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These weapons suck. Chainswords should give -1ap and +1 attack and Boltguns should give -1 ap.

Astartes chainswords should give -1ap in addition to +1 strength.

Add astartes boltgun with is s4 ap-1 d2.

I play orks, and these weapons should be more killy; most of what's killing me is lightning claw spam or bladeguards anyway.

I'm not going to say you're wrong, but you really need to check the codex mate. Depending on that they are doing, and what phase they are in, they already get most of those buffs. Also most chapters of SM already give those buffs through CP use.

And no way I'm giving Assault intercessors any more help.

As for boltguns, are you aware of Relic bolt guns? Those are S4AP1 D2. If you want stock standard, then look at the Stalker bolt Rifle.

edit - accidental double post

Well they should be what vs their normal targets?

For background back in the day Flak was 6+ save, power armour 4+ save and humans were toughness 3 with 1 wound. Marines went up to T4, save 3+ and wounds 2.

Weapons were
Bolt gun Str 4 -1sv +1to hit within 12"
Lasgun Str 3 -1sv +1to hit within 12"
Chainsword Str 4 -1sv close combat system a bit different (fighting someone of equal WS? hit on 5's)

So in general you get more dice now (rapid fire and +1 chainsword attacks) instead of individually more powerful shots.

This is a troll, right?

 Valkyrie wrote:
This is a troll, right?

I mean, whats the harm in treating it like it's not?

I've had similar thoughts in the past too actually, but the problem seems to be mostly that the fluff bolters and chainswords are VERY different than what is actually shown on the game table.

Eventually, I kinda just made peace with it myself. This is not exactly a "realistic" game by any standards, and so I'm okay with weapons like these not being as "killy" as they would be in a more grounded representation.

(Seriously, do you think any normal person would survive taking a bolter round to the chest? They probably wouldn't even have a chest afterwards!)

I wish to stress that this is exactly the same complaint that created the mess of buff-stacking that was SM2.0 in the first place.

A 20mm grenade exploding anywhere near you would incapacitate you. A single wound from a bolter round blowing up the dude next to you would probably wound you and also cause such psychological horror you would freeze or run. Let alone a magazine of them being fired at you. Space marines would be unstoppable killers compared to anything less than other space marines or robotic fighting suits with equally high energy weapons or giant alien bugs

warpedpig wrote:
A 20mm grenade exploding anywhere near you would incapacitate you. A single wound from a bolter round blowing up the dude next to you would probably wound you and also cause such psychological horror you would freeze or run. Let alone a magazine of them being fired at you. Space marines would be unstoppable killers compared to anything less than other space marines or robotic fighting suits with equally high energy weapons or giant alien bugs

And a Chainsword would grind to a halt moments after hitting anything vaguely durable.

Realism is not 40k's strong suit-best not to pay it too much mind.

warpedpig wrote:
A 20mm grenade exploding anywhere near you would incapacitate you. A single wound from a bolter round blowing up the dude next to you would probably wound you and also cause such psychological horror you would freeze or run. Let alone a magazine of them being fired at you. Space marines would be unstoppable killers compared to anything less than other space marines or robotic fighting suits with equally high energy weapons or giant alien bugs

Sure, and a "mono-molecular" shuriken from an eldar shuriken catapult should essentially ignore any armor made out of any kind of 'matter'. Power armor should be exactly as useful at stopping them as ork scrap metal armor.

Good thing 'realism' is not a thing in 40k, basically at all.

I have it on good account that 40k is very realistic. Flamethrowers are often great tools for anti aircraft fire and artillery should absolutely be firing within a few hundred meters of its own position. That is clearly how war works.

Also if an astartes chainsword is inately +1 Strength and AP-2, in the assault doctrine it will become AP-3. So you’ve just created a power sword. We can make it even worse though, now let’s add the blood angels chapter trait so we get +1 to wound. Suddenly an assault marine with a chainsword wounds anything in the game on a 4+ and at worst AP-2.