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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Battalion Valorous Heart

Hq1 morvenn Vahl warlord righteous rage
Hq2 canonness blessed blade infernal pistol the emperors grace, Mantle of ophelia, Impervious to pain

Troop1 5 battle sister
Troop2 5 battle sister
Troop3 5 battle sister

Elite1 6 Crusader
Elite2 6 Crusader
Elite3 6 Crusader
Elite 4 preacher zealots vindicator
Elite 5 5 celestial sacresants announced halberd

Hvy1 5 Retributor 4x multimelta 1x combi-flamer


Vanguard detatchment bloody Rose

Hq1 cannonness plasma pistol power sword rod of office word of the Emperor

Nofos1 repentia superior book of St lucious indomitable belief

Elt1 imagifier simulacrum sanatorium
Elt2 9 repentia
Elt3 8 repentia
Elt4 8 repentia
Elt5 9 Celestian sacresants hallowed mace
Elt6 9 celestian sacresants hallowed mace

Dt1 Rhino
Dt2 Rhino
Dt3 Rhino

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 14:33:02


 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

If I wanted to improve this, I'd start by replacing all three units of Crusaders with a single unit of 3 Mortifiers or Penitent Engines. You'll get a lot more mileage out of those. You might even have points left over to keep a single unit of 2 Crusaders to use as an "action slave" unit. The other thing I'd change would be to use a barebones Canoness with Benificence in the BR detachment. Maybe give her an inferno pistol and make the VH Canoness have the Power Sword/Plasma Pistol/Rod of Office loadout.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

The mortified are worth testing but now crusaders are cheaper and mortified got nerfed I don't think it's clear cut.

Crusaders get +1 and a 3+ 4++ and immunity to multidamage mortifiers get +2T

Definitely in crusaders favour

6 crusaders = 1 !anchorite
3 anchorites vs 18 crusaders
36A S4 Ap3 D1
24A S5 Ap2 D1

Again in crusaders favour

Now mortifiers HB are nice but isuspect you'll likely get 1 round before they blow in practice

Crusaders can do actions mortifiers gain a combat trick

I'm not sure it's clear one way or the other more different choices but I have the models so it's an easy test

Beneficence would require a 4th relic and the +1s aura on the imagifier is probably more use and the rod wants to be on the bloody Rose cannoness because everything I want to target within is bloody Rose. And vh cannonness can't do that.
   
Made in fi
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Helsinki, Finland

I think that your list could be better as a full bloody rose melee battalion, you're losing 3cp for Vanguard detachment, just for the sake of soup. The valorous heart portion gives a minor defensive buffs for 3x5 BSS, crusaders and retributors.

https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/
Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500) 
   
Made in au
Calm Celestian




 Spreelock wrote:
I think that your list could be better as a full bloody rose melee battalion, you're losing 3cp for Vanguard detachment, just for the sake of soup. The valorous heart portion gives a minor defensive buffs for 3x5 BSS, crusaders and retributors.
and that hilariously hard to kill Canoness!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A second Repentia Superior is going to be worth more than that Imagifier though...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 14:11:07


   
Made in us
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Italy

I really like the undying Cannoness with Mantle of Ophelia, Impervious to Pain and Emperor's Grace.

Have you had any experience running it? If so wow did your opponent try to play around a very hard to kill Canoness?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

VH benefits the tank canoness it also provides more benefit to the retributor and battle sisters who gain little from BR buy can benefit from more survivability

The plan is to reserve the canoness with the retributors and bring them on together. The canoness is a nightmare by math hammer but unfortunately morvehn and my sacrosancts are mid painting so it will be a couple of weeks before the list takes the field.

A second repentia superior is better for the repentia but I intended to put the imagifier with the sacrosanct blobs and they don't benefit from il
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I really like the undying Cannoness with Mantle of Ophelia, Impervious to Pain and Emperor's Grace.

Have you had any experience running it? If so wow did your opponent try to play around a very hard to kill Canoness?


I imagine it would work once and they'd either bury her in low quality attacks or ignore her. 4 attacks at S5 2 Damage isn't exactly game defining. She's more of a 'gotcha' for people who don't realize what she does.


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

You clearly don't understand how it works

She is a 3+4++5++ all damage received is reduced to 1. She heals 1w following an act of faith on say an auto save. If She doesn't die in one turn or if she dies and gets back up then next turn she heals d3 wounds in the Command phase she also ignores a pt of AP vs ap 1 or 2

It would take approximately 41 S5 AP2 D2 attacks to kill her in a phase by expectancy if she's not in cover and then she is getting back up. (Assuming 3+BS)

Sure it's not immensely damaging but drawing that firepower away from your army is really strong she can also with a right miracle dice put out an aura disableing reroles if they wish to ignore it.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 18:01:02


 
   
Made in au
Calm Celestian




Idk how good she'll be at 2k points, but I want to try her. Maybe even try to get some use from Suffering and Sacrifice

   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




U02dah4 wrote:
You clearly don't understand how it works

She is a 3+4++5++ all damage received is reduced to 1. She heals 1w following an act of faith on say an auto save. If She doesn't die in one turn or if she dies and gets back up then next turn she heals d3 wounds in the Command phase she also ignores a pt of AP vs ap 1 or 2

It would take approximately 41 S5 AP2 D2 attacks to kill her in a phase by expectancy if she's not in cover and then she is getting back up. (Assuming 3+BS)

Sure it's not immensely damaging but drawing that firepower away from your army is really strong she can also with a right miracle dice put out an aura disableing reroles if they wish to ignore it.



You clearly don't understand how it works if you don't understand that S5 and D2 make absolutely no difference to that equation vs S4 and D1(SHE has 4 attacks at S5 and D2, that's not how many it takes to kill her.). And 