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Longtime Dakkanaut





There seems to be a huge core of fans for this army, aren’t GW missing out on a guaranteed money maker?
   
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For the same reasons that all of the Badab War Marine Chapters dont have supplements:

It's covered by Imperial Armor.
   
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Because GW's determined to make sure nobody buys a Forge World model ever again without telling us "we're deleting Forge World".

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Because millions of guardsmen doing their duty and getting all well dead in the face and dying from violence to the point they’re no longer alive on account they’ve all been brutally slayed to death until they’ve snuffed it from being blown apart is hardly a defining feature of any given regiment?

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Sterling191 wrote:
For the same reasons that all of the Badab War Marine Chapters dont have supplements:

It's covered by Imperial Armor.


All armies could be covered in the imperial armour index. Why haven’t GW chosen to upgrade DKK to a full codex considering how popular they would probably be.
   
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Fixture of Dakka




Too many companies make recasts of GW models that are better quality and of lower cost then GW could ever make plastic or resin models.

If GW gave the Krieg a set of rules, or worse a good set of rules, that made them popular. They would be fighting for the market against the forges in eastern europe and China. And they would probably lose. There for they would rather cut and ignore the faction.

They seem to have had the same problems with fantasy. Too many companies could create models just as good or better then GW, and sometimes for lower cost.

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Because they're just a regiment and the only units they have left that are unique to them are Death Riders. Everything else is just basic AM units no different from a Cadian or Catachan in equipment.
   
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I'm a bit sceptical that it's to cut down the recaster revenue. If someone really wanted a recast DKK army, the lack of a dedicated book isn't really going to stop them. If it were me I'd just run them as normal IG.

   
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Guard as a whole have been left to languish for a while. They and Craftworld Eldar are probably the factions that need the most overall touching up for their models.

I've been hoping they'd get a touch-up soon, but GW recently throwing them a bone with an extra head sprue has killed that hope. If they touch up the line, probably won't hear about it for another year if not longer.

As for why DKK specifically aren't getting a codex, the answer is probably simpler in that GW doesn't believe it's worth the effort. Space Marines get their subfactions with codexes and unique units because they make up 50% of the game (at least). DG/1ksons get theirs because they're popular armies and even if someone isn't going to start those armies specifically, CSM players could still potentially pick them up for their army too.

Whereas IG are a bit more difficult to branch out since the regiments all are fairly distinct. Sure, you could probably convert an army of Tanith if GW released a recon scout squad box that was basically just cadians with cloaks, but other IG regiments look like: stereotypical WW2 Russians complete with fuzzy hats and great coats (Vostroyans and Valhallens, I think?), medieval german trench fighters (DKK), aliens colonial marines (cadians), rambo jungle fighters (catachans), whatever the armaggedon steel legions are supposed to resemble, aliens colonial marines but with jetpacks (elysian drop troops), turn of the century dress uniforms (Mordians), and french legionnaire desert raiders (Tallarns, they also really hate Chaos).

There's really no way for GW to support all that in a reasonable way for a faction as minor as IG (saleswise). Which I consider a shame since the Guard are more interesting and heroic than Space Marines.
   
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GW used to sell several different looking metal regiments, they did not apparently sell well enough to justify keeping them around beyond catachan and cadian. maybe one day they will bring a few back and take dkok form forgeworld or just the same aestetic... but i kind of doubt it.

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GW can't even be bothered to support normal guard properly, a new plastic range for Krieg (and that's the only way you'll see a codex) is never going to be on the cards.
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Because millions of guardsmen doing their duty and getting all well dead in the face and dying from violence to the point they’re no longer alive on account they’ve all been brutally slayed to death until they’ve snuffed it from being blown apart is hardly a defining feature of any given regiment?


Catachan got their own in the past, beats every Chapter Codex Marines get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
GW used to sell several different looking metal regiments, they did not apparently sell well enough to justify keeping them around beyond catachan and cadian. maybe one day they will bring a few back and take dkok form forgeworld or just the same aestetic... but i kind of doubt it.


There has been no evidence to support the theory of them not selling well officially. As for example I have been told by a local store manager that the molds had gone bad.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/07 20:10:23


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 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm a bit sceptical that it's to cut down the recaster revenue. If someone really wanted a recast DKK army, the lack of a dedicated book isn't really going to stop them. If it were me I'd just run them as normal IG.


Okey, but then you have to work with resin, and deal with the fact that IG rules are kind of a bad. People aren't going to be killing themselfs to play an army like that. And the recaster thing is not just an under cut thing. FW tried to fight with eastern europe and china. regarding resin products just like that, and they lost. The originals have worse quality, worse masters and cost more. Only thing FW has in their favour is the fact that they do send replacments, althought not everywhere, and if the mold is bad, then getting another batch of bad looking or not fitting model parts is not going to help much.

