Switch Theme:

Stooping Dive  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






So whats the verdict on this with the new faq:

STOOPING DIVE

Adeptus Custodes Stratagem

Guided by their predictive auguries and centuries of combat experience, the Vertus Praetors excel at swooping down to intercept threats the moment they manifest themselves.

Use this Stratagem at the end of your opponent’s Charge phase. Choose an ADEPTUS CUSTODES BIKER unit from your army that is within 12" of an enemy unit. You can declare a charge with that unit as if it were your Charge phase. If the unit’s charge is successful, that unit fights before all other units in the subsequent Fight phase – even before charging units. If your opponent has any units with similar abilities, take it in turns to resolve them, beginning with your opponent.


Obviously if they give you a fights last ability it counters out your fights first from the charge, but does it also negate the fights before all other units (even charging units)?



It either works out to:

A: the whole strat gets countered out and you fight like normal
B. the fights first goes away and the Stooping Unit fights first before all other normal units.
C. the Stooping Unit still fights first even after loosing fights first, because the stratagem says to do so.

JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG 
   
Made in de
[DCM]
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Theory:

They fight first with an added stipulation that it's even before charging units

But this would make the strat massively overpriced imo, especially if you run into a fights last. Then again, you cannot be fought by them anyway since you neither made a charge move nor a heroic intervention as before.

Then again this does not fit into their 3 categories of fight first, fight normally, fight last...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/03 11:29:22


Data author of DA/AdM on Battlescribe
Report bugs here:
https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/issues 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




So, RAW, I think you have to give effect to every clause of the stratagem. Thus, even if made to fight last, the Custodes still 'fight before all other units'.

I do not think that is how GW intends it nor how they would rule it, however. Since it says "If your opponent has any units with similar abilities, take it in turns to resolve them, beginning with your opponent" I believe GW would just view this as another 'fight first' ability (I suspect they're also probably tired of constantly trying to get this sorted out and just want to hand wave it away to simplicity). So end result would be to treat it just the same as any other fight first ability.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

I view this as an enhanced Fight First ability. If hit with a Fight last ability, the two would cancel each other out and the unit would fight as normal.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I thought they become the attacking unit out of turn, and the attacking player decides the order if they cancel out?
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






They do make a charge roll and charge, so opponent who they charged can fight them.

Fights last would cancel their fights first from the charge, but does it also cancel the stipulation that the Stooping Dive unit must fight before even other fight firsters?

JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




 Eihnlazer wrote:
They do make a charge roll and charge, so opponent who they charged can fight them.


So this is not true if the target of the Stooping Dive charge ALSO charged. It's a hiccup in the rules of the fight phase where it says a charging unit can only fight the target of its charge and any heroic interventions. Since the Stooping Dive unit wasn't a target and didn't heroically intervene, they can't be attacked back by that unit.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




As above - a non charging unit can fight the custodes just fine, but a charging unit can't.

I can't see how it can cancel out fights first but still have the other. I see that as a condition of "fights first" and now they don't have fights first, the rest of the strat has gone
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

It needs a FAQ, GW obviously forgot about this stratagem.
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




 p5freak wrote:
It needs a FAQ, GW obviously forgot about this stratagem.


I think since it's not a 9th Edition book their attitude will be to ignore it until a codex is released.
   
Made in ro
Stalwart Tribune




Bath

Audustum wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
It needs a FAQ, GW obviously forgot about this stratagem.


I think since it's not a 9th Edition book their attitude will be to ignore it until a codex is released.


maybe, but unless thats in the offing soon (which i dont believe), their are going to be a multiple on the spot calls on this matter in tourneys, as they are a popular unit in a reasonably popular faction.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 500pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Honestly, can you name any lists from any major tournaments in this edition that used bikes? Because I haven't seen any, and I've been advocating about them getting some form of buff for awhile. I am betting this is BAW, Broken as Intended. Bikes are not a major threat in the Meta right now, to anyone but IG and Tau. Neither of which want to get into combat with Custodes. Everyone else seems to be better in combat against custodes. Orks, DE, and DG can all wreck bike squads, for a fraction of the cost.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: