Switch Theme:

How do Imperial Navy vessels dock?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Imperial Recruit in Training





How do Imperial Navy ships dock at orbital ports or space forts?

They're too large for most extant in-universe designs to accommodate them in a hangar, so they'd need a pretty impressive umbilical system so far as I can tell, but there's just no obvious points on the ship designs that it'd connect at.

   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




United Kingdom

Generally it's umbilicals or shuttles / lighters - have a look at the Angels of Death preview from about 5:22.
   
Made in gb
Imperial Recruit in Training





beast_gts wrote:
Generally it's umbilicals or shuttles / lighters - have a look at the Angels of Death preview from about 5:22.


I can't find a video relating to AoD that has more than 5 minutes in it...

Also the linked video, as far as I can tell, is about 1m 30s.


NVM, I'm a nub

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/31 21:54:33


 
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




United Kingdom

 Hamr wrote:
NVM, I'm a nub
Had it shuffled the playlist or something?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/31 21:56:38


 
   
Made in gb
Imperial Recruit in Training





beast_gts wrote:
 Hamr wrote:
NVM, I'm a nub
Had it shuffled the playlist or something?


No, I just never used a site design like that before. Stopped paying much attention to GW a few years ago, I'm only back now to write some fanfic based on total ignorance of the last few years of lore developments.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Ships on that scale would pull up alongside a station that was servicing them, or possibly in a massive "drydock" like protrusion in the station. Zero gravity means you don't really need to bring a vessel "inside" anywhere in particular. Exterior work would be done with people in EVA suits and/or smaller vessels moving independently.

For general cargo, you'd just fly it over. Every 40k capital vessel will have some sort of hanger bay, even if its not one equipped to launch fighters. You don't really need to dock vessels on this sort of scale. Just get them in geosynchronous orbit next to whatever you want to be close to.

That said, there are many many space stations in 40k lore that are absolutely massive, so it stands to reason that they can in fact dock directly with at least common designs. Blackstone Fortresses make the Deathstar look tiny. Building truly massive installations is part and parcel of Imperial Technology, even if only half understood.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Grey Templar wrote:

That said, there are many many space stations in 40k lore that are absolutely massive, so it stands to reason that they can in fact dock directly with at least common designs. Blackstone Fortresses make the Deathstar look tiny. Building truly massive installations is part and parcel of Imperial Technology, even if only half understood.


To reiterate on this, some of the structures on display in BFGA and BFGA2 on the Imperial side--like Port Maw itself and several orbital manufactorums--are massive enough to be classified as small planetoids themselves. They're enormous on a scale only seen in scifi when people start talking about mega-structures. Another example would be if you played Homeworld and the several times you ended up in derelict missions where struts and armored plates are floating around larger than your mothership (itself large enough to be seen with the naked eye from the surface of a planet)--they're on that scale.

The Phalanx is also a mobile structure that can house at least the smaller imperial line ships within hangars. It would make sense that in similar structures, the 'hangar' would basically be a zero g shed where the ship is braced and umbilical'd instead of being where a ship would 'land' like a shuttle or fighter.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Ramilies star forts are literally towed to conflict zones to act as temporary naval bases for a campaign. From memory they have the capacity to dock up to 4 vessels, one at each quadrant and up to cruiser size vessels at its largest.
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




You're correct.


Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in gb
Imperial Recruit in Training





Jarms48 wrote:
Ramilies star forts are literally towed to conflict zones to act as temporary naval bases for a campaign. From memory they have the capacity to dock up to 4 vessels, one at each quadrant and up to cruiser size vessels at its largest.


Indeed seems to be the case there. Best estimate of size for the Ramilies I've gotten is that it has a diameter of 20km, but it's an uncited imageboard thread
Spoiler:



Only other imperial station or fort I've got is the Phalanx, which is variously described as being "some kilometres" long. Presumably isn't much bigger than a Ramilies.

Which leaves me with a massive gap between Imperial constructs, and the Blackstone Fortresses, which a dakkanought once estimated as being 900mi*900mi (1448km*1448km) at its farthest extents. While this latter thing could actually shove imperial navy ships into hangars, the 40k universe shakes at the thought of just a dozen of the darn things, which implies this is considered super-duper extreme.

Which leads me to wonder why on earth the IOM never bothered to make actual death stars.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




 Hamr wrote:

Which leads me to wonder why on earth the IOM never bothered to make actual death stars.


