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Made in us
Stalwart Space Marine





South Carolina, USA

The Ork codex was previewed the other day. Along with Beast-snagga models (including squighog riders, which are super cool). But does anyone have any indication what upgrades Orks might be receiving that will make them competitive again?

I ask because my second son plays orks and rants at great length about how bad their armor and wounds are and how desperately they need improvements to be viable on the table. I think he has some valid points and we have discussed what changes we would make, but I'm curious if anyone has any leads on what might be coming down the pike.

Squats 2020! 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




Nope.

We know the beastsnagga boys are 'somewhere between a boy or nob' (so... probably Strength 5) and... that's about it.

There's probably at least two more kits we haven't seen (in plastic, they're likely in the video art).

No idea on overall changes to the army unless they talked about it in the video on friday.
I do suspect that some of the clan traits will change. Snakebites/Blood Axes do too little, and Deathskulls does too much, and the rest are staggered in between. Hopefully they'll be brought in line (and upwards for most of them)


I have doubts about the Beastsnagga Squighog unit, just because the Khorne bloodcrushers exist and are far too easy to kill.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Everything could break on points or special traits. If they get some pseudo fly all terrain type of movment or at ~35pts for 3W per raider, they could find some us. Specially if they move fast.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

There were a few hints that Beast Snaggas will benefit more from the Snakebites Kultur than any other (much like Speed Freeks do with the Evil Sunz Kultur) but seeing as how this is basically a total re-write of the codex that could just be GW's take on the matter and not how it plays on the table.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

Makes you wonder what the other half of the updated Kultur rule will be since 6+++ isn't something that could be better or worst for any type of model.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

 Ghaz wrote:
There were a few hints that Beast Snaggas will benefit more from the Snakebites Kultur than any other (much like Speed Freeks do with the Evil Sunz Kultur) but seeing as how this is basically a total re-write of the codex that could just be GW's take on the matter and not how it plays on the table.
But the biggest benefit for Evil Suns goes to Meganobz, not Speed Freaks.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 JNAProductions wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
There were a few hints that Beast Snaggas will benefit more from the Snakebites Kultur than any other (much like Speed Freeks do with the Evil Sunz Kultur) but seeing as how this is basically a total re-write of the codex that could just be GW's take on the matter and not how it plays on the table.

But the biggest benefit for Evil Suns goes to Meganobz, not Speed Freaks.

Except they noted that they get more of a benefit from the Evil Sunz Kultur than any other Kultur, not that they a bigger benefit from the Evil Sunz Kultur than any other unit.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Confident Goblin Boss






I expect like most 9th edition codexs so far, there will be a lot of changes across the board. I'm looking forward to seeing what the army will look like.

Space Wolves 4k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
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Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

 Ghaz wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
There were a few hints that Beast Snaggas will benefit more from the Snakebites Kultur than any other (much like Speed Freeks do with the Evil Sunz Kultur) but seeing as how this is basically a total re-write of the codex that could just be GW's take on the matter and not how it plays on the table.

But the biggest benefit for Evil Suns goes to Meganobz, not Speed Freaks.

Except they noted that they get more of a benefit from the Evil Sunz Kultur than any other Kultur, not that they a bigger benefit from the Evil Sunz Kultur than any other unit.
I dunno. I'd much rather have a 6++ on units that have 12" or more of move than an extra 2"-4" of move.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Honestly we're a month or 2 away from codex release. Keep your eyes out, sooner or later you'll start to see the simplified datasheets being leaked/released with repackaged boxes. Then you'll be able to start guessing what upgrades have been made.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






I can see Deffskullz being reduced to having the 6++ save and Obsec on all units. Or they make it a 6++ save, Obsec on all infantry, and our units get to make one reroll to wound roll for each unit in each phase.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Ghaz wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
There were a few hints that Beast Snaggas will benefit more from the Snakebites Kultur than any other (much like Speed Freeks do with the Evil Sunz Kultur) but seeing as how this is basically a total re-write of the codex that could just be GW's take on the matter and not how it plays on the table.

But the biggest benefit for Evil Suns goes to Meganobz, not Speed Freaks.

