Switch Theme:

How intelligent are orks  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





They are depicted as talking like cartoon football hooligans and they is a simple ness to their lives but then they don’t want for much.

They can travel the galaxy and build complex machines but then the fluff states that they don’t know why they know how to do those things as it’s genetic knowledge.

What evidence is their of freedom of will, self recognition and problem solving skills?

And then what about gretchin??
   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block





There was that one time during the War of the Beast, an ambassador or diplomat kinda guy demanded the unconditional surrender of the Imperium, and as far as I recall, he was speaking proper high Gothic. Guess that means warfare and warshit aside, he's at least capable of daily matters like us.
There was also that one Ork who decided to kick the crap outta Khornite daemons. Dude's a freaking legend and is currently fighting loads of daemons and constantly being ressurected by Khorne to continue the cycle. Oh, and he's likely not corrupted by Khorne either. Guess that demonstrates his free will at some degree.
But perhaps the most well known part would be the temporary "alliance" between Macha (xenos filth from Biel-Tan), Angelos (glorious chapter master) and Gorgutz (filthy greenskins), that at least showed the Orks are "resonable" enough to be allied with when a far greater threat is looming.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/12 16:35:36


 
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




United Kingdom

While the average ork is dumber than a guardsman, Oddboyz are more intelligent (as are some Nobz). While a chunk of this is genetic, the Ork PoV novels show a wide range of independent thinking from Orks.

Gretchin are smarter than boyz.
   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say






Orks have freedom of will, fighting is just fun so they do it all the time.
Oddboyz like Meks and Doks have knowledge of mechanics, biology and other such topics that are innate to their genetics and they are driven to become these Oddboyz because of it.
The Orks seen during the War of the Beast were believed to have been able to evolve to a higher state as the Imperium hadn't been systematically exterminating them due to the Heresy and the fallout caused by it. They were basically left alone and then evolved into a species that almost toppled the Imperium.
It is theorised that the Orks are a decendant species of the Krork made by the Old Ones to combat the Necron in the War in Heaven. The Krork were said to have an innate skill with technology, repurposing and repairing machines to suit their warlike nature.
Grotz are smarter in some ways compared to Orks but are far more cowardly and weaker.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/12 17:07:28


 
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

Orks are quite intelligent, but their drives and values are totally different to a human's.

Straightforward and uncomplicated does not equal stupid.

   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say






In some ways an Ork is more free than the average human.
"Reject humanity, return to monke" basically.
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




Also depends on the situation. An Ork from a small tribe of feral Orks on a backwater planet might be very dumb, like cliché cavemen, barely able to speak.
A Mek inside of Ghazgkulls Waaagh or the Waaagh of the beast, fueled by Waaaghenergy of billions of Orks is able to literally plan and build a deathstar, invent teleportation technology and gravitational beam weapons. Or build a gargant. Orks become more intelligent whenuthe Waaagh energy in the galaxy or their Waaagh rises. They can trick Imperial commanders and Necrons alike, they analyse and copy the behavior of their einemies.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






beast_gts wrote:
While the average ork is dumber than a guardsman, Oddboyz are more intelligent (as are some Nobz). While a chunk of this is genetic, the Ork PoV novels show a wide range of independent thinking from Orks.

Gretchin are smarter than boyz.


I need to disagree here.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody ever trains or teaches Orks. Yet it would seem their entire species has at least a basic level of literacy and numeracy. They all know how to effectively wield their gear, and basic maintenance.

That all puts them above the average Guardsman and basic human.

Orks don’t worry about abstract or philosophical matters, because their society gives them all they need to be contented. This is reflected in their use of Teef as currency. As explained in Rogue Trader onwards, because Ork teeth grow continuously, no Ork is ever reduced to abject poverty for long. And there is no taboo in their society about smacking someone else’s Teef out, because Might Makes Right.

