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How much will boyz cost with T5 and AP-1 Choppas?
7pts
8pts
9pts
10pts
11pts
12pts
13pts
14pts
15pts

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Out of curiosity what do you guys think Boyz will cost with the new codex, we know as a fact they are getting buffed to T5 and getting AP-1 Choppas. At the moment they are 8ppm. I would love to read justifications for opinions as well

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Plenty of units saw durability buffs with no increase. I don't see a huge reason for that here. We may see other changes though.

Now who the hell voted 15 points?

   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Plenty of units saw durability buffs with no increase. I don't see a huge reason for that here. We may see other changes though.

Now who the hell voted 15 points?


Space Marines got a 2 or 3 point increase for that second wound. Seems pretty reasonable Orks will be around 10 - 11 points with their buffs.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Jarms48 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Plenty of units saw durability buffs with no increase. I don't see a huge reason for that here. We may see other changes though.

Now who the hell voted 15 points?


Space Marines got a 2 or 3 point increase for that second wound. Seems pretty reasonable Orks will be around 10 - 11 points with their buffs.


A point of toughness with a wet t-shirt save is not equivalent to a wound in power armor.

   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






I can see it going to 9 ppm, I'm hoping they stay at 8 though, since going up to 9 makes it unlikely that the new snagga boyz will be costed correctly.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I believe they'll be 9ppm. And snaga boyz at 10ppm. So two snaga for an intercessor and two boyz for a tactical.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




I worry they'll be 10 (two upgrades = 2 Points, because GW logic) and beastsnaggas will be 12 for roughly the same reason.

8 & 10 respectively feels optimistic, but best since boyz are currently overpriced

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







I expect they'll either be 2-3pts less than they should be or 2-3pts more than they should be, so, given the result of this poll, either 7ppm or 13ppm.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
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Made in au
Dakka Veteran





Everyone knows the 3+ save is WORTHLESS and orks are getting an even better defensive buff than +1 wound because EVERYONE is using D2 weapons.

They should cost as much as a first born at least!
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





I have yet to meet someone who doesn't spam d3+3 and d6+2 damage weapons with AP-4, so clearly only the T5 part is relevant. They are functionally identical to aggressors and are troops!
I'd say that 40 ppm is the bare minimum.

I voted 9.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 04:16:36


 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

With T5 base and AP-1 in combat, but the likely loss of respawning stratagem, I feel they finally worth 8ppm, they've been quite overcosted in 8th. 9ppm at most, but only if the codex is pretty strong to justify that.

Wracks are 8ppm, and not really worse than boyz. Wyches are way more killy than boyz, not particularly less resilient since their 4++ in combat and access to effective transports, and they're 10ppm.


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






With the information we have right now, I vote 8 points, thought if there are ways to improve them above and beyond what we know, more points might be adequate.
I assume that scarboys will be gone to open design space for beast snaggas, and without that stratagem, current boyz aren't even remotely worth 8 points.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Plenty of units saw durability buffs with no increase. I don't see a huge reason for that here. We may see other changes though.

Now who the hell voted 15 points?


50/50 split between someone trying to get a rise out of certain ork posters or someone who genuinely hates orks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 07:30:07


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





 Eonfuzz wrote:
Everyone knows the 3+ save is WORTHLESS and orks are getting an even better defensive buff than +1 wound because EVERYONE is using D2 weapons.

They should cost as much as a first born at least!


Lol. 60 ork boyz in a turn is easy peasy task. T5 let's say you are in optimal situation so you get 50% increase shots needed(so everything is S4. This is generous assumption huge % of shots won't care). 40 dead.

So before 480 pts died in a turn. And now in super generous situation 720 pts.

Either you hate orks and just want them to be nerfed to death or you would make super bad game designer(to say it politely)

2021 painted/bought: 857/1043 
   
Made in gb
Hungry Ork Hunta Lying in Wait





I voted 9. I'd like them to keep 8 since a massive melee horde on 32mm bases has some self limiting damage application in of itself.

Im worried it'll be 11 and the snagga beast boys will be something obscene like 15 so GW can say the upcoming Ork box "WOOOW, like 500 pts in a box!!!"
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






tneva82 wrote:
 Eonfuzz wrote:
Everyone knows the 3+ save is WORTHLESS and orks are getting an even better defensive buff than +1 wound because EVERYONE is using D2 weapons.

They should cost as much as a first born at least!


Lol. 60 ork boyz in a turn is easy peasy task. T5 let's say you are in optimal situation so you get 50% increase shots needed(so everything is S4. This is generous assumption huge % of shots won't care). 40 dead.

So before 480 pts died in a turn. And now in super generous situation 720 pts.

Either you hate orks and just want them to be nerfed to death or you would make super bad game designer(to say it politely)


tneva, your sarcasm detector is broken

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





i can see 10 because GW.... but i think 9 is about .. fine?

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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Don't we know that the points in the Munitorum Field Manual is the same?

Dark Eldar had their codex points released in the Munitorum Manual (complete with typos) months before their codex came out.
GW has also stated that the points for Grey Knights are already in the Manual and they're still month's away.
   
Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






 Jidmah wrote:
With the information we have right now, I vote 8 points, thought if there are ways to improve them above and beyond what we know, more points might be adequate.
I assume that scarboys will be gone to open design space for beast snaggas, and without that stratagem, current boyz aren't even remotely worth 8 points.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Plenty of units saw durability buffs with no increase. I don't see a huge reason for that here. We may see other changes though.

Now who the hell voted 15 points?


50/50 split between someone trying to get a rise out of certain ork posters or someone who genuinely hates orks.


Let's not rise and feed the 15 point per boy troll

I voted 8, because I think boyz will lose stuff, not just the green tide strat, to balance out the ap1 choppas and the increase to toughness 5. Perhaps it is wishfull thinking...

Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
I voted 9. I'd like them to keep 8 since a massive melee horde on 32mm bases has some self limiting damage application in of itself.

Im worried it'll be 11 and the snagga beast boys will be something obscene like 15 so GW can say the upcoming Ork box "WOOOW, like 500 pts in a box!!!"


Interesting idea.

The box has 20 snaggas, the rider nob, 3 riders and the named runtherd, total PL will be 25

So, guessing the PLs, the nob will likely be between warboss on warbike and the nob with waaaghbanner, so 5PL is a rather sure guess.

Named ork characters that aren't combat experts tend to be PL4 and are usually 1 PL more than their generic counterpart, so unless he has some hidden super-rule, PL4 also is a safe guess

The three squig riders will be somewhere close to nob bikers, koptas and kanz, so PL7-9 for the three of them?

The 20 beastsnagga boyz in the box will be PL7-9 as well, but only 9 is a reasonable choice - otherwise they would be cheaper than boyz. So riders will be PL7.

Basically the Nob on Smasha Squig will be 85-105 points, more likely on the low end of the range
Zodgrod Wortsnagga is 65-75, also less is more likely than more for him
The squig riders are likely to be 45-50 ppm, plus bomb squig.
So unless I'm completely off with the two characters, beastsnagga boyz will be no more than 9-10 ppm, 11ppm would make the riders ridiculously cheap.



This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/09 08:10:33


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





 kirotheavenger wrote:
Don't we know that the points in the Munitorum Field Manual is the same?

Dark Eldar had their codex points released in the Munitorum Manual (complete with typos) months before their codex came out.
GW has also stated that the points for Grey Knights are already in the Manual and they're still month's away.


Orks had ZERO changes. And had no new units in it. So no it's not the same for some reason.

That is bit weird which makes think either orks were supposed to be lot later and got moved to front or MFM is based on codex released fully and that the ork separate will be after TS/GK so even if limited box comes out before that(not yet official) it doesn't count for GW for MFM inclusion.

Either way with zero changes and no new units(unlike say sisters, GK and TS who got new units) so the MFM is old codex prices. Not new.

2021 painted/bought: 857/1043 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I think if it were me doing it I'd be looking into how many of the orks' major crutches i was keeping around.

if I was getting rid of or drastically changing Da Jump, Ere We Go, the +1 charge out of the Evil Sunz tactic, the KFF, or Endless Green Tide, I'd keep them at 8.

Basically if your options to deliver the new T5, AP-1 ork boyz is "walk them up the field, stick 12 in a trukk, or stick 20 in a battlewagon" then I'd consider them a pretty reasonable pick at 8pts. Kind of just a more functional Tzaangors.

if you're keeping endless green tide, keeping da jump, keeping evil sunz charge buff and keeping 'ere we go all as is, I think the new boyz are a 9pt or even 10pt model.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






The only real clutch on that list is Endless Green Tide.

Da Jump has lost a lot of power with smaller boards, changed detachment dynamics and new terrain rules and is now merely a good power instead of a mandatory auto-take that you take twice in every list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 12:12:31


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





France, region of Paris

Well I voted 9 points, so only one more thant the current price. GW is accustomed to giving serious boosts to units in obvious need of a revamp, while keeping the same price, or just about the same.
Look at the Drukhari raider : same price as before, but D3+3 damage shooting, toughness 6 instead of 5. Sure they pushed the price up a bit since the codex, but in emergency, after an uproar of the communauty, youtubers, and tournament data showing that drukhari were overpowered.

