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Hey Dakka Chaos Space Marine players,

Just letting you all know me and my bro have been playing 2000 point games where Chaos Marines have 2 wounds for 18 points. You don't have to wait for GW, just start playing that way till codex comes out. We did and were not looking back. You can do it too! We both agree with the other 9th books being out and playing against them it actually balances the game out quite nicely. If your opponent at your local store/event wont let you play that way, just tell him your doing it because your 9th codex got delayed *shrug*

For a casual game, I definitely agree that’d work.

I don’t think that’d fly at a tournament, though.

I've just been playing 30k.

 Black Knight wrote:
Chaos Marines have 2 wounds for 18 points.

In what world is CSM Chapter Tactics + DttFE equivalent to Chapter Tactics + Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines? They shouldn't cost more than 17.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Black Knight wrote:
Chaos Marines have 2 wounds for 18 points.

In what world is CSM Chapter Tactics + DttFE equivalent to Chapter Tactics + Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines? They shouldn't cost more than 17.

Homebrew tax. If you write any homebrew rules you need to make sure they're obviously weaker than the official rules or other players' responses will go to "You're just trying to cheat!" and they'll refuse to play the game.

CSM are still terrible with 2 wounds. It improves other units a lot to get an additional wound (e.x. havocs, berserkers, terminators etc), but vanilla CSM are junk no matter how many wounds they have. You could honestly make them 2W and still only cost 14 points and they'd still be bad.

yukishiro1 wrote:
CSM are still terrible with 2 wounds. It improves other units a lot to get an additional wound (e.x. havocs, berserkers, terminators etc), but vanilla CSM are junk no matter how many wounds they have. You could honestly make them 2W and still only cost 14 points and they'd still be bad.

Eh, for that price you could take a chaincannon and a combi-bolter for the Aspiring Champion and have the same stats as Intercessors minus the additional attack, but with more firepower, for less points. Are Intercessors bad now? They'd definitely be bad at 18 PPM without actually useful Legion traits though.

Intercessors get transhuman, better base guns, an additional AP in tactical, an additional attack, better chapter tactics, super doctrines, etc etc.

CSM are just terrible, unfortunately. They'd wouldn't be good even if they got the extra wound for free. They need a big datasheet revamp, they just fundamentally don't really do anything.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Intercessors get transhuman, better base guns, an additional AP in tactical, an additional attack, better chapter tactics, super doctrines, etc etc.

CSM are just terrible, unfortunately. They'd wouldn't be good even if they got the extra wound for free. They need a big datasheet revamp, they just fundamentally don't really do anything.

Agreed on the doctrines, Legion traits, and attack. But the additional weapons I mentioned, for less points, would make up for the guns.

And CSM don't have Transhuman, but Night Lords have In Midnight Clad, which is better against S4 or less, because it actually does something, equal or better against S5-7 depending on the BS of whatever is shooting at you, but worse against S8 and higher. But if you're shooting your AT guns at my infantry instead of my tanks and dreadnoughts, that's fine. But they'd definitely be bad at 2W at 18 PPM. 14 I could work with.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

 Black Knight wrote:
Chaos Marines have 2 wounds for 18 points.

In what world is CSM Chapter Tactics + DttFE equivalent to Chapter Tactics + Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines? They shouldn't cost more than 17.

Homebrew tax. If you write any homebrew rules you need to make sure they're obviously weaker than the official rules or other players' responses will go to "You're just trying to cheat!" and they'll refuse to play the game.

Totally fair, I am just pointing out that there is a tax being paid, whether that is 1 pt or 4 pts IDK. The change to make them 2W solves a fairly large problem in the consistency of the narrative and rules of 40k and I would say that it is worth it to pay the homebrew tax for it if your opponent lets you. At the same time I don't think there is anything wrong with saying no, homebrew is often messy.

But seriously... there’s no chosen kit. Why on earth don’t we just take chosen off the elites slot and make those the new csm squad? No kit no rules and all... I mean at least the troop slot will be decent at either shooting (plasma? Combibolters?) or close combat... and it’s a troop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean this in response to how crappy csm squads are.

 vict0988 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

 Black Knight wrote:
Chaos Marines have 2 wounds for 18 points.

In what world is CSM Chapter Tactics + DttFE equivalent to Chapter Tactics + Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines? They shouldn't cost more than 17.

Homebrew tax. If you write any homebrew rules you need to make sure they're obviously weaker than the official rules or other players' responses will go to "You're just trying to cheat!" and they'll refuse to play the game.

Totally fair, I am just pointing out that there is a tax being paid, whether that is 1 pt or 4 pts IDK. The change to make them 2W solves a fairly large problem in the consistency of the narrative and rules of 40k and I would say that it is worth it to pay the homebrew tax for it if your opponent lets you. At the same time I don't think there is anything wrong with saying no, homebrew is often messy.

Homebrew rules are inherently messy because there's no way to do enough playtesting. I don't think you should say "yeah, sure!" to anyone who comes up to you for a pick-up game and asks to use homebrew rules, but at the same time saying "no homebrew rules ever" is perpetuating the same chicken/egg cycle of messy homebrew rules, because they've got to be played messy to become un-messy.