and the Drukhari like peeling peoples skin off for fun.

Which getting back to the point, there is really no coordination with the greater imperium and the Eldar. Most chapters shoot on sight. Ultras do Ultra things to the lore, and are generally White Knight Paladins.

Nah the Ultramarines in general still shoot first when it comes to Xenos. The Wake the Dead box story had them doing just that on Vigilus. Calgar has to smooth it over with Saim Hann and basically accept responsibility for the whole engagement i.e. humiliation. They are also largely responsible for checking the advance of the T'au into the Eastern Fringe and Ultramar. One of the Ventris novels only has them win because the T'au Ethereal is threatened and Ventris gives them the ultimatum of "leave or I order Exterminatus on the planet".

Nope, he is still held in that stasis field, the mortal wound that would have killed him still visible on his neck, as far as I am concerned

We're allowed to do that, aren't we?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

There has never been any cooperation that I am aware of by orks and humans, unless we are counting DoW as cannon?

There's plenty. That's pretty much the entire basis of the Blood Axes as a clan, up to including why they wear uniforms and caps.
Imperium hires ork mercs, bribes them (with teef and/or weapons) and provides technical advisors. It doesn't always work out and sometimes backfires, but yes, there is.

mrFickle wrote:Unless GW think it’s cool to have imperial agents working with xenos. Then it’s fine. You know, if it sell books or whatever.

GW have had it be cool for decades.
Radical Inquisitors, alliances of convenience, even honourable retreats and mutual respect - it's been a thing for genuine decades.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:I can't really think of a more recent example of CANNON cooperation between Xenos and Imperium aside from the Cain series with the Tau diplomats against the GSC infestation. Not sure the date on that one.

I can count ones mentioned in at least the 5th Ed Space Marine Codex, with the Ultramarines vs Tau on Malbede, with both sides teaming up (and Calgar explicitly letting the Tau retreat) to deal with Necrons. I can recall Traitor's Gorge, where Pedro Kantor is saved by Eldar Rangers, and he welcomes the aid. And, of course, there's Ichar IV, and even the aftermath of Malan'tai, where Grey Knights go out of their way to protect Eldar soulstones and contact another Craftworld to pick them up.

There has never been any cooperation that I am aware of by orks and humans, unless we are counting DoW as cannon?

Enemy of my Enemy is a short story that is focused on a very close alliance between an Imperial Guard and Ork commander. It's rather amusing.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I can't really think of a more recent example of CANNON cooperation between Xenos and Imperium aside from the Cain series with the Tau diplomats against the GSC infestation. Not sure the date on that one.

The only sort of CANNON cooperation you see between the Imperium and Xenos is the cooperation between the Xenos and the shells from an Earthshaker Cannon.

Now, cooperation within the canon is another matter entirely - there's a second Cain book with further cooperation with the Tau against the Tyranids, for example, though I can't remember the title off the top fo my head.

 Dysartes wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I can't really think of a more recent example of CANNON cooperation between Xenos and Imperium aside from the Cain series with the Tau diplomats against the GSC infestation. Not sure the date on that one.

The only sort of CANNON cooperation you see between the Imperium and Xenos is the cooperation between the Xenos and the shells from an Earthshaker Cannon.

Now, cooperation within the canon is another matter entirely - there's a second Cain book with further cooperation with the Tau against the Tyranids, for example, though I can't remember the title off the top fo my head.

So would that be canon cannon cooperation?

I knew I messes that up. Thank you Dysarts for making it hilarious at least!

Voss wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

There has never been any cooperation that I am aware of by orks and humans, unless we are counting DoW as cannon?

There's plenty. That's pretty much the entire basis of the Blood Axes as a clan, up to including why they wear uniforms and caps.
Imperium hires ork mercs, bribes them (with teef and/or weapons) and provides technical advisors. It doesn't always work out and sometimes backfires, but yes, there is.

Yep - lots of co-operation if you go back to 1st/2nd edition, with Orks working as mercs for humans and the like.
Some of this carried on with the Blood Axes (through the Epic editions) which traded with humies for their weapons. There is a really great piece of art from that time showing this, think was probably in the 2nd edition Space Marine rulebook or Ork & Squat Warlords.

As the Ork lore has developed, they went from being communities of Orks (which were modelled almost as archaic/disorganised human settlements) to coming from spores and not having a human-like family structure (I think that was some of the changes that Gav Thorpe brought in for 3rd or 4th edition, am not sure exactly), at this point the concept of them becomes increasingly alien and they are portrayed as being so belligerent that them meeting with humans to do anything other than kill them seems less likely.

at this point the concept of them becomes increasingly alien and they are portrayed as being so belligerent that them meeting with humans to do anything other than kill them seems less likely.

Unless you read the Blood Axe clan entry in the current codex. Even the more general bits mention observers in ork settlements (though there is a risk of not surviving)

They have toned it down, but its still part of the current background.

Guilliman fixed the Armor of Fate (or whatever its called now) because he distrusted the Eldar tech, and cryptic warning that he couldn't take it off... so he took it off.

I assume that as in real life practicality often overrides dogma.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I can't really think of a more recent example of CANNON cooperation between Xenos and Imperium aside from the Cain series with the Tau diplomats against the GSC infestation. Not sure the date on that one.

There was the Sisters book where the Ad Mech "kidnapped/enslaved/cooperated" with a Necron intelligence to create some weird Hybrid stuff, which worked about the same as when they pulled the exact same thing with the Nids in the Cain Books. Imperium got pissed, killed everything.

There has never been any cooperation that I am aware of by orks and humans, unless we are counting DoW as cannon?

It may already have been mentioned, but RT featured Ork mercenaries working temporarily with the Guard.
This has never been explicitly denied, not OOU and not to my knowledge in-universe.

 Pacific wrote:
As the Ork lore has developed, they went from being communities of Orks (which were modelled almost as archaic/disorganised human settlements) to coming from spores and not having a human-like family structure (I think that was some of the changes that Gav Thorpe brought in for 3rd or 4th edition, am not sure exactly), at this point the concept of them becomes increasingly alien and they are portrayed as being so belligerent that them meeting with humans to do anything other than kill them seems less likely.

To be fair the original 'lore' even in the RT rulebook was that at first contact, Man and Ork both took a long look at what was in front of them and started shooting immediately as for the spores, I always assumed it was a hand-wavey thing for Gorkamorka to get around why 'da Boyz' were multiplying despite constant skirmishing among an isolated population, without having to imply girls or sex seeing as I don't really remember it being A Thing before that game. Pity, as the 'orks get bigger as they get harder' is effectively a way of describing IRL mating strategies, and I always liked the idea of my boss at some point 'retiring' to some backwater wildboyz planet with his harem.

In fairness, I never tried to imagine the harem too vividly (pity there's no 'about to vomit' orkmoji on this site!)

DalekCheese wrote:
It may already have been mentioned, but RT featured Ork mercenaries working temporarily with the Guard.
This has never been explicitly denied, not OOU and not to my knowledge in-universe.

That was also Blood Axe's special rule in 'Ere We Go, they could legit have Imperial Guard allies (well, a mysteriously well organised and equipped 'mercenary band' whose totally-not-a-commissar leader certainly wasn't spying on them and trying to manipulate them away from attacking places actually important to the Imperium. It was left ambiguous as to how much the Blood Axes knew/cared about such shenanigans as they were still getting loot and fights out of the deal)

 DalekCheese wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I can't really think of a more recent example of CANNON cooperation between Xenos and Imperium aside from the Cain series with the Tau diplomats against the GSC infestation. Not sure the date on that one.

There was the Sisters book where the Ad Mech "kidnapped/enslaved/cooperated" with a Necron intelligence to create some weird Hybrid stuff, which worked about the same as when they pulled the exact same thing with the Nids in the Cain Books. Imperium got pissed, killed everything.

There has never been any cooperation that I am aware of by orks and humans, unless we are counting DoW as cannon?

It may already have been mentioned, but RT featured Ork mercenaries working temporarily with the Guard.
This has never been explicitly denied, not OOU and not to my knowledge in-universe.

Blood Axe Mercenaries working for the Imperium still exists in modern fluff.