Could be several reasons.
- They may have lost the technology to actually give propulsion to something the size of a moon or planet.
- They may have lost the capacity to build larger weapons than what can already be found on Battleship class vessels.
- Could be efficiency the weapons on Imperial vessels can already evaporate oceans and level mountains. They also already have world ending weapons. Why do they need anything larger?
- Religious dogma, the Ad-Mech might not have an STC to build something on this scale and outright refuse to do so.

I'm sure there's other reasons as well.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

There are planet killers in 40k, for example Abaddon's aptly named flagship Planet Killer.
It's huge, like twice the size of an Emperor Class battleship.

I also don't think such weapons are particularly useful for the IoM. They're about maintaining an empire, destroying it's planets is counterproductive. From a religious perspective, every planet is seen as the personal property of The Emperor himself. Even if things deteriorate to the point that's better to destroy the planet, better to just raze the surface and come back later to start afresh.
For that lower grade weapons are just as, if not more, effective and they're also more useful for other applications such as void combat or lower order bombardment in support/preparation for ground troops.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/03 07:22:44


 
   
Made in nz
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker



New Zealand

People are replaceable, planets are not. Exterminatus, which just clears the surface, is usually a huge deal.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Hamr wrote:
Which leads me to wonder why on earth the IOM never bothered to make actual death stars.
IIRC Terras moon was converted into a single large weapons platform, and is at least one planet sized orbital ring used by the admech which is capable of independent travel.

From a firepower point of view why build a station the size of a small moon when you can just build a planet killer ship, or a simple torpedo - https://youtu.be/h67JpMyrOVE?t=116
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




United Kingdom

A.T. wrote:
 Hamr wrote:
Which leads me to wonder why on earth the IOM never bothered to make actual death stars.
IIRC Terras moon was converted into a single large weapons platform, and is at least one planet sized orbital ring used by the admech which is capable of independent travel.


The important bits of Forge World Graia (the Graian Crown) can fly (and is warp capable).
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Hamr wrote:

Which leads me to wonder why on earth the IOM never bothered to make actual death stars.


The Imperium does not have a Death Star equivalent weapon capable of actually literally blowing up a planet in a shot like Abaddon's Planet Killer could (which is why it caused such a shock to the Imperials when it did so during the Gothic War). Exterminatus can render a planet uninhabitable but does not blow up the planet. The 13th Black Crusade book from Black Library said that a sustained and very prolonged Nova Cannon bombardment by multiple ships might be able to break up a planet or moon but that is not the single death blow kind of shot the Planet Killer could do.

The Blackstone Fortresses were feared during the Gothic War when Abaddon activated them because they had a warp cannon that could ignore void shields. Then when 2 Blackstones combined their shots they could scour a planet clean. Three Blackstones caused a star to become unstable and explode. The effects of more Blackstones combining their shots is unknown as Abaddon was prevented from getting more of them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/03 12:21:50


 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Hamr wrote:

Which leads me to wonder why on earth the IOM never bothered to make actual death stars.


Because they don't need to. The Imperium already has multiple ways to destroy planets, all of which can be carried out by pretty much any vessel in their navy.

Virus bombs can be dropped by anything into the atmosphere to begin scouring life from a planet. Conventional weaponry cracks any bunkers capable of withstanding the virus. The flammable gasses left by the virus are then ignited, further causing damage to the planet and eradicating the virus.

Then, if you so desire, you can use Cyclonic Torpedoes to actually break the planet apart. Useful if its a Necron Tomb world and eradicating living organisms isn't good enough. As basically all Imperial Navy ships larger than escorts have torpedo tubes they can all assist in this.

The Imperial Navy actually has a similar planet destroying capability to the fleet of ships the Final Order had in Episode IX, where every ship has a death star laser.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Imperial Recruit in Training





 Grey Templar wrote:
 Hamr wrote:

Which leads me to wonder why on earth the IOM never bothered to make actual death stars.


Because they don't need to. The Imperium already has multiple ways to destroy planets, all of which can be carried out by pretty much any vessel in their navy.

Virus bombs can be dropped by anything into the atmosphere to begin scouring life from a planet. Conventional weaponry cracks any bunkers capable of withstanding the virus. The flammable gasses left by the virus are then ignited, further causing damage to the planet and eradicating the virus.

Then, if you so desire, you can use Cyclonic Torpedoes to actually break the planet apart. Useful if its a Necron Tomb world and eradicating living organisms isn't good enough. As basically all Imperial Navy ships larger than escorts have torpedo tubes they can all assist in this.

