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Made in us
Raging Ravener





Hey all,

Does drive by demolitions require you to have shot with your bikers or can you just spend 1 cp to double move?

Giving me a reason to hive the leader a 24 inch autogun.
DRIVE-BY DEMOLITIONS

The Rusted Claw Stratagem

The riders of the Rusted Claw attack with reckless verve, making close-range explosive attacks on the foe before speeding off in a cloud of flame and swirling dust.

Use this Stratagem before a RUSTED CLAW BIKER unit from your army shoots in your Shooting phase. Until the end of the phase, add 1 to hit and wound rolls made for attacks with that unit’s Grenade weapons. After this unit has resolved all of its shooting attacks this phase, it can immediately make a move as if it were your Movement phase, but cannot charge this turn.
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

Use of the phrase "After this unit has resolved all of its shooting attacks this phase" implies that yes they must, although could you instead state "Ok I select this unit to shoot. They won't shoot with anything but now that they've resolved the shooting attack they can now move".

   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Shooting phase rules: "When you select a unit to shoot with, you select targets and resolve attacks with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equippped with".

My interpretation is that you have permission to shoot with 'any weapons', which you can decide is no weapons. Your shooting attacks for that unit are then resolved and you can use the stratagem.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 15:42:44


7215 points 80 points 140 points
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3116 points
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The only requirement in the book to select a unit to shoot is that it be armed with one or more ranged weapons (and that it didn't advance or fall back, unless it has special rules). There is no requirement that you actually shoot those weapons, nor is there any requirement that you have a valid target for any of those weapons.

Note this does mean that if you advance your bikers, they need to be armed with at least one assault weapon in order to be able to eligible to start the shooting sequence.

The strat itself is ambiguous as to whether you need to even be able to start the sequence at all though, as it just says "before they shoot," not "when you select them to shoot." But then it says "after all attacks have been resolved," which implies that you at least started the shooting sequence. This is a great example of GW's bad rule writing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 16:37:34


 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

You must shoot when you use this stratagem. The wording "after all attacks have been resolved," is pretty clear.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





Well rusted claw treat all pistol and rapid fire weapons as assault. So they are good there.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
You must shoot when you use this stratagem. The wording "after all attacks have been resolved," is pretty clear.


As long as the unit is eligible to be selected to shoot, I don't see why it actually has to make any attacks. "After all attacks have been resolved" just denotes the timing of when the second move occurs, it doesn't say "you must make at least one attack." If you select the unit to shoot then elect not to shoot any of its weapons, then that is "after all attacks have been resolved."

   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

SHOOTING PHASE

Start your Shooting phase by selecting one eligible unit from your army to shoot with. An eligible unit is one that has one or more models equipped with ranged weapons. Units that Advanced this turn, and units that Fell Back (other than TITANIC units) this turn are not eligible. If you have no eligible units, your Shooting phase ends. After you have shot with one of your eligible units, you can then select another of your eligible units to shoot with, and so on, until you have shot with as many of your units as you wish.

When you select a unit to shoot with, you select targets and resolve attacks with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equipped with (each ranged weapon can only be shot once per phase). The ranged weapons that models in a unit are equipped with are detailed on its datasheet.

No unit can be selected to shoot with more than once in each Shooting phase. Once all your eligible units that you wish to shoot with have done so, your Shooting phase ends and you progress to the Charge phase.


When you select one eligible unit from your army to shoot with, you select targets and resolve attacks with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equipped with. Resolving attacks are mandatory, not optional, once you select one eligible unit from your army to shoot with. The steps to resolve attacks are :

1. Hit roll
2. Wound roll
3. Allocate Attack
4. Saving throw
5. Inflict Damage

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 08:12:05


 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 p5freak wrote:
SHOOTING PHASE

Start your Shooting phase by selecting one eligible unit from your army to shoot with. An eligible unit is one that has one or more models equipped with ranged weapons. Units that Advanced this turn, and units that Fell Back (other than TITANIC units) this turn are not eligible. If you have no eligible units, your Shooting phase ends. After you have shot with one of your eligible units, you can then select another of your eligible units to shoot with, and so on, until you have shot with as many of your units as you wish.

When you select a unit to shoot with, you select targets and resolve attacks with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equipped with (each ranged weapon can only be shot once per phase). The ranged weapons that models in a unit are equipped with are detailed on its datasheet.

No unit can be selected to shoot with more than once in each Shooting phase. Once all your eligible units that you wish to shoot with have done so, your Shooting phase ends and you progress to the Charge phase.


When you select one eligible unit from your army to shoot with, you select targets and resolve attacks with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equipped with. Resolving attacks are mandatory, not optional, once you select one eligible unit from your army to shoot with. The steps to resolve attacks are :

1. Hit roll
2. Wound roll
3. Allocate Attack
4. Saving throw
5. Inflict Damage

This seems correct.

However, you can shoot pistols as long as you only have 1 model in range and LoS you will only make one attack with a pistol, and then can mode because of the drive by demolitions rules.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




"Any" weapons includes 0 weapons.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

nosferatu1001 wrote:
"Any" weapons includes 0 weapons.
True, it does say "with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equipped with". The language "any or all" means no weapons to all their weapons.

So on further assessment my previous statement seems incorrect, and it can be 0 weapons.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

I dont see how no weapon can be any weapon. I agree that you can shoot with a pistol, and then move as if its the movement phase.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





OK, but "after all attacks" would apply after all of 0 attacks have been made, ie if you aren't shooting at all.
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

You dont resolve shooting when you dont shoot. And you have to resolve shooting, because the stratagem says so.

After this unit has resolved all of its shooting attacks this phase....


I have already quoted the 5 steps needed to resolve shooting attacks.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Right, but all of your shooting attacks ARE resolved. Because there weren't any.
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

You cannot resolve what isnt there. The stratagem requires you to resolve attacks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 11:17:06


 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 p5freak wrote:
You cannot resolve what isnt there. The stratagem requires you to resolve attacks.


No, it requires that all attacks be resolved.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Any can include zero. If the text read ALL, then it would mean you have to shoot, but any can be zero.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
You cannot resolve what isnt there. The stratagem requires you to resolve attacks.

Yes, and the resolution of no attack is trivial.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





After re reading the steps here I think you can do it.

There is no requirement for a unit to be eligible to shoot other than having ranged weapons.

The bikers have ranged weapons.

You select them to shoot, realize there is nothing in range, resolve "all 0 attacks" and then spen 1 cp to double move.

To keep the game reasonable and not have an issue at the table ill give the jackal leader an 24 inch auto gun that he treats as assault and just get 1 shot off.

Thanks for the discussion.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





Livermore, Ca

Yes you are correct.

"After this unit has resolved all of its shooting attacks this phase". Any or all or none, doesn't matter. Declare that unit done shooting, and follow the next step of the stratagem.



FYI, there's at least one FAQ and I think two that support this type of logic. Ones for Tsons phoenix rising book (2nd page on the Q&A section) and I can not recall the other, but the wording is the same.

   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






monkey wrench in the plans: No possible targets makes a unit ineligible to shoot.

BRB, shooting, Select Targets, 2nd paragraph: "Only enemy units can be chosen as the target for an attack. In order to target an enemy unit, at least one model in that unit must be within range (i.e. within the distance of the Range characteristic) of the weapon being used and be visible to the shooting model. If unsure, get a look from behind the firing model to see if any part of the target
is visible. For the purposes of determining visibility, a model can see through other models in its unit. If there are no eligible targets for a weapon then that weapon cannot shoot. If this is the case for all of a
unit’s ranged weapons, then that unit is not eligible to shoot with.
"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/20 10:53:11


This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

Even if there are eligible targets in range you still could resolve shooting with 0 weapons, and move. Which i still doubt.
   
 
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