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From CA2021:

If your army includes one or more Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachments you can change the Command Benefits of one of them to +2 Command Points if the unit in this detachment is not your WARLORD, but is from the same Faction as your WARLORD's detachment, and the faction is not CHAOS, IMPERIUM, AELDARI, YNNARI, or TYRANIDS.

The reason your LoW can't be CHAOS, IMPERIUM, AELDARI, YNNARI, or TYRANIDS is to prevent doing things like bringing Knights with loyalists or Imperial Guard, or Wraithknights with Dark Eldar. So a CSM army needs to bring a HERETIC ASTARTES LoW, for example. That's why Orks, tau and Necrons aren't mentioned, as they don't share a Super Faction with anyone, so it isn't an issue as they can only use their own LoWs.

So, does this make LoWs viable?

That's a nice change.

It probably won't help me, because my only super-heavy is a GSC-themed Baneblade and wording on this is too specific to make room for the unique 1:1 GSC-AM detachment interactions.

I'm no authority on competitive viability but this certainly looks like a good idea to me – 3CP on top of the fairly significant points cost of LoW always seemed a little steep.

Seems strange they'd limit this to CA rather than including it in yesterday's FAQ…

Well if this is true I'm certainly more interested in bringing a Baneblade or two.

Nazrak wrote:I'm no authority on competitive viability but this certainly looks like a good idea to me – 3CP on top of the fairly significant points cost of LoW always seemed a little steep.

Seems strange they'd limit this to CA rather than including it in yesterday's FAQ…

My thoughts as well. They gotta get that $40 from us somehow I guess.

Valkyrie wrote:Well if this is true I'm certainly more interested in bringing a Baneblade or two.

Photo evidence in the CA N&R thread.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Nazrak wrote:I'm no authority on competitive viability but this certainly looks like a good idea to me – 3CP on top of the fairly significant points cost of LoW always seemed a little steep.

Seems strange they'd limit this to CA rather than including it in yesterday's FAQ…

My thoughts as well. They gotta get that $40 from us somehow I guess.

I'm not a tournament guy but they'll get a lot more than $40 from me if it filters down into the main rules *eyes up Monolith, Baneblade and Killbursta*

Said image;

 AduroT wrote:
Said image;

Spoiler:

so, does this only apply if your using the GT 2021 mission pack? or does this change also overwrite the detachment rules in the main rulebook?

xerxeskingofking wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Said image;

Spoiler:

so, does this only apply if your using the GT 2021 mission pack? or does this change also overwrite the detachment rules in the main rulebook?

Unless they put in errata just GT2021 pack.

Then again GT2020 became pretty much de facto pick up game pack as well in many places. In no small part due to it a) being convenient standard if you don't want to start hashing out terms in ahead(if you don't mind importing this rule to pick up games isn't issue) b) book is small, light, easy to carry. Especially compared to the big brick

Really I expect this rule to become de facto standard everywhere. Just like tournament rules applying outside in practice even if not in theory(who DIDN'T play with rule of 3 in 8e? That was strictly speaking tournament only rule...) so will this if players as a whole prefer this. And those who don't want have to live with it or not get games.

I am really glad to see this change. AM will be able to use this pretty well, and a lot of LoW options could potentially become viable.

GW did a pretty decent job on this CA in my opinion. They did a lot of positive changes in the secondaries, the points changes were largely pretty solid, and the recent FAQ really hit the nail on the head in my view.

Good work GW.

Now GW just has to make LoW for all factions.

Speak to me as if I were a child:

How does this rule make things cheaper for Imperium, Chaos, 'Nids and Eldar?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Speak to me as if I were a child:

How does this rule make things cheaper for Imperium, Chaos, 'Nids and Eldar?

It means that if your warlord is say, Astra Militarum, it costs 1cp to bring in a Baneblade instead of 3.

For some factions with "small" (IE: non-titan sized") LoW choices it means they're not auto-excluded on CP cost. For others with only super-big chonkers it's not a solution, but that's not something that was going to be solved by detachment CP costs.

For my Craftworld army, I'm still on the fence regarding the Wraithknight. It still cannot benefit from Craftworld traits, which is still a significant penalty. The cheapest Wraithknight is 360 points. I can now take 10 Wraithblades with Axe and Shield for 370. I use them a lot and Hunters of Ancient Relics and Wrath of the Dead are very significant added capabilities.

Sterling191 wrote:
It means that if your warlord is say, Astra Militarum, it costs 1cp to bring in a Baneblade instead of 3.

For some factions with "small" (IE: non-titan sized") LoW choices it means they're not auto-excluded on CP cost. For others with only super-big chonkers it's not a solution, but that's not something that was going to be solved by detachment CP costs.

But would your army not be Imperium?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

But would your army not be Imperium?

No, because your Warlord is Astra Militarum. It keys off the specific faction keyword as defined by your Warlord, not the macro faction keyword as defined by your army to be Battle Brothers legal.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
It means that if your warlord is say, Astra Militarum, it costs 1cp to bring in a Baneblade instead of 3.

For some factions with "small" (IE: non-titan sized") LoW choices it means they're not auto-excluded on CP cost. For others with only super-big chonkers it's not a solution, but that's not something that was going to be solved by detachment CP costs.

But would your army not be Imperium?

You know how when you put stuff in a Detachment everything has to have the same Faction keyword, but Imperium doesn’t count? It’s the same thing.

Then why have Imperium? Just for soup?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Then why have Imperium? Just for soup?

Because it's literally saying you can't use that Keyword to claim this benefit. You can't have an AdMech warlord and drop in a Knight for 1CP. Or a Marine Warlord and drop in a Baneblade. Or a Sisters Warlord and drop in a Spartan.

Ooohhh this is good. I need to finish my KO and CoS stuff quick so I can start on my Astraeus!

Sterling191 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Then why have Imperium? Just for soup?

Because it's literally saying you can't use that Keyword to claim this benefit. You can't have an AdMech warlord and drop in a Knight for 1CP . Or a Marine Warlord and drop in a Baneblade. Or a Sisters Warlord and drop in a Spartan.

Sorry to be a pedant, but you can do the highlighted one though, due to Knight of the Cog, right?

Very excited by this change – looks like a lot of things I ruled out on the basis of rules faff are back on the menu (although sadly not my planned Nurgle Armiger).

 Nazrak wrote:

Sorry to be a pedant, but you can do the highlighted one though, due to Knight of the Cog, right?

Nope. Knight of the Cog just allows you to not break Canticles or Doctrinas if you take a Quaestor Mechanicus aux detachment. It doesn't impart the Adeptus Mechanicus keyword.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
It means that if your warlord is say, Astra Militarum, it costs 1cp to bring in a Baneblade instead of 3.

For some factions with "small" (IE: non-titan sized") LoW choices it means they're not auto-excluded on CP cost. For others with only super-big chonkers it's not a solution, but that's not something that was going to be solved by detachment CP costs.

But would your army not be Imperium?

You would share a Faction Keyword OTHER THAN IMPERIUM with your LOW.

Harlequins battalion + SHA detachment with a Wraithknight = we share the AELDARI keyword, so rule would not apply, costs 3cp.

Craftworld Battalion+SHA Detachment with a Wraithknight = we share the ASURYANI keyword, so rule would apply, costs 1cp.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nazrak wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Then why have Imperium? Just for soup?

Because it's literally saying you can't use that Keyword to claim this benefit. You can't have an AdMech warlord and drop in a Knight for 1CP . Or a Marine Warlord and drop in a Baneblade. Or a Sisters Warlord and drop in a Spartan.

Sorry to be a pedant, but you can do the highlighted one though, due to Knight of the Cog, right?

Very excited by this change – looks like a lot of things I ruled out on the basis of rules faff are back on the menu (although sadly not my planned Nurgle Armiger).

You CAN, but only SPECIFICALLY with forgeworld metalica and knight house raven thanks to the super special snowflake stratagem from the best book ever book of rust, Knight of the IRON Cog, not to be confused with the RULE knight of the cog which doesn't impart the admech keyword

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Then why have Imperium? Just for soup?

Yep; detachments from different Imperial factions are allowed to fight together without any of those detachments losing their detachment wide purity buffs. Obviously though, none of them wide get the Army Purity buff.

This change is a great step in the right direction, but more needs to be done. I do think this change foreshadows work to come- this is a rule that obviously want on the table before releasing LoW heavy dexes or new LoW models, because this rule makes these things easier to use and therefore more likely to sell.

It's in a CA Mission Pack rather than the BRB as a sort of beta test. If it warps the tourney meta in a bad way via unintended consequence, they won't have to walk back a change to the BRB, they can just avoid bringing it to the BRB and then not reprint in the 2022 CA Mission Pack. If, on the other hand, it bumps LoW sales without warping the meta negatively, adding it to the BRB could happen in the Q3 round of FAQ's.

 the_scotsman wrote:

You CAN, but only SPECIFICALLY with forgeworld metalica and knight house raven thanks to the super special snowflake stratagem from the best book ever book of rust, Knight of the IRON Cog, not to be confused with the RULE knight of the cog which doesn't impart the admech keyword

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

I genuinely keep forgetting that that exists. Doesn't it cost a CP per unit for the strat though?

Sterling191 wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

You CAN, but only SPECIFICALLY with forgeworld metalica and knight house raven thanks to the super special snowflake stratagem from the best book ever book of rust, Knight of the IRON Cog, not to be confused with the RULE knight of the cog which doesn't impart the admech keyword

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

I genuinely keep forgetting that that exists. Doesn't it cost a CP per unit for the strat though?

Yep.

Only saves you 1cp at the end of the day, but it does get your knight the extremely powerful Canticles of the Omnissiah.

"So ya say my Thundercoil Harpoon knight gets to reroll 1 hit roll, 1 wound roll, and 1 damage roll? THANKS OMNISSIBAMA!"

Sterling191 wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

Sorry to be a pedant, but you can do the highlighted one though, due to Knight of the Cog, right?

Nope. Knight of the Cog just allows you to not break Canticles or Doctrinas if you take a Quaestor Mechanicus aux detachment. It doesn't impart the Adeptus Mechanicus keyword.

Ahaaaa, I see. Cheers.

 the_scotsman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
It means that if your warlord is say, Astra Militarum, it costs 1cp to bring in a Baneblade instead of 3.

For some factions with "small" (IE: non-titan sized") LoW choices it means they're not auto-excluded on CP cost. For others with only super-big chonkers it's not a solution, but that's not something that was going to be solved by detachment CP costs.

But would your army not be Imperium?

You would share a Faction Keyword OTHER THAN IMPERIUM with your LOW.

Harlequins battalion + SHA detachment with a Wraithknight = we share the AELDARI keyword, so rule would not apply, costs 3cp.

Craftworld Battalion+SHA Detachment with a Wraithknight = we share the ASURYANI keyword, so rule would apply, costs 1cp..

You could also have a Harlequin battalion, a Craftworlds patrol and a Wraithknight SHAD and if the Warlord was in the Craftworlds patrol then the SHAD would still be 1CP as the rule keys off sharing a keyword with the Warlord’s detachment rather than the army’s overall keyword.

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
It means that if your warlord is say, Astra Militarum, it costs 1cp to bring in a Baneblade instead of 3.

For some factions with "small" (IE: non-titan sized") LoW choices it means they're not auto-excluded on CP cost. For others with only super-big chonkers it's not a solution, but that's not something that was going to be solved by detachment CP costs.

But would your army not be Imperium?

You would share a Faction Keyword OTHER THAN IMPERIUM with your LOW.

Harlequins battalion + SHA detachment with a Wraithknight = we share the AELDARI keyword, so rule would not apply, costs 3cp.

Craftworld Battalion+SHA Detachment with a Wraithknight = we share the ASURYANI keyword, so rule would apply, costs 1cp..

You could also have a Harlequin battalion, a Craftworlds patrol and a Wraithknight SHAD and if the Warlord was in the Craftworlds patrol then the SHAD would still be 1CP as the rule keys off sharing a keyword with the Warlord’s detachment rather than the army’s overall keyword.

But you'd lose your faction purity bonuses then. Admittedly, that isn't an issue for anyone without a 9th edition codex yet, but it will be, eventually.

This might be a weird question, but what if your Superheavy IS your warlord? I'm not totally sure who qualifies, but at least Guilliman and Mortarion should. If I put one of them into a SHAD and make them Warlord (which I must with both anyway) does it only cost 1 CP? Since Warlord and superheavy obviously share keywords?