Except they noted that they get more of a benefit from the Evil Sunz Kultur than any other Kultur, not that they a bigger benefit from the Evil Sunz Kultur than any other unit.


What are you talking about? Speed freeks already get an extra bonus from being evil suns over non-speed freeks. Snakebites probably get an additional bonus for beast snaggas (for example 5+++ instead of 6+++), but that doesn't mean that beast snaggas might not be better as deff skulls or goff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 dadx6 wrote:
The Ork codex was previewed the other day. Along with Beast-snagga models (including squighog riders, which are super cool). But does anyone have any indication what upgrades Orks might be receiving that will make them competitive again?

I ask because my second son plays orks and rants at great length about how bad their armor and wounds are and how desperately they need improvements to be viable on the table. I think he has some valid points and we have discussed what changes we would make, but I'm curious if anyone has any leads on what might be coming down the pike.


As others have said, there is not much known. If you expect orks to be harder to kill, that's highly unlikely, as quantity over quality is the primary army theme.
It's also not like orks aren't a viable army, while they lack the ability to remain undefeated for multiple games in a row, they definitely can win just as often as the 9th edition codices that aren't drukhari. If he isn't able to regularly win games with them now, it's unlikely that the new codex will help him greatly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/10 09:39:29


Earth is not flat
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Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






During the reveal feed, they showed off....

Snagga Boyz
Squighog Cavalry
Zodgrod
Nob on Squighog
Mega Armour Warboss

They went on to say this is around half of what’s coming. Now, let’s take that at absolute face value, and not a rough indication. 5 kits shown, 5 kits yet to be shown.

So far, everything (except Zodgrod, I think) has featured in the teaser animation. And that animation contains stuff yet to be seen. From memory?

1. New Boys. Distinctively different from what exists, due to shoulder mounted and very Rogue Trader era looking heavy weapons.
2. Some large vehicle for Snaggas, pulled by at least one Squig
3. Snagga Warboss in Mega Armour.

And on Saturday’s animation, there was a plan to be all sneaky. That could be interpreted as teasing Kommandos, so they could be a 4th as yet unseen unit.

Is there a 5th in the wings? Quite possibly. Dunno what it might be though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and what feels like flipping ages ago, they did a reveal teaser video for 40K characters.\

We’ve seen the SoB and Ad Mech ones - but no sign of the Ork also teased. Seems a safe bet it’ll be coming soon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/10 09:44:54


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Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






@Mad Doc, they said half of the new kits are in the box, not that half of the new kits are shown on the stream.

This is what I posted in the ork thread:
 Jidmah wrote:
Full run-down of what we know, including images of the model and the tapestry spoiler:

In the box:
1. Nob on Smasha Squig
Spoiler:




2. Zodgrod Wortsnagga
Spoiler:




3. Squighog Riders
Spoiler:




4. Beast Snagga Boyz
Spoiler:




Not in the box:
1. Pain boss
Spoiler:




2. Mega Boss
Spoiler:




3. Squig Sled (not revealed yet)
Spoiler:




4. Beast Snagga Warboss? (not revealed yet)
Spoiler:




The "new boyz" are very likely just lootas with a bit of artistic freedom, one of them looks exactly like one of the guns from the kit. It's fairly safe to assume that anything that the beastsnagga talker deemed to be not proppa orky is not going to be a release.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/10 10:19:15


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






that Beast Snaga Warboss is the warboss in mega armor. He may have an alternative Beast Snaga build but is clearly the same big shoota gretchin on his shoulder.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would expect at least one of the wtwo remaining finecast units in the basic ork codex to get a new kit - kommandos or tankbustas.probably kommandos as it's easier to make tankbustas from plastic as-is (most ork troop kits come with a rokkit launcha compatible to any ork body, that's how most people I know make their tankbustas)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/10 12:14:31


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 the_scotsman wrote:
that Beast Snaga Warboss is the warboss in mega armor. He may have an alternative Beast Snaga build but is clearly the same big shoota gretchin on his shoulder.

Not really, the two orks have next to nothing in common. The beast snagga boss isn't even wearing mega-armour, which kind of makes sense for feral orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would expect at least one of the wtwo remaining finecast units in the basic ork codex to get a new kit - kommandos or tankbustas.probably kommandos as it's easier to make tankbustas from plastic as-is (most ork troop kits come with a rokkit launcha compatible to any ork body, that's how most people I know make their tankbustas)


They literally used a famous scratch-build of kommandoz to depict them in the second video, there is a showballs chance in hell that they would make new ones.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




They're doing the disaster they did with the SoB box where you can't buy the codex except in the box for "a short period of time" (which was like 3 months for SoB), so you'll presumably have plenty of time to figure out what's good and bad if you don't want to shell out for the box.
   
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




Australia

Cawl-pattern Choppas.

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The Fourth Seal  
   
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Cawl-pattern Choppas.

HARHARHARHARHAR.

You gonna ask "Where's the beef?" as an encore meme?

To the OP:
We don't know what upgrades are coming for Orks. We just know there's a large selection of new kits, and what we have seen via the Beast-Snaggas is supposed to be "only half of what's coming".
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

I ask because my second son plays orks and rants at great length about how bad their armor and wounds are and how desperately they need improvements to be viable on the table. I think he has some valid points and we have discussed what changes we would make, but I'm curious if anyone has any leads on what might be coming down the pike.


For what it's worth, ork armor has always sucked. If you want to play an army that can make saves, play space marines.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Shock attack tank please and a squiggoth
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Mr. Grey wrote:
I ask because my second son plays orks and rants at great length about how bad their armor and wounds are and how desperately they need improvements to be viable on the table. I think he has some valid points and we have discussed what changes we would make, but I'm curious if anyone has any leads on what might be coming down the pike.


For what it's worth, ork armor has always sucked. If you want to play an army that can make saves, play space marines.

Yeah, if you think the be-all and end-all of a decent army is good armour and multiple wounds on individual models, what the hell are you doing anywhere near Orks to begin with? I mean, sure, load up on Nobz and Meganobz if that's what you're after, but it's never been the army's general vibe.
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





 alextroy wrote:
Makes you wonder what the other half of the updated Kultur rule will be since 6+++ isn't something that could be better or worst for any type of model.


Actually yes it can. 6+++ helps more the more wounds you have. It is at best marginal to zero boost on W1 models.

2021 painted/bought: 506/499 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

tneva82 wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
Makes you wonder what the other half of the updated Kultur rule will be since 6+++ isn't something that could be better or worst for any type of model.


Actually yes it can. 6+++ helps more the more wounds you have. It is at best marginal to zero boost on W1 models.
No, it helps equally, provided you don't get overkilled.

You need to do 12 damage (from Damage 1 attacks) to kill ten 1 Wound models with a 6+++.
You need to do 12 damage (in any combination of attack Damages) to kill a 10-Wound model with a 6+++.

Sure, if your Ork Boys are getting bopped by D2 and D3 attacks, that 6+++ becomes practically useless, but your enemy is also wasting superior firepower on cheap models. It'd be much better for them to shoot Dark Lances and Meltas into Buggies, rather than Boys.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Eh, orks generally require you to pick between infantry and vehicles, so your opponent will always be shooting something inefficient at you. Not having and defense besides wound count kind of forces you to do that.

But outside of that, you are correct. Whether you ignore one in six damage dealt to 10 models with 1 wound or 1 model with 10 wounds makes little difference.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan





Fayetteville NC

My bet is the new Ork infantry in the big box release will be a troop choice and be T5 while the existing Orks remain at T4. Primaris-izing Orks, so to speak

Whoah....I have played 40K for over 30 years.  
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






We already know that the infantry will be a troops choice called Beast Snagga Boyz.

T5 would be odd if nobz don't get T5 as well.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

 Jidmah wrote:
We already know that the infantry will be a troops choice called Beast Snagga Boyz.

T5 would be odd if nobz don't get T5 as well.


Has it been mentioned that they're a Troops choice, though? They could be Elites.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





TBH though, all non-GEQ infantries (troops or not) should be at 2W minimum.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Ghaz no longer degrades. He is now always A7 / M7 / S7.

His gun went from A12 to RF12. It might be nice to see big shootas go the RF route to try and make them a little better.

   
 
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