Stress is likely something of an alien concept to them, because they’re creatures of instinct. The ‘arder you are, the more power you wield. And the more you fight, the ‘arder you get. The Boss is only the Boss because he’s the ‘ardest around. And anyone is free to challenge them for that position at any time. So there’s no being passed over, no nepotism, no Old Boys Club type stuff. Whilst hideously brutal to our mindset, Orks have created a near perfect meritocracy.

It’s arguably a large part of their success. If your a Mek, Dok or Runtherd, you need to do your best, because unhappy customers don’t sue you. They beat the snot out of you. Sure if you enjoy the Boss’ favour you can get away with new and more interesting forms of bullying. But you can only get that favour by being good (see Mad Dok and Ghaz). You also have healthy competition with other Oddboys, because the better you are, the more Teef you can earn.

In their own way, Orks are a near perfect society.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune





Northumberland

Theyyyyy'rreeeee smarter than the average fungus!


One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






 Olthannon wrote:
Theyyyyy'rreeeee smarter than the average fungus!



"HEY HEY HEY GROO GROO!" - Yorkgi Barr, before running away from Ultramar Park Ranger Telion.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




How are we defining intelligence?

In Brutal Kunnin' we get a lot of scenes from inside the head of a nob. He seems to be applying normal human levels of problem solving skills to the situations he's in. Things like, "spread out when the artillery is incoming," and, "we'll die to dakka if we charge up this hill. Throw some grenades first."
The boyz following him interpret the command to spread out by "spreading out" right next to their nob seemingly demonstrating lower levels of intelligence.

In Prophets of the Waagh!!!, we see some grot revolushionaries, most of whom don't seem to bright, but their leader demonstrates an appreciation for long-term planning and relatively abstract concepts.

So I get the impression that the average ork has weaker problem solving skills, less appreciation for abstract thinking, etc. than the average human, but a range of intelligence does exist within the species.

Knowledge is distinct from intelligence. Orks know how to do lots of things seemingly as a form of instinct, genetic memory, or possibly a form of Waagh-based reincarnation or collection subconscious. Odd boyz know how to pull off technological stunts that would leave the average chirurgeon or tech adept scratching their heads, but how much a given odd boy actually *understands* his craft seems to vary. Sometimes they appear to be going off of instinct. Other times (such as in the Farsight novels), they seem demonstrate the ability to verbalize technobabble that implies they're thinking through a schematic in their heads, implying the use of imagination and planning.

tldr; some orks are smart. Most orks are dumb. Knowledge isn't intelligence. They probably have more talent for some types of thinking than others. (The orks in Empire of Lies plan misdirections and ambushes involving maneuvering across sectors of space and utilize ambush tactics in battle, but you don't get the impression that they'd be particularly good at regicide despite it utilizing a similar skill set.)
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




United Kingdom

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, nobody ever trains or teaches Orks.

Don't Runtherdz & Yellerz teach Yoofz & Ferals about the Orky Wayz?
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






beast_gts wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, nobody ever trains or teaches Orks.

Don't Runtherdz & Yellerz teach Yoofz & Ferals about the Orky Wayz?


I don’t recall so.

But sounds like a great excuse to pour back over my Orky books!

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
beast_gts wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, nobody ever trains or teaches Orks.

Don't Runtherdz & Yellerz teach Yoofz & Ferals about the Orky Wayz?


I don’t recall so.

But sounds like a great excuse to pour back over my Orky books!

I vaguely recall hearing that, but I think it's...
A.) Old fluff.
B.) More a matter of educating the yoofs about the local culture/an example of story telling for entertainment's sake/a matter of smacking them around to teach them what's expected of them and to demonstrate what happens if you cross an authority figure (read: bigger ork).
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






Well, ork stuff works, regardless of whether it's because they believe it does and it shouldn't but it does, it does.

Their society works, FOR THEM.

They cover a lot of the galaxy, at times i wonder how the imperium is bigger that ork territory, or is it?

An eldar philosopher wrote a treatise praising the orks. For one of those pompous Aholes to praise another species is just...,wow.