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Gonna spoiler this to prevent it looking obnoxious, but as I recall:
Spoiler:

Altima wrote:
stereotypical WW2 Russians complete with fuzzy hats and great coats (Vostroyans and Valhallens, I think?),

Valhallans are WW2 Red Army, Vostroyans are supposed to be more late-19th Century Prussians
Altima wrote:
medieval german trench fighters (DKK),

WW1 general trench fighters (there's elements of French and British uniforms in Death Korps designs as well as German)
Altima wrote:
aliens colonial marines (cadians), rambo jungle fighters (catachans),

Yep
Altima wrote:
whatever the armaggedon steel legions are supposed to resemble,

I want to say Wehrmacht, though I'm not sure - that may get tossed around as much for the whole "every squad gets a mechanized transport" shtick
Altima wrote:
aliens colonial marines but with jetpacks (elysian drop troops),

early/mid Cold War French paratroops
Altima wrote:
turn of the century dress uniforms (Mordians),

Yeah, though IIRC there are plenty of similar dress uniforms still in use
Altima wrote:
and french legionnaire desert raiders (Tallarns, they also really hate Chaos).

Sort of, Tallarn are as much Lawrence of Arabia generic-Arabic-Bedouin as FFL/WW2 North African Campaign


Also, I feel like GW might have given up on IG with regard to recasters/3rd part sculpts. They just don't seem to care - if they had, we would've had more than one or two Made-To-Orders of the old regiments by this point. Getting the Tanith back is pretty cool, but they're one unit where most of the old regiments had three or four separate packs available (though the Tanith themselves only ever had the one squad, IIRC).
   
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 G00fySmiley wrote:
GW used to sell several different looking metal regiments, they did not apparently sell well enough to justify keeping them around beyond catachan and cadian. maybe one day they will bring a few back and take dkok form forgeworld or just the same aestetic... but i kind of doubt it.


they were pretty much unaffordable. it was like here you can buy this plastic box of cadian or catachan guardsman for 30$ or you can buy these 10 mordian ironguard for 100$ (i dont remember what they cost but it was considerably more than the plastic guardsman) in a time when you needed 30-50 guardsman per TROOP CHOICE becuase of platoons.

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 waefre_1 wrote:
Vostroyans are supposed to be more late-19th Century Prussians.


What's Prussian in Slavic-like names and stereotypical cossack hats?
   
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Is recasting really the problem? What’s to stop a Chinese company making their own space marines? As far as I am aware China don’t have to obey intellectual property rights established within the UK. Although it might be illegal to import them but only to the UK
   
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Because they wouldn't sell as well as the other codex armies.

Anyone who says they would is making the mistake of thinking the internet is a accurate reflection of the community at large rather than the vocal minority that it actually is.
   
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 BlaxicanX wrote:
Because they wouldn't sell as well as the other codex armies.

Anyone who says they would is making the mistake of thinking the internet is a accurate reflection of the community at large rather than the vocal minority that it actually is.


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 BlaxicanX wrote:
Because they wouldn't sell as well as the other codex armies.

Anyone who says they would is making the mistake of thinking the internet is a accurate reflection of the community at large rather than the vocal minority that it actually is.


(Shrugs) they'd sell perfectly fine if GW decided "This is one of the two styles of Guard we're offering in plastic.".
   
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They should just be put in the regular IG Codex not have one of their own. We have enough bloat as is, not sure why we need to create an entire codex for an army that diverges from regular IG for what, 3 army choices?
   
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mrFickle wrote:
There seems to be a huge core of fans for this army, aren’t GW missing out on a guaranteed money maker?
Don't mistake a small but loud group as being a 'huge core' of fans.
   
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I think Guard are the army that has had the most stuff move from Forge World into GW territory. I don't recall specific units- Forgeworld having always been resin, and always more expensive, I haven't followed it closely.

I know for sure the Valkyrie started as a FW kit, and there was a thread about it a while back with details about how many and which FW kits went mainstream.

The reason I mention this is that we don't yet know what 9th has in store for guard, other than the fact that it probably doesn't include new Cadians.

It could be a small release like DG, DE, GK or Ksons; it could be a medium release like Sisters or Orks; or dare to dream, a range refresh release like SM or Crons.

Tanith were technically a BL release, not a guard release, which is good because they likely won't count against the tally of whatever is on the way.

I want Guard badly; I almost bought in at the beginning of 8th, but there was just too much else to buy, and now that we're in 9th I'm afraid to buy because of the potential for scale creep and mismatched looking armies.

I totally agree that Guard and CWE are the two factions most in need of love. I'm hoping for a range refresh/ starter box 9.5 for both once most of the dexes are out.

If they did it, we'd have sooo much less to complain about. DKoK could theoretically be a part of the package, even if they currently are FW. I really do suspect a lot of Catachan though- Ripper Jackson felt like foreshadowing to me.
   
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It's for the same reason we don't have a Guard codex for every named regiment. It's too hard for GW to copywrite.

We have something like 12 space marine factions because they're the face of the setting, and GW can easily protect their IP.

I'd love to have a codex for all the unique Guard regiments. In 3rd edition we had a codex for Catachan, we had a codex for Eye of Terror with Cadia, we had codex Armageddon with the Steel Legion, we had rules for the first Imperial Armour and GW's Armoured Company. In 5th edition we had a codex for DKOK and Elysian Drop Troops, we also had the Imperial Armour One Second Edition.

Damn, it's sad to see how far Guard have fallen.
   
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As other's have already said, there's nothing that really differentiates them from the regiments that already have their own rules.
   
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Right behind you.

 warmaster21 wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
GW used to sell several different looking metal regiments, they did not apparently sell well enough to justify keeping them around beyond catachan and cadian. maybe one day they will bring a few back and take dkok form forgeworld or just the same aestetic... but i kind of doubt it.


they were pretty much unaffordable. it was like here you can buy this plastic box of cadian or catachan guardsman for 30$ or you can buy these 10 mordian ironguard for 100$ (i dont remember what they cost but it was considerably more than the plastic guardsman) in a time when you needed 30-50 guardsman per TROOP CHOICE becuase of platoons.

If you were being charged $100 for 10 Iron Guard? You were getting swindled.

Spoiler:

That, as far as I've been aware, was available for quite some time. It got moved to a white mail-order box and became Direct Only but it was a $35 set when the 20 Cadians were $30. Steel Legion had a similarly priced and available set.

Haha oh and it gets better Steel Legion Squad is still an item they sell... for $35!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/07 23:48:05


 
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:


Spoiler:

That, as far as I've been aware, was available for quite some time. It got moved to a white mail-order box and became Direct Only but it was a $35 set when the 20 Cadians were $30. Steel Legion had a similarly priced and available set.

Haha oh and it gets better Steel Legion Squad is still an item they sell... for $35!



Yep, from what I recall the other Guard regiments in pewter were roughly the same price as the plastics, maybe a touch more expensive. And you know what? They added a ton of flavor to what would otherwise be a pretty boring army. I'm pretty sure that if GW were to release one or two alternate plastic kits for one of the old regiments, they'd sell pretty well.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/08 00:56:40


 
   
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Right behind you.

Funny part is, additionally, that it always seems like people forget that the metal boxes included a Heavy Weapons Team more often than not.

Cadians and Catachans had to buy them separately.
   
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warmaster21 wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
GW used to sell several different looking metal regiments, they did not apparently sell well enough to justify keeping them around beyond catachan and cadian. maybe one day they will bring a few back and take dkok form forgeworld or just the same aestetic... but i kind of doubt it.


they were pretty much unaffordable. it was like here you can buy this plastic box of cadian or catachan guardsman for 30$ or you can buy these 10 mordian ironguard for 100$ (i dont remember what they cost but it was considerably more than the plastic guardsman) in a time when you needed 30-50 guardsman per TROOP CHOICE becuase of platoons.


They were up until the last sold for 35$ each, I think one of them may have been 40$ at the end? I think that was Tallarn but don't quote me on that.

At the time of their removal, a Cadian squad was 29$ I believe. Its actually mildly amusing that Cadians are now more expensive than Steel Legion.

Kanluwen wrote:Funny part is, additionally, that it always seems like people forget that the metal boxes included a Heavy Weapons Team more often than not.

Cadians and Catachans had to buy them separately.


While true (except Valhallans which I don't think had one in the 10 man set but I could be wrong), it was always the same heavy weapon and if you don't want it you are SOL. Its nice that Steel Legion is still sold, but when 3 of the 10 models are taken up with a Grenade Launcher, a Missile Launcher, and a Missile Loader, you need some conversion work in order to make it work. The other option was to buy individual models for like 9$ I think for a single special weapon (I am pretty sure I remember Steel Legion Plasma Gunner at that price), or 10-15$ for a single heavy weapon but only a single loadout. Also not every regiment got every special weapon - it could be converted up, but if memory serves Steel Legion never got Melta or Flamers, Valhallan never got Plasma, etc.

So the sets were great if it had the loadout you wanted, otherwise you needed to buy multiple boxes or do conversions.

Compare to Cadians where, in a pinch, you can get a single Heavy Weapon's Team/Squad box and a regular Infantry box and spread the goodies around to get a decent number of heavy weapons out fast.

Griping aside, the alternate regiments had a ton of character to them and helped to split up the look of the guard range nicely. It would be nice if GW either brought some of them back or came up with a new one.
   
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Right behind you.

You forget that up until the Cadians and Steel Legions, the heavy weapons more/less shared the same crew figures.

Autocannons and Heavy Bolters were fairly easy swaps. Lascannons, Missiles, and Mortars were a different story though.

You're spot on about the "not every regiment got every special weapon", but it never really mattered that much since people could source the parts easy.
   
 
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