So they will aknowledge the bad position of ork boyz (8th codex state) by giving almost free upgrades. I voted +1 point, instead of +0, just because there are two significant upgrades, not only T5, but AP-1 choppas.
They are likely to lose the unstoppable green tide stratagem, I think. Which will make this exchange still acceptable to ork players. But I admit I could misjuge their intent, and we would see very efficient 8 point boyz.

On the other hand, I don't believe they will cross the 10 point mark.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 12:37:55


longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard  
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






As a primary ork player I think it depends. I am hoping they are 8 points if the codex fixes some of my perceived issues with the book.

currently the ork boy is fairly aenemic for the points before you start layering on buffs. its is the buffs that make ork horde lists work. I think it'd be much more fun to play not having to worry about distance to all the character buffs in order to make a boy go from fair to middling up to strong.

To be clear I am not saying that a buffed up boy is not powerful, more that a boyz squad out of buff range does underperform for the cost.

Lets look at a basic boyz list core as it stands now

warboss w/ klaw and kombi weapon 90 points
big mek w/ kff 60 points

boyz 30x3, 3 rokkits, nob w/ dual kill saws, 26 boyz per squad. 855 points

painboy 65 points

we now have boyz who when within range of all buff have a 5++ within 9 inches or the big mek, can advance and charge within 6 inches of the war boss, can take d3 mortals to pass morale from the boss, and ignore wounds on a 6 within 3" of the painboy.

solid buffs but now the orks are forces to be WAY more organized then I think orks should be. T5 takes care of some of the survivability and the ap-1 from choppas means the buffing characters is much less needed (not in this list but thing like ghaz being mandatory in competitive play with boyz) I am hopign for less buffs to be available in the ork codex and that they are more in the each unit relies on its own abilities kind of book.






10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

Voted 9.

Haven't played against Orks this edition, yet, so I don't have actual experience with/against them under the current rules.

Given the buff to T5 and the general quality of 9th edition codizies which I'm expecting for Orks to apply, too, I think 9 points will be fitting.

Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Does the +1T going to transfer to other units ? So ork bikers are going to be t6 and mega nobz and characters are going to recive the buff too?

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

As an Ork player, I feel I can say that Ork boys are currently overcosted. I think AP-1 choppas and T5 would be worth the 8 points they currently are considering they have to get into combat to use the AP-1 and they will still die in droves to anything even vaguely designed to kill infantry because 6+ save.

I hope that they stay at 8 points, but I've voted for 9 points because it's GW and of course they'll increase the cost.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Karol wrote:
Does the +1T going to transfer to other units ? So ork bikers are going to be t6 and mega nobz and characters are going to recive the buff too?


They havent said exactly, but they have said 'a wide variety'. The only ones we know for sure are Gretchin are going to t3.

If you left it up to me I'd keep the toughness on the biker stuff the same (to make bikes and buggies not the same toughness) but make ork bikers W3 instead of W2.

MANZ I can't imagine not going to t5. If not T5 W3 to be closer to terminator/gravis level, given how theyre way fething bigger than either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Afrodactyl wrote:
As an Ork player, I feel I can say that Ork boys are currently overcosted. I think AP-1 choppas and T5 would be worth the 8 points they currently are considering they have to get into combat to use the AP-1 and they will still die in droves to anything even vaguely designed to kill infantry because 6+ save.

I hope that they stay at 8 points, but I've voted for 9 points because it's GW and of course they'll increase the cost.


I think you could get rid of endless GT, but leave da jump (maybe nerf it by requiring the weirdboy to come with, like he used to, making it effectively a one use thing) and buff up defensive buffs with the new painboss and they'd work quite good at 9.

I imagine 'shoota' weaponry is going to be moving over to Rapid Fire to go along with ghazzy's gun, in order to make it so there's any chance in hell you'd take a shoota over an ap-1 choppa.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 13:46:13


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






I vote 9 points - T5 is an elite stat which will remove a lot of wounds going to the boys.

Beasty snaggas will probably be 10 points.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in nl
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





I voted 9 because much like Marines getting a second wound, T5 and AP-1 are incredibly good stats even if they previously were over costed. It just seems to be GW logic that such strong buffs need at least some point hike even if the previous value was way over costed. But no skin off my back if they remain at 8. I've seen the power of 5 point Poxwalkers and if they can stay so cheap I see no reason for Orcs not too have cheap horde infantry.
   
 
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