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Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut

I had an idea about a space marine chapter stuck in the imperium nihilus. Their supplies begin running low, and they’re finding it difficult to maintain the number of bolt weapons their astartes require. Step in a savvy tech marine who makes an upscaled hotshot lasgun suitable for an astartes build. They begin rolling these weapons out to the battle brothers in a means to solve their supply issues.

In terms of the table top, I’d imagine something fairly simple:
- All models with bolt pistols would exchange these for hotshot laspistols.
- All models with bolters would exchange these for hotshot lasguns.
- All models with stormbolters, hurricane bolters, or assault cannons would exchange these for hotshot volley guns.
- Add the hotshot volley gun to the special weapon list.
- Remove heavy bolters from the heavy weapon list. Instead replace it with a multi-laser for 5 points.
- All models with heavy bolters would exchange these for multi-lasers and have their points cost reduced by 5 per heavy bolter replaced.

I just thought it’d be cool to see. I’m just brainstorming loudly.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/05/23 00:17:58

Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut

Sounds like a fun modeling project. If you like the idea, then go for it!

That said, I worry that this would have several fluff and crunch problems:
* Pretty sure creating up-scaled hotshot weaponry could technically be considered a form of tech heresy for the same (silly) reason we apparently can't upscale chairs to let primaris sit inside rhinos and droppods.

* If the reason for using non-bolt weaponsis that supplies are scarce, I'm not sure taking the time to have one techmarine (and his staff) modify random lasguns and their components into hotshots is a logical way to solve that problem. Like, bolt shells aren't exclusively manufactured on one side of the Cicatrix Maledictum. Bolt weapon suppliers exist in your marines' neighborhood. But rather than using existing ammo for existing weapons, your guys are inventing (well, up-scaling) tech and creating it themselves and specifically using the hotshot version of lastech that (iirc) is prone to burning out relatively quickly.

So even if the general idea is to utilize relatively common weaponry (and note that hotshots are about as rare as bolt weapons), they'd be better off using non-hotshot versions of the same tech so that their ammo lasts longer.

*Crunch-wise, weapon selection is part of what gives a faction its identity. A marine decked out in tau gear or wielding a shuriken catapult is a cool visual, but I don't really want marines to have rules for that sort of thing. (At least outside of DW.) How much less unique does a scion feel if hotshot marines exist? How much less essential is he if there's a 2W power armoured version of him out there doing the same job?

But again, if you and your friends think it sounds like fun to model/play with, have fun. Consider not letting hotshot weapons benefit from doctrines given that they already have decent AP and doctrines are meant to represent dogmatic techniques that might not apply to newfangled heretechal weapon loadouts.
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut

You make some good points. This is more of a homebrew lore thing than actual gameplay. I just thought I’d write up some quick rules to make it possible.

I do disagree on the rarity of hotshot weapons. There’s quadrillions of Guardsmen, even if 1% of them are Scions that’s still trillions of Scions. Then there’s also heavy infantry regiments in the Guard similarly equipped with carapace and hotshot lasguns. Then there’s grenadiers, kasrkins, etc.

The other thing about upscaled weapons is that if they have the same output they’d actually be more robust than their smaller scale counterparts. Thicker barrel walls, larger more sturdy parts, more overall area for dispersing heat, etc. That’s what happens when you make a weapon bigger it can either be more reliable or more powerful.

Agreed on the tech heresy but that’s a matter to be resolved after they’re relieved from their nihilus situation. They’d probably drop the hotshots once the primaris arrive.

Similar point for the production of bolters and bolt shells. Worlds are often reliant on foreign deliveries of materials and goods. So they have to find an alternate and more renewable weapon source.

I definitely wouldn’t have the hotshots affected by any bolter abilities. 100% agree there.
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests

Right behind you.

The problem with "hotshot weapons", lorewise, is that hellguns were the thing that grenadiers, kasrkin, etc had.

Hellguns: backpack mounted cooling system and battery wired directly into the gun. Automated cutoffs etc etc.

"Hotshot" was a few different things...but most notably a type of overcharged battery pack that can get used in lasguns. Stormtroopers had a variant lasgun that, depending upon the edition, had a cooling system wired to the gun and a separate hotshot battery pack or was basically a hellgun.
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut

Marines have a fusion reactor on their backs - it should be pretty straightforward to connect power lines to a lasgun/hellgun and charge it from the backpack.
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut

 Hellebore wrote:
Marines have a fusion reactor on their backs - it should be pretty straightforward to connect power lines to a lasgun/hellgun and charge it from the backpack.

Oh, I don't doubt a sufficiently heretechal tech priest could whip something up. I'm just pointing out that it probably would be tech heresy and that the galaxy being split in half doesn't necessarily mean that bolter ammo becomes significantly more scarce. If your chapter gets most of their ammo from the next forge world over and that forgeworld is still standing, your shipments have probably gone largely unchanged.

You make a good point about the availability of power though. Burning through power cells could be counter-intuitive if your reason for making hotshot marine weapons is to deal with an ammo shortage, but that's probably not much of an issue if you're toting around a power reactor in your backpack.

But hey, nothing wrong with doing this if you think it's a cool idea. I would probably call shenanigans on a loyalist chapter that intentionally has all its members get possessed by daemons with the intent of casting said daemons out and getting supernatural buffs as a result. But that chapter just got rules in White Dwarf, so what do I know? Hotshot marines sound like the sort of thing that could conceivably happen somewhere in the big, weird galaxy. Have fun with it.
Made in gb
Ship's Officer

Bristol (UK)

Generally combining two existing designs isn't considered tech heresy. 40k is full of design modifications to vehicles and weapons.

A lot of the Baneblade variants are described as having originated as expedient scratch builds, such as mounting artillery guns in the chassis because they've run out of Volcano Cannons and there's a titan right there.
Leman Russes, Landraiders, etc are all the same.

The idea that absolutely no modification can be done at all, ever, is rather an extreme flanderisation of the situation.

Fluffwise, I think it's workable.
I think it's unlikely because Astartes are basically gods to the common man in 40k. If there's a chapter running low on bolter rounds, the sector will move mountains to supply them bolter rounds.
Made in nz
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker

New Zealand

I thought that most Chapters manufacture the ammo themselves.
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests

Right behind you.

Tygre wrote:
I thought that most Chapters manufacture the ammo themselves.

They do, but that doesn't stop the nonsense of "space marines should have lasguns, cause ammo and realism!"
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