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

By any reasonable metric, orks are successful, and as such they must be viewed as intelligent in a way that may not be like ours but is valid.

I'm reminded of the line larry hagman had in 'fail safe' when he was translating what the russian ambassador said.

"The computers have a logic. it is not human logic, but it is valid."

Of course the slann gave orks their intelligence, crafted to do one thing and do it well: Win a war.

The eldar were given their intelligence by the slann too.

One can say that humans at least developed their own culture, language, science, morals, etc. Neither ork nor eldar can say that.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/13 10:57:10


"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




 Matt Swain wrote:
Well, ork stuff works, regardless of whether it's because they believe it does and it shouldn't but it does, it does.

Their society works, FOR THEM.

They cover a lot of the galaxy, at times i wonder how the imperium is bigger that ork territory, or is it?


Compared to planets that are inhabited by Orks the Imperium is pretty small (going by a map from 3rd edition I think). Orks are very decentralized and continously fight each other though, so despite living on millions of planets in the galaxy their actual empires usually don't rival the Imperium in size.
   
Made in it
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





Sesto San Giovanni, Italy

I think an even more interesting question is if there is a cap to an Ork intelligence, encyclopedic knowledge or capabilities.
They seems to become better and better the bigger their tribe/group/whaag became, an I don't think there's been a single mention of an Ork that reaches some kind of limits limits (only that was the best, not that can't be better).

In theory should be a limit to the information stored by Slann in the Orks DNA. Yet, at the best of my knowledge, any Ork brings with him the entire genetic material for all the Orks ecosystem: from snotling to squig to Doks, Meks and so on so forth.

I firmly believe Orks don't really have a specific intelligence, but that it grows as much as it's suited for their current situation. Also, there was some mention is some Orks codex that there are other more niche "professions" that orks develops only under specific circumstances(I always thought of them as navigator or diplomat it others roles that aren't part of the military battlefield centric perspective the codexes have).

So I would say that an Ork has an undefined, but potentially unlimited intelligence. They're smart exactly as much as they need to be to thrive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit - another question that I have is if the Orks roles/functions are programmed or not.
For example: a Genestealer Cults try to infiltrate Orks. Do they develop "orks Inquisitors" for the purity of the race since they need them, or in order to do so the Ancient Ones should have pre-codified everything?

The lore seems to suggest the second. Orks behavior the first.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/13 14:03:13


I can't condone a place where abusers and abused are threated the same: it's destined to doom, so there is no reason to participate in it. 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

Well, ork stuff works, regardless of whether it's because they believe it does and it shouldn't but it does, it does.

Their society works, FOR THEM.

They cover a lot of the galaxy, at times i wonder how the imperium is bigger that ork territory, or is it?


Ork stuff works because the inherent knowledge of how to make it is ingrained into their genetics. There's no "it works because they believe it does" involved.

As for ork territories, there's a bit of fluff somewhere, maybe in the 4th edition codex, that says something about how the Imperium has sent probes beyond the far reaches of the galaxy and all that ever gets transmitted back is endless guttural ork speech.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Matt Swain wrote:
Well, ork stuff works, regardless of whether it's because they believe it does and it shouldn't but it does, it does.

Their society works, FOR THEM.

They cover a lot of the galaxy, at times i wonder how the imperium is bigger that ork territory, or is it?

An eldar philosopher wrote a treatise praising the orks. For one of those pompous Aholes to praise another species is just...,wow.

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

By any reasonable metric, orks are successful, and as such they must be viewed as intelligent in a way that may not be like ours but is valid.

I'm reminded of the line larry hagman had in 'fail safe' when he was translating what the russian ambassador said.

"The computers have a logic. it is not human logic, but it is valid."

Of course the slann gave orks their intelligence, crafted to do one thing and do it well: Win a war.

The eldar were given their intelligence by the slann too.

One can say that humans at least developed their own culture, language, science, morals, etc. Neither ork nor eldar can say that.





I definitely think humans were made by the old ones, I think all psychic species were. There is something that says that that the old ones create races to be their warriors, like Orks and eldar, but also species to do grunt work as well. I think humans were either an unremarkable race made for unremarkable work, or they were one of many attempts to make a species for war and were abandoned as a failure or because they weren’t as good as eldar or Orks. Maybe even jokero, who’s inate techy abaility is simple to Orks. Maybe humans evolved from a primate that was an attempt to make the jokero
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Mr. Grey wrote:
Well, ork stuff works, regardless of whether it's because they believe it does and it shouldn't but it does, it does.

Their society works, FOR THEM.

They cover a lot of the galaxy, at times i wonder how the imperium is bigger that ork territory, or is it?


Ork stuff works because the inherent knowledge of how to make it is ingrained into their genetics. There's no "it works because they believe it does" involved.

As for ork territories, there's a bit of fluff somewhere, maybe in the 4th edition codex, that says something about how the Imperium has sent probes beyond the far reaches of the galaxy and all that ever gets transmitted back is endless guttural ork speech.


I believe it's pretty much canon that 'orktek" works because orks believe it works at at a subconscious level their collective psychic power alters reality in areas they are prevalent in.

"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






 Matt Swain wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
Well, ork stuff works, regardless of whether it's because they believe it does and it shouldn't but it does, it does.

Their society works, FOR THEM.

They cover a lot of the galaxy, at times i wonder how the imperium is bigger that ork territory, or is it?


Ork stuff works because the inherent knowledge of how to make it is ingrained into their genetics. There's no "it works because they believe it does" involved.

As for ork territories, there's a bit of fluff somewhere, maybe in the 4th edition codex, that says something about how the Imperium has sent probes beyond the far reaches of the galaxy and all that ever gets transmitted back is endless guttural ork speech.


I believe it's pretty much canon that 'orktek" works because orks believe it works at at a subconscious level their collective psychic power alters reality in areas they are prevalent in.


Nope, there's several cases of Imperials and even Chaos Marines operating Ork weaponry/tek at some capacity without an Ork nearby to wield it for them. The gestalt WAAAGH! field generated by boyz act as a psychic grease to make things work better in the hands of Orks, which means the ramshackle nature of their tech doesn't affect them as badly as they should (so human using shootas would have them much more prone to jamming/misfiring compared to an ork using it, for example, but it would still work for both). Orks can't pick up a tree branch and think it's a gun and starting shooting bullets out of it. It's a very common misconception popularized by the memeing of how Orks are a goofy race in general.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 00:15:33


 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

An ork is as brutal as they need to be while being as cunning as they need to be....nothing one nothing less. Anything else is a construct of the feeble 'umie brain!
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I feel that Orks are intelligent but have no great drives. Whilst a human might be driven to learn and understand why things work, orks are content to know that they work. They could learn how, but they simply don't see the point in it.

No ork has done an in-depth study of their economy. They just know it works, so they keep using it. Orks don't want to conquer the galaxy, they want to fight it, because that works. They're like dogs chasing cars, they wouldn't know what to do with one if they actually caught it! they want to fight, and win the fights, but not to win all the fights - cos then there'd be nuffink left to fight!

12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!

I'm Selling Infinity, 40k, dystopian wars, UK based!

I also make designs for t-shirts and mugs and such on Redbubble! 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






On Orks and their teknologee?

Some of their weapons shouldn’t work. Not all. It’s not universal nor mutually exclusive.

And the exact amount of “this should not work” could theoretically vary from “this one doesn’t have a firing pin, but shows clear evidence of having discharged several rounds” to “this one has completely the wrong bore for the ammo loaded in” and even more extreme examples.

It’s my understanding that so long as a Shoota looks ded shooty, it will be ded shooty in the hands of an Ork. So it’s not as if they can just wield a wooden prop gun and get it to actually fire.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: