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Made in ca
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer



Ottawa

Strange question, I know...

When a planet is threatened by Chaos, 40k lore usually focuses on cases where the Imperium either pushes back the enemy or destroys the planet via exterminatus. I've never seen a description of what actually happens, in the long run, on a planet that has fallen to Chaos (be it through invasion or revolution). Do people continue to till the earth? Do they still go to work in manufactorums? Do they pay taxes to their new overlords, and supply goods and manpower for Abbadon's war effort? Are there new generations of humans born and raised under the rule of Chaos?

And if the mere notion of governing is antithetical to Chaos, then what happens on those planets, exactly?

.

Cadians, Sisters of Battle (Valorous Heart), Drukhari (Obsidian Rose)

Read my Drukhari short stories: Chronicles of Commorragh 
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




United Kingdom

It depends on how it falls. There're several novels where the general population has no idea the Governor or ruling elite has been corrupted and are carrying on as normal until the Imperium invades (because they've stopped paying their tithe or an Inquisitor has noticed something).

Aren't some of the Gaunt's Ghosts set on Chaos held worlds?
   
Made in gb
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







Yes, some of the Ghost novels show chaos held worlds, or at least areas of imperial worlds held for a significant time with civilians ruled by chaos administrations. To be honest they are probably not substantially different to the bottom end of Imperial rule. Arbitrary capital punishment and grinding work schedules. Chaos worlds just have a different god, and a higher tolerance for mutations.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say





Chaos worlds do have governments and the irony is they aren't overly different from Imperial systems. A focus on the ruling class, the workers crushed beneath overseers' boots, mandatory conscription, reliance on enforcers to keep order, and a huge emphasis placed on religious worship.
Chaos Astartes don't particularly give a rats about mortals and wouldn't really get involved in the day-to-day runnings of their holdings.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 19:48:59


 
   
Made in fr
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos





Watch Fortress Excalibris

In the Imperium, man exploits man. Under Chaos, it is exactly the opposite...

Seriously, though, Chaos tends towards a sort of violently meritocratic despotism. Those with the will and capability to rise to the top do so, and rule over everyone else by whatever methods they can make work in a society with little in the way of collective spirit. Generally, that means rule by terror, crushing anyone who might challenge you until a bigger fish comes along and supplants you.

What stability there is depends on the strength and charisma of the singular ruler, not on laws or tradition or bureaucracy. That's where it differs from the Imperium, which has operated for ten millennia with the guy who is nominally in charge stuck in a chair unable to meaningfully communicate with anyone. That could never happen under a Chaotic regime. Any Chaos ruler who couldn't get down from his throne and dispatch his enemies with his own axe would be swiftly toppled.

But to the slaves toiling in the weapons factories, it wouldn't seem too different to life under the Imperium. Although there is at least the slim possibility of social advancement if the Gods take an interest in you, so... arguably slightly better?

"[Games Workshop] are ripping everyone off at every opportunity, it appears. This is an example of Pratchett's Law where people are taking everything out of the big pot and apparently putting absolutely nothing back in. Stew thieves. Nothing worse in this neck of the woods." - Michael Moorcock 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




-Guardsman- wrote:
Strange question, I know...

When a planet is threatened by Chaos, 40k lore usually focuses on cases where the Imperium either pushes back the enemy or destroys the planet via exterminatus. I've never seen a description of what actually happens, in the long run, on a planet that has fallen to Chaos (be it through invasion or revolution). Do people continue to till the earth? Do they still go to work in manufactorums? Do they pay taxes to their new overlords, and supply goods and manpower for Abbadon's war effort? Are there new generations of humans born and raised under the rule of Chaos?

And if the mere notion of governing is antithetical to Chaos, then what happens on those planets, exactly?

.


There is a Gaunt Ghost novel called Armor of Contempt (if I remember right) which sees the Ghost and their Crusade liberate world long occupied by the forces of Chaos. In the end, its a husk of a planet due to the brutal war economy, but it does talk about the governance and culture of the forces of Chaos in the region. It's a very sad novel btw.
   
Made in us
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle





The Gaunt's Ghost novel on Gereon, I forget which one it is. Gave heavy Nazi German occupation vibes for me, but it did touch on how they ran things and governed the planet. Its been years since I've read it, but I felt it drew from WW2's French Resistance/SAS in occupied France type deal, just with more threats of eternal damnation.
   
Made in us
Armored Iron Breaker





Chaos "law" - insofar as such a thing exists in 40k - is the war of all against all codified. Anything is allowed as far as you can justify it with strength.

Fernys Hjolda!
 
   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say





Spoiler:
 Duskweaver wrote:
In the Imperium, man exploits man. Under Chaos, it is exactly the opposite...

Seriously, though, Chaos tends towards a sort of violently meritocratic despotism. Those with the will and capability to rise to the top do so, and rule over everyone else by whatever methods they can make work in a society with little in the way of collective spirit. Generally, that means rule by terror, crushing anyone who might challenge you until a bigger fish comes along and supplants you.

What stability there is depends on the strength and charisma of the singular ruler, not on laws or tradition or bureaucracy. That's where it differs from the Imperium, which has operated for ten millennia with the guy who is nominally in charge stuck in a chair unable to meaningfully communicate with anyone. That could never happen under a Chaotic regime. Any Chaos ruler who couldn't get down from his throne and dispatch his enemies with his own axe would be swiftly toppled.

But to the slaves toiling in the weapons factories, it wouldn't seem too different to life under the Imperium. Although there is at least the slim possibility of social advancement if the Gods take an interest in you, so... arguably slightly better?

Imperial worlds are ruled by a Governor who has to maintain an image of strength so that their populace doesn't rise up and depose them. They use Enforcers and Arbites to uphold their rule and usually only fall if they become old/weak, at which point they are succeeded by a family member or replaced by the Munitorum with a rival family or a placeholder until a worthy successor can be found.
The Emperor doesn't really work as the "ruler" of the Imperium because He is its God as well and really it is the High Lords that actually rule the Imperium. The High Lords frequently are replaced or usurped throughout Imperial history because they don't have what it takes to get their hands dirty unless it makes them look bad politically, at which point they'll move the Earth itself and actually do some work. Of course, every time this happens the wider Imperium pushes back and "balance" is restored or an outside threat forces cohesion between the High Lords.
Chaos isn't nearly as meritocratic as you make it out to be either. Chaos leaders are just as corrupt (morally rather than physically) as Imperial ones and favouritism is absolutely a thing.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think the phrasing “does chaos” do something sets up the wrong way of thinking about it. Chaos is chaos.

Planets that have “fallen to chaos” means that they worship the chaos gods and their society has changed with their faith. But the way that planet is governed, be it mad max post apocalyptic, or something more functional or even highly functional, has nothing to do with the gods. They just soak up the worship.

Some chaos worshipers don’t know they worship the chaos gods as we know about them and they might be slightly hedonistic or extremely martial but could still be a nicer place to live than an imperial planet.

It’s more to do with how far the citizens take their religion into their culture and politics which detemermins how “choas” like the planet goes.

Some worshipers of chaos, like some of the traitor legions, recognise that their worship or connection to the gods or the eightfold path is having undesirable effects on them and they have to work to mitigate those effects. Not everyone want to become possessed or an obliterater
   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say





 RaptorusRex wrote:
Chaos "law" - insofar as such a thing exists in 40k - is the war of all against all codified. Anything is allowed as far as you can justify it with strength.

It's more complicated than that when it comes down to the details. A Chaos army won't fight for a warlord if they don't have arms, ammo, and supplies. It isn't just about strength but about guile, tactics and not being insane. A Chaos empire run by someone who grasps logistics and supply will be much harder to beat than one that just solves problems by punching them.
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





In the Iron Warriors and Night Lords omnibuses, we see areas under the control of the Red Corsairs. From what is shown, mutation is everywhere and there's general lawlessness and insanity everywhere. It's kind of like Necromunda, but even more twisted and cruel.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It varies a bit. The Daemon World novel has a planet dominated by a vaguely feudal Slaaneshi entity. They seem to exert a certain amount of authority and control over their holdings. Slaaneshi temples exist. Towns exist. Followers of other chaos gods exist, mostly at the edge of the current top dog's territory.

In short stories, we've seen a bit of how Huron Blackheart rules. He seems to basically have a hive of scum and villainy pirate town thing going on and seems to rule by virtue of having more guns present than anyone else. He hosts arena combat events that serve as a sort of tourism economy combined with a recruitment center for freelance warbands. He's pretty hands off on management; you can just straight up murder people if you feel like it, but there does appear to be enough order in place to arrange pre-planned events, supply Huron's court with quality snacks, etc.

Manflayer gives us a look at how Fabius rules his territory. He basically has a sort of medical college that demands a certain amount of decorum, partially human support staff that seem to be responsible for cooking, cleaning, etc., and then some hands-off augmented human societies that he largely doesn't command directly but who try to pursue whatever purpose they believe their creator (Fabius) has in mind for them.