The Imperial Navy actually has a similar planet destroying capability to the fleet of ships the Final Order had in Episode IX, where every ship has a death star laser.


Yes, but that's not even the main asset of the death star. The point of something that large is to receive and deliver assaults. The bigger a thing is, the more armour it can carry, and the larger its internal volume can be while maintaining unreasonable amounts of armour. Fill a deathstar-like thing with soldiers and hangars for fleets of battleships, and it starts to approach unkillability.

The death star, if it was as populated as it looks like in the movies, would have a population in the low trillions. It would have more armaments than the rebel fleet depicted in Ep.VI by a long way. In the 40k universe, it would become fight mecca for Orks, and would be totally defensible right to the core. So it'd become a black hole meatgrinder.

Sans planet killing, deathstar fortresses should have been a primary strategy for the IOM.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I mean it straight up is tho. Like the whole point of the Death Star was to blow up planets and terrify everyone else into submission.
Why build one huge battlestation when thousands of small ones works better to fight the threats the Imperium faces daily. If that colossal investment of troops, resources and ships just ups and dies in Warp transit, the Imperium has a mucho grande problem.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

The Death Star's main purpose was planet killing though. It was never touted as a mobile army staging point or navel dockyard.

40k ships are already massive and capable of transporting millions of troops to combat zones with ease. Why build 1 Death Star when you could build an equivalent tonnage of normal ships(which are already huge) that can be split up if needed?

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Imperial Recruit in Training





 Gert wrote:
I mean it straight up is tho. Like the whole point of the Death Star was to blow up planets and terrify everyone else into submission.
Why build one huge battlestation when thousands of small ones works better to fight the threats the Imperium faces daily. If that colossal investment of troops, resources and ships just ups and dies in Warp transit, the Imperium has a mucho grande problem.

Yes, the death star was constructed to do that, but if planets are valuable its main asset is its capacity. Lucas not knowing how many people you can put in one doesn't make that fact redundant


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grey Templar wrote:
The Death Star's main purpose was planet killing though. It was never touted as a mobile army staging point or navel dockyard.

40k ships are already massive and capable of transporting millions of troops to combat zones with ease. Why build 1 Death Star when you could build an equivalent tonnage of normal ships(which are already huge) that can be split up if needed?

Difficulty of destruction, concentration of forces, and attraction for orks. You can put a battleship's thickness of armour on something larger than a battleship. If the IOM just wanted swarms, why not only have fleets of <500m long ships?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/03 15:17:02


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Hamr wrote:
Fill a deathstar-like thing with soldiers and hangars for fleets of battleships, and it starts to approach unkillability.
It's just a big sitting duck for exotic weapons like warp missiles, warp core explosions, and god emperor help them if there is a geller field failure in transit.

The deathstar itself would have been pointless if a non moon-sized SW ship could just roll up with a planet killing laser, or fly at it at hyperspeed and punch a hole through it...
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Hamr wrote:

Difficulty of destruction, concentration of forces, and attraction for orks. You can put a battleship's thickness of armour on something larger than a battleship. If the IOM just wanted swarms, why not only have fleets of <500m long ships?


There are always trade-offs.

The physics of moving through space mean that when it comes to combat, bigger is better. You don't want super tiny ships because smaller vessels are forced to devote greater %s of their total mass to things like their engines, fuel, life support, etc... The bigger you are, the more free space you have for other stuff, like more maneuvering thrusters, weapons, cargo, etc...

Larger vessels will actually be faster and more agile in a vacuum than smaller vessels as they will have better power to mass ratios. Because of this, you don't want to be too small.

But you also don't want to be too big. Its less strategically beneficial because you can't divide your forces to cover more area.

This is why even the smallest ships in 40k are hundreds of meters long, and the biggest are many kilometers. But you don't see many Deathstar sized things outside of installations that aren't really meant to move much.

The resources to make a 40k Death Star would be more valuable if spent on normal fleets of battleships, cruisers, and escorts. You can send them to multiple points of contact instead of just one.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






We've seen what happens with death stars in the 40k'verse - absurd amounts of plot armour occur and the World Engine gets blown up by Space Marines who are otherwise too dumb to live...
   
Made in gb
Imperial Recruit in Training





 Lord Damocles wrote:
We've seen what happens with death stars in the 40k'verse - absurd amounts of plot armour occur and the World Engine gets blown up by Space Marines who are otherwise too dumb to live...

Good point.

Now I'm wondering why the IOM doesn't just make the Angry Marine Launcher a standard naval weapon

   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: