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Made in us
Dakka Veteran






I've found a seller online who appears to be regularly selling massive lots of old metal IG models regularly at frankly incredible prices, though still expensive for a single purchase.

At first I thought they were selling off an old collection that they either no longer wanted or had come into somehow, but as time goes on and they keep listing more, I got suspicious.

Then, today I took a closer look at some of the rather poor quailty pictures and realized that some of these armies include what appear to be multiple copies of models listed as Unreleased on the Citadel collectors guide. For instance, one of the better pictures shows no less than seven models that all appear to be Valhallan Plasma Guns. Another picture seems to show three Tallarn Snipers lying at the back, but you have to super zoom in so they could be the lasgun model in the same stance.

All this makes me wonder. Even beyond the fact that these are almost certainly recasts given the sheer amount, how many copies of the real unreleased models even exist for the recasters to have gotten their hands on an original?

Also, were they ever released as a limited time Made-to-Order type deal? I know GW went through the old metal IG lines with that a few years back. If so, then I suppose it is possible that these are real, even if highly unlikely.

(Edit: Just to be clear for the mods, I am in no way trying to support, encourage, or otherwise spread recasting, etc. I am merely using this experience of discovering a likely recaster or recast seller as the premise to my thoughts and questions about the unreleased models. Also, other than the suspicious quantity of old models being repeatedly listed, I have no proof one way or another that the items being sold are actually recasts. If anyone knows a good way to identify metal recasts, that would be helpful since I did purchase a single squad before realizing it was all the same seller.)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/11 19:33:29


 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

Back when the wall of metal fell over they would sell scoops of metal(minis, bits, etc) so some could've escaped that way but.....

Be very wary of anyone selling "unreleased" anything.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






If they were marketing lots of "Unreleased" minis, I would have been suspicious from the start. Thing is, they're just mixed in with no fanfare, as if the seller doesn't realize they're supposed to be rare.

It'll just say something like "Valhallan Infantry Army OOP", but there's 7 models that appear to be the unreleased Plasma Gun mixed in. And the photos aren't great so I'm not 100% on it. Always a large group pic from an almost top down view with mediocre resolution.

Edit: Side note is that they all look factory fresh as well. Bare white metal, as if they were cracked open yesterday. Not exactly suspicious by itself as I personally have a number of old metals in pristine condition, but several thousand that all look brand new?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/05 06:01:27


 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

It could be that this person owns the molds to these unreleased models and is making castings of them.

This *might* not be an illegal situation if the person does own the original molds (either GW never acquired the green/molds from freelance work or simply gave the person the molds for some reason) and there wasn't an agreement with GW to prevent using them for commercial purposes.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






While technically possible, I find that the least likely option of all. Beyond that they are selling what seems to be the whole line of old metal IG except Cadians, I find it incredibly unlikely that GW wouldn't own any of their artists works, from original sculpt to end mold. They probably have a clause like Disney where they own all the artwork related to their IP produced during their artists period of employment, and a clause preventing any of their artists from making new related art after leaving.
   
Made in gb
Malicious Mandrake




If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, quacks like a duck....

and on the other point, I know of no definitive way to identify an original, as has been posted in various places before.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Damn. Well, I'll just have to check the models for obvious defects or second mold lines and hope for the best despite evidence pointing to the contrary. I'd put some pics up of the models I'm talking about, both the ones I ordered and zoomed and cropped lot pictures focusing on the seeming unreleased models mixed in, but given that they are likely recasts, I'm not sure how mods would treat that. I know site rules strongly forbid supporting recasts both in text and pictures, but how does that apply to likely recasts in trying to ascertain what a model is and if it is or isn't a recast?
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






They arrived today. Oddly enough, there were two almost identical packages with almost identical squads inside. Pretty sure I only ordered one though.

On the other hand, they all appear to have the second mold line like I feared they would. I'll have to dig out my other Mordian models to make sure what I'm seeing isn't normal, but it looks like there's two mold lines to my eye.

Even stranger than the extra slightly different squad, the two have some other obvious differences. One is bright and shiny clean, separated in little bags of 3 models, 3 models, 4 models, and 10 GW bases. The other was all shoved into one larger bag, already glued to third party bases with an extra base included for some reason, and covered in a slightly sticky white gunk. Feels a bit like white clay actually. The bases also look oily/greasy. No idea what that's about since it's mostly in recesses over bare metal. My first thought was that they accidentally sent me the originals as well, but that squad has less variant models and also seem to have the same second mold line.

To the mods: If I put up pictures of these models in this thread for the express purpose of confirming whether or not they are recasts or just late production models (possibly from one of the Made-to-Order box sets), would that be against Dakka rules? I know we can't promote or show off recasts (as it sort of promotes them in a way), but this is more for personal academic sake. Might also help others identify recasts so as not to get scammed by online sellers looking to pass them off as originals.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/11 19:35:10


 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Stormonu wrote:
It could be that this person owns the molds to these unreleased models and is making castings of them.

This *might* not be an illegal situation if the person does own the original molds (either GW never acquired the green/molds from freelance work or simply gave the person the molds for some reason) and there wasn't an agreement with GW to prevent using them for commercial purposes.

Considering the drama that surrounded Fitzpatrick's Mengil's Manflayers? Doubtful!
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Kanluwen wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:
It could be that this person owns the molds to these unreleased models and is making castings of them.

This *might* not be an illegal situation if the person does own the original molds (either GW never acquired the green/molds from freelance work or simply gave the person the molds for some reason) and there wasn't an agreement with GW to prevent using them for commercial purposes.

Considering the drama that surrounded Fitzpatrick's Mengil's Manflayers? Doubtful!


I haven't heard this story before. Do tell or link to where I can read about it.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 SergentSilver wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:
It could be that this person owns the molds to these unreleased models and is making castings of them.

This *might* not be an illegal situation if the person does own the original molds (either GW never acquired the green/molds from freelance work or simply gave the person the molds for some reason) and there wasn't an agreement with GW to prevent using them for commercial purposes.

Considering the drama that surrounded Fitzpatrick's Mengil's Manflayers? Doubtful!


I haven't heard this story before. Do tell or link to where I can read about it.

The basic gist, since I can't find the exact details at the moment, was that Chris Fitzpatrick sculpted a completely new range of Mengil Manhide's Manflayer models at roughly the same time as the rest of the Dark Elves before he left GW, but GW sat on the models.as he did not do them under the terms of his work agreements. It took years to get things settled in a manner that wouldn't just screw him over and make GW look bad at the same time and then they got released with Storm of Chaos.

Purportedly it led to the new, effectively "in-house designers" contracts that GW has but it was such a weird and out of the ordinary thing that it kept some gorgeous models from getting released for quite some time. No way in heck that those unreleased Guard models had their master molds go missing and GW doesn't catch it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/11 20:04:17


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Kanluwen wrote:
 SergentSilver wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:
It could be that this person owns the molds to these unreleased models and is making castings of them.

This *might* not be an illegal situation if the person does own the original molds (either GW never acquired the green/molds from freelance work or simply gave the person the molds for some reason) and there wasn't an agreement with GW to prevent using them for commercial purposes.

Considering the drama that surrounded Fitzpatrick's Mengil's Manflayers? Doubtful!


I haven't heard this story before. Do tell or link to where I can read about it.

The basic gist, since I can't find the exact details at the moment, was that Chris Fitzpatrick sculpted a completely new range of Mengil Manhide's Manflayer models at roughly the same time as the rest of the Dark Elves before he left GW, but GW sat on the models.as he did not do them under the terms of his work agreements. It took years to get things settled in a manner that wouldn't just screw him over and make GW look bad at the same time and then they got released with Storm of Chaos.

Purportedly it led to the new, effectively "in-house designers" contracts that GW has but it was such a weird and out of the ordinary thing that it kept some gorgeous models from getting released for quite some time. No way in heck that those unreleased Guard models had their master molds go missing and GW doesn't catch it.


Thanks, I'd never heard about that. As for GW letting go of the master mold or even the original sculpts, I have a hard time believing they don't exist in some vault if they haven't been destroyed after their useful life.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 SergentSilver wrote:
I've found a seller online who appears to be regularly selling massive lots of old metal IG models regularly at frankly incredible prices, though still expensive for a single purchase.

At first I thought they were selling off an old collection that they either no longer wanted or had come into somehow, but as time goes on and they keep listing more, I got suspicious.

Then, today I took a closer look at some of the rather poor quailty pictures and realized that some of these armies include what appear to be multiple copies of models listed as Unreleased on the Citadel collectors guide. For instance, one of the better pictures shows no less than seven models that all appear to be Valhallan Plasma Guns. Another picture seems to show three Tallarn Snipers lying at the back, but you have to super zoom in so they could be the lasgun model in the same stance.

All this makes me wonder. Even beyond the fact that these are almost certainly recasts given the sheer amount, how many copies of the real unreleased models even exist for the recasters to have gotten their hands on an original?

Also, were they ever released as a limited time Made-to-Order type deal? I know GW went through the old metal IG lines with that a few years back. If so, then I suppose it is possible that these are real, even if highly unlikely.

(Edit: Just to be clear for the mods, I am in no way trying to support, encourage, or otherwise spread recasting, etc. I am merely using this experience of discovering a likely recaster or recast seller as the premise to my thoughts and questions about the unreleased models. Also, other than the suspicious quantity of old models being repeatedly listed, I have no proof one way or another that the items being sold are actually recasts. If anyone knows a good way to identify metal recasts, that would be helpful since I did purchase a single squad before realizing it was all the same seller.)


Ok, rad, get you some.

A lot of old pieces of rogue trader era models and 2nd ed metals are awesome pieces of retro art, nearly all sculpted by people who no longer work for games workshop, and are no longer sold by games workshop. Are you going to harm....ebay collectors by purchasing a recast rather than an original?

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 the_scotsman wrote:
 SergentSilver wrote:
I've found a seller online who appears to be regularly selling massive lots of old metal IG models regularly at frankly incredible prices, though still expensive for a single purchase.

At first I thought they were selling off an old collection that they either no longer wanted or had come into somehow, but as time goes on and they keep listing more, I got suspicious.

Then, today I took a closer look at some of the rather poor quailty pictures and realized that some of these armies include what appear to be multiple copies of models listed as Unreleased on the Citadel collectors guide. For instance, one of the better pictures shows no less than seven models that all appear to be Valhallan Plasma Guns. Another picture seems to show three Tallarn Snipers lying at the back, but you have to super zoom in so they could be the lasgun model in the same stance.

All this makes me wonder. Even beyond the fact that these are almost certainly recasts given the sheer amount, how many copies of the real unreleased models even exist for the recasters to have gotten their hands on an original?

Also, were they ever released as a limited time Made-to-Order type deal? I know GW went through the old metal IG lines with that a few years back. If so, then I suppose it is possible that these are real, even if highly unlikely.

(Edit: Just to be clear for the mods, I am in no way trying to support, encourage, or otherwise spread recasting, etc. I am merely using this experience of discovering a likely recaster or recast seller as the premise to my thoughts and questions about the unreleased models. Also, other than the suspicious quantity of old models being repeatedly listed, I have no proof one way or another that the items being sold are actually recasts. If anyone knows a good way to identify metal recasts, that would be helpful since I did purchase a single squad before realizing it was all the same seller.)


Ok, rad, get you some.

A lot of old pieces of rogue trader era models and 2nd ed metals are awesome pieces of retro art, nearly all sculpted by people who no longer work for games workshop, and are no longer sold by games workshop. Are you going to harm....ebay collectors by purchasing a recast rather than an original?


In this case it's not really whether or not I'm harming GW, and I am not giving any input on how I feel about recasting OOP models or in general. The main points of what you are responding to is about the availability of older models and unreleased models in particular. This thread also has some discussion on identifying recasts vs originals. Again, I express neither support nor condemnation of recasts both of OOP models and current ones. What I will freely give you is that I firmly condemn trying to pass off illegal recasts as originals whether it is done by lying that it is an original or simple omission of the fact of being recast when describing the item.

Would you be willing to pay eBay scalper prices for a recast of a fairly common model just because it is OOP and now hard to find? Would you feel ok with receiving a recast of a rare model after paying eBay prices for what you had thought to be an original, especially if the seller simply relisted the same item after you bought it at an inflated value because they were making a bunch of them?

Once more, I am not getting into the argument for or against recasting in general here. This has turned more into how to identify recasts when you think you might be encountering them. Hopefully before you pay a steep price for what you are either being told or allowed to think to be an original.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Post the pics so we can see. Even a few detailed shots of the possible double mould lines.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

 SergentSilver wrote:
They arrived today. Oddly enough, there were two almost identical packages with almost identical squads inside. Pretty sure I only ordered one though.

On the other hand, they all appear to have the second mold line like I feared they would. I'll have to dig out my other Mordian models to make sure what I'm seeing isn't normal, but it looks like there's two mold lines to my eye.

Even stranger than the extra slightly different squad, the two have some other obvious differences. One is bright and shiny clean, separated in little bags of 3 models, 3 models, 4 models, and 10 GW bases. The other was all shoved into one larger bag, already glued to third party bases with an extra base included for some reason, and covered in a slightly sticky white gunk. Feels a bit like white clay actually. The bases also look oily/greasy. No idea what that's about since it's mostly in recesses over bare metal. My first thought was that they accidentally sent me the originals as well, but that squad has less variant models and also seem to have the same second mold line.


Ah, nothing like shiny new recasts complete with mould release agent &/or bits of the silicon mould itself in the crevices ....

In case it's not clear, you've got recasts.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Here's a few pics. I tried to get the best shots I could, but my phone isn't the worlds greatest camera for miniature pics.


Note the odd branch coming off the mold line.


Note the obvious 1mm thick indent over the hat that appears to be two mold lines to me.


Note the excessive flashing on the hat, gun, and arm. I didn't find out this was flashing until I was cleaning them after taking the pics, so the flashing on the gun and arm can only just be seen on the left side of the model.


Note the white stuff on every non-contact point surface and unnaturally shiny bases.

Unfortunately, I'm not at all an expert at this and these could just be late production problems from failing molds for all I know, with the exception of the white stuff and greasy coating. When asked about the white stuff and greasy coating, the seller said that they put them in a vinegar solution and/or cleaning fluid bath in an ultrasonic cleaner and forgot to wash it off before packing them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/13 21:43:01


 
   
Made in es
Swift Swooping Hawk





That white stuff it's quite similar to the old white primer people used back in the day, i have my fair share of old stripped of paint minis and that's quite common.

About the double line not an expert on Guard minis but yes that double line/dent on the hat seems weird.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 SergentSilver wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
 SergentSilver wrote:
I've found a seller online who appears to be regularly selling massive lots of old metal IG models regularly at frankly incredible prices, though still expensive for a single purchase.

At first I thought they were selling off an old collection that they either no longer wanted or had come into somehow, but as time goes on and they keep listing more, I got suspicious.

Then, today I took a closer look at some of the rather poor quailty pictures and realized that some of these armies include what appear to be multiple copies of models listed as Unreleased on the Citadel collectors guide. For instance, one of the better pictures shows no less than seven models that all appear to be Valhallan Plasma Guns. Another picture seems to show three Tallarn Snipers lying at the back, but you have to super zoom in so they could be the lasgun model in the same stance.

All this makes me wonder. Even beyond the fact that these are almost certainly recasts given the sheer amount, how many copies of the real unreleased models even exist for the recasters to have gotten their hands on an original?

Also, were they ever released as a limited time Made-to-Order type deal? I know GW went through the old metal IG lines with that a few years back. If so, then I suppose it is possible that these are real, even if highly unlikely.

(Edit: Just to be clear for the mods, I am in no way trying to support, encourage, or otherwise spread recasting, etc. I am merely using this experience of discovering a likely recaster or recast seller as the premise to my thoughts and questions about the unreleased models. Also, other than the suspicious quantity of old models being repeatedly listed, I have no proof one way or another that the items being sold are actually recasts. If anyone knows a good way to identify metal recasts, that would be helpful since I did purchase a single squad before realizing it was all the same seller.)


Ok, rad, get you some.

A lot of old pieces of rogue trader era models and 2nd ed metals are awesome pieces of retro art, nearly all sculpted by people who no longer work for games workshop, and are no longer sold by games workshop. Are you going to harm....ebay collectors by purchasing a recast rather than an original?


In this case it's not really whether or not I'm harming GW, and I am not giving any input on how I feel about recasting OOP models or in general. The main points of what you are responding to is about the availability of older models and unreleased models in particular. This thread also has some discussion on identifying recasts vs originals. Again, I express neither support nor condemnation of recasts both of OOP models and current ones. What I will freely give you is that I firmly condemn trying to pass off illegal recasts as originals whether it is done by lying that it is an original or simple omission of the fact of being recast when describing the item.

Would you be willing to pay eBay scalper prices for a recast of a fairly common model just because it is OOP and now hard to find? Would you feel ok with receiving a recast of a rare model after paying eBay prices for what you had thought to be an original, especially if the seller simply relisted the same item after you bought it at an inflated value because they were making a bunch of them?

Once more, I am not getting into the argument for or against recasting in general here. This has turned more into how to identify recasts when you think you might be encountering them. Hopefully before you pay a steep price for what you are either being told or allowed to think to be an original.


You mention ebay prices here but your op mentioned "frankly incredible prices."

I'd be fine with paying "frankly incredible prices" and receiving a recast, yes.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

Double mouldline hints that it's a recast. However I personally wouldn't care; models look pretty decent and if you got a good deal, why does it matter?
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

 Kanluwen wrote:
No way in heck that those unreleased Guard models had their master molds go missing and GW doesn't catch it.

One of the rumours regarding GW closing down their US casting side is that the staff couldn't be trusted to keep things under lock & key - they were casting up massive batches of stuff for themselves on the side, including limited and not-yet-released stuff.
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






that hat says yes recast, but personally that wouldn't bother me even if GW were still making the models. I would put that as an issue between GW and the seller so long as the recast looks good and the price is good its none of my business. you are lucky on them looking pretty good though, i had a friend buy some models on ebay like a valkrie, picture showed a used and assembled but unpainted valkrie what showed up was an ok quality but obviously fdm 3d printed valkarie with very evident layer lines.

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




beast_gts wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
No way in heck that those unreleased Guard models had their master molds go missing and GW doesn't catch it.

One of the rumours regarding GW closing down their US casting side is that the staff couldn't be trusted to keep things under lock & key - they were casting up massive batches of stuff for themselves on the side, including limited and not-yet-released stuff.


This I think is a plausible issue, it has happened often enough and would only take a manager or two and some employees that don’t get payed enough to care and you could skim off a lot on just saying there was a bad cast every ten or so.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 the_scotsman wrote:


You mention ebay prices here but your op mentioned "frankly incredible prices."

I'd be fine with paying "frankly incredible prices" and receiving a recast, yes.


And? I never said anything about regretting the purchase or feeling cheated. It was a great price for originals compared to the current eBay standard of $10+ per model +shipping on top, and likely a fair price for recasts. Not sure how many actually sell at that price since I won't pay that, but that's generally what I see being asked for individual models. A whole squad is rare, but usually cheaper per model. My only disappointment is that I had initially purchased thinking they were originals and later discovered they are probably recasts. Would I purchase a similar set again? Maybe. The price was right, and honestly I'm not 100% that they are recasts. If GW released the models again for the same retail price as Steel Legion, I would definitely be buying 100% official models.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

Authentic pewter minis having double mold lines isn't uncommon.

The original sculpt is cast to make a production master as needed, and then that master is cast to make a production mold. Depending on how much cleanup is done on the master before making a mold from it, you can end up with two mold lines on a legitimate model.

Not saying whether these models are genuine or recast, just, a double mold line isn't a smoking gun like a lot of people assume.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 15:59:15


   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 catbarf wrote:
Authentic pewter minis having double mold lines isn't uncommon.

The original sculpt is cast to make a production master as needed, and then that master is cast to make a production mold. Depending on how much cleanup is done on the master before making a mold from it, you can end up with two mold lines on a legitimate model.

Not saying whether these models are genuine or recast, just, a double mold line isn't a smoking gun like a lot of people assume.


Thank you! Definitely one of the most helpful comments yet, even if it makes it harder to tell the difference. Not knowing this kind of information is exactly why I continue to say I can't tell between official and recast.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

 SergentSilver wrote:
 catbarf wrote:
Authentic pewter minis having double mold lines isn't uncommon.

The original sculpt is cast to make a production master as needed, and then that master is cast to make a production mold. Depending on how much cleanup is done on the master before making a mold from it, you can end up with two mold lines on a legitimate model.

Not saying whether these models are genuine or recast, just, a double mold line isn't a smoking gun like a lot of people assume.


Thank you! Definitely one of the most helpful comments yet, even if it makes it harder to tell the difference. Not knowing this kind of information is exactly why I continue to say I can't tell between official and recast.


Well, in the case of the models you've got, the traces of silicon (the gummy stuff) in the crevices & presence of mold release agent (the oily stuff) should be the clues you need.

Other than that? Be on the lookout for shallower/blurred detail & suspiciously clean bright metal. Metal models oxidize & tarnish. So if it looks so clean you'd swear it was cast yesterday? It probably was.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Stormonu wrote:
It could be that this person owns the molds to these unreleased models and is making castings of them.

This *might* not be an illegal situation if the person does own the original molds (either GW never acquired the green/molds from freelance work or simply gave the person the molds for some reason) and there wasn't an agreement with GW to prevent using them for commercial purposes.


This is as unlikely as me winning the lottery. Correction, I have better odds of winning the lottery. GW is not known to use Freelancers, with the exception of Black Library where is quite standard across the industry. However, I do have an extensive collection of metal IG models, And I do remember snipers and plasma guys. So more likely, somebody like me who has an extensive collection and is doing recasts.

GW could solve that problem if they wanted to, but hey, it's their business and not mine. Myself, if I want any more minis, unlikely, it is extensive, and I do not play in their tourneys or pond any longer, they could get new casts for those old models. Or simply redo those regiments in modern techniques, where it is even less likely you will have greenies floating around.

There is demand, see Victoria Minis and their success.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
ccs wrote:
 SergentSilver wrote:
 catbarf wrote:
Authentic pewter minis having double mold lines isn't uncommon.

The original sculpt is cast to make a production master as needed, and then that master is cast to make a production mold. Depending on how much cleanup is done on the master before making a mold from it, you can end up with two mold lines on a legitimate model.

Not saying whether these models are genuine or recast, just, a double mold line isn't a smoking gun like a lot of people assume.


Thank you! Definitely one of the most helpful comments yet, even if it makes it harder to tell the difference. Not knowing this kind of information is exactly why I continue to say I can't tell between official and recast.


Well, in the case of the models you've got, the traces of silicon (the gummy stuff) in the crevices & presence of mold release agent (the oily stuff) should be the clues you need.

Other than that? Be on the lookout for shallower/blurred detail & suspiciously clean bright metal. Metal models oxidize & tarnish. So if it looks so clean you'd swear it was cast yesterday? It probably was.


Gee, I just took out a heavy weapons team from the blister that has been sitting in the blister since the late 1990s. There is absolutely no tarnish on them. Like none, nada...nope at all, because of the metal used. We were so happy to find this in the pile of shame since I need some heavy weapons teams for my HDF...we moved on from 40K. And we were thinking, we have them...where the hell are they? FOUND THEM! are you saying that I got poor recasts then? I should take this up with GW then Now where is the damn 50 mm base I need? Oh yes, in the mail. Sorry.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 SergentSilver wrote:
Here's a few pics. I tried to get the best shots I could, but my phone isn't the worlds greatest camera for miniature pics.


Note the odd branch coming off the mold line.


Note the obvious 1mm thick indent over the hat that appears to be two mold lines to me.


Note the excessive flashing on the hat, gun, and arm. I didn't find out this was flashing until I was cleaning them after taking the pics, so the flashing on the gun and arm can only just be seen on the left side of the model.


Note the white stuff on every non-contact point surface and unnaturally shiny bases.

Unfortunately, I'm not at all an expert at this and these could just be late production problems from failing molds for all I know, with the exception of the white stuff and greasy coating. When asked about the white stuff and greasy coating, the seller said that they put them in a vinegar solution and/or cleaning fluid bath in an ultrasonic cleaner and forgot to wash it off before packing them.


I got good news for you. I would not be able to tell if these are recasts or not, from your photos. My heavy weapons lass gun, took it out of a blister just the other day. We bought at the FLGS decades ago, has the same exact annoying line. Those guns were infamous for those same exact lines. The Valhallans are clean. The point I am making is that I could not tell from that line since some models had those back in the day. Especially when molds were getting old. I have a heavy weapons team that needs to be cleaned up before assembly, Waiting for the 50 mm bases to show up before I start working on that.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/16 15:14:26


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Thanks for your input. As a collector of the old metal models, I know that GW used a number of different metals and alloys to make their models through the years, with each being affected differently by aging. I know it was mostly lead, pewter, or GWs white metal alloy, but I'm pretty sure at least the alloy was tweaked through the years. I've seen some keep their shiny new appearance under paint, some that get splotchy, some that tarnish to grey, some that tarnish to bronze, pictures of lead rot which I am thankful has never happened to me personally, etc. I even have a set of Kasrkin that came out weirdly pitted and lead color after I cleaned them with SimpleGreen. Not 100% those aren't recasts though, since I acquired them more than a decade ago and I can't remember if I got them off eBay or directly from a friend.

On top of all that, I personally own a few old metal models that are still sealed and looking brand new for it and have traded or sold others in similar condition, so I know that looking new doesn't automatically make them copies. Heck, I could put up pictures of tons of old metal IG I've bought from a variety of sources that are bare metal and look new. There's an almost zero chance they're all recasts since they came from a number of different sales. Especially under paint and glue where the metal isn't exposed to the air it can stay perfectly shiny.

Also, I know how it feels to have a nice old HWT and then have to source a 50mm base for a reasonable price. I've mostly decided I'll just wait until I have a 3D printer and make my own, preferably with some depressions so I can base them as intended for display and then lock them into the new 50mm standard with magnets for play. I have acquired a veritable platoons worth of old HWTs in the past year and a half that all need bases.
   
 
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