From what I can tell, the planet of sorcerers is relatively hands-on. Mortals appear to be in service to either individual Thousand Sons psykers or the legion as a whole. I get the impression that they operate similarly to chapter serfs/a somewhat strict household.

In general, chaos seems to favor relatively hands-off approaches to governing, but I don't think that's a hard and fast rule. I imagine a dark mechanicum forge world is pretty orderly. Ditto a world ruled by Iron Warriors although life probably consists of some really unpleasant drudgery. A daemonic ruler seems prone to just devouring/wrecking the planet to the point that high levels of organized rule are difficult. An astartes ruler is likely to want to get back out on the battlefield meaning he's likely to treat the planet as a farm for resources and will likely skew the planet's structure to that end, but that might mean creating a stable planet capable of spitting out generations-worth of cultist fodder and logistical staff. A mortal ruler (that isn't warped enough to be totally insane or daemon-like) could theoretically maintain a relatively "normal" world, although the nature of chaos means they'd likely skew into something that pleases one or more chaos gods. So a slaaneshi ruler is likely to enact policies that make certain "celebrations" mandatory, legalize lots of stuff for the sake of pursuing the experience, up the production of drugs, etc. A khorne ruler might end up as a blood sport planet or something vaguely mad-Max-esque. A Tzeentchian planet might devote its resources to enacting some huge astrological ritual. That sort of thing.
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

That iron warriors vs ORK book has the iron warriors having conquered a world, running it and defending it against ORKS. It’s very much slave Labour and forced Labour, even in the fighting. People chained to gun posts or sealed into bunkers to stop them running. Forced Labour to make weapons and munitions and just enough food to live off.

Chaos isn’t a unified force or philosophy, each faction and individual will do as they need to succeed by their own standards. So there’s no one answer.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Andykp wrote:
That iron warriors vs ORK book has the iron warriors having conquered a world, running it and defending it against ORKS. It’s very much slave Labour and forced Labour, even in the fighting. People chained to gun posts or sealed into bunkers to stop them running. Forced Labour to make weapons and munitions and just enough food to live off.

Chaos isn’t a unified force or philosophy, each faction and individual will do as they need to succeed by their own standards. So there’s no one answer.


Where as the imperium will dig out your brain, replace your arms with heavy bolters and turn you into a bolter.

I sometimes wonder if the truth would be that the emperor has been a “chaos god” since before the great crusade when he got his super powers on molech. The reason he didn’t want people to worship him was because he knew this is how the worship of his particular force in the warp would result in the dystopia which is the imperium. Like he was trying to suppress the inflation of his presence in the warp which would be field by worship.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune





Northumberland

I figure if they're just chaos worshipping mortals, it won't be that much different from the Imperium. Same irony different day right?

But if there's daemons involved or if they're attacking an imperial held planet then it's bloodshed and madness etc etc.

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
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Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






 RaptorusRex wrote:
Chaos "law" - insofar as such a thing exists in 40k - is the war of all against all codified. Anything is allowed as far as you can justify it with strength.


Uh huh, and this is different than the imperium...how?

Chaos comes in all flavors. (Taste the rainbow!)

On khornate worlds it's all slave labor, building weapons sanctified by blood sacrifice, blood sports, blood shedding, bloody gladiatorial fights, and trying to be chosen to be a warrior of khorne. nothing more.

On a world dominated by tzeentch, there could be a huge bureaucratic government that became every more byzantine and labyrinthine for the sake of complexity until it collapsed and a new nightmare of endless bureaucracy rose.

slaanesh? No, not going there.....

Nurgle, decay, just decay and collapse. if you roof doesn't collapse within 3 years the government sends a great unclean one to sit on it till it does.

chaos undivided? Anything goes. Alpha legion worlds might actually work failry well as the AL avoids most of the yucky chaos stuff and may be working to actually help save humanity from chaos and the emperor. I got that impression in one of their novels.

iron warriors? Slave labor, slave labor, slave labor.




"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





In the book Lords of Silence, we see a little bit of the Plague Planet. It's basically a sickly cesspool of black and green where many of the locals often hide and live in fear of the Death Guard. Slave labor is all over the place, though the tiny silver lining is if when submits to Nurgle, they won't feel any more pain. In the last Ahriman book, Sortiarius is shown to be an urbanized planet where the capital city is constantly changing its shape, and if you're not a sorcerer or native, you're bound the get lost. Voices from both the present and the past can be head all over the place, and mutation is commonplace.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





The Laeran species, on who’s planet the emperors children first encountered the music of slaneesh, were slaneesh worshipers and seemed hedonistic in an alien way but seemed to have a functional society. Not that we know about their government or anything as it’s probably too alien to understand.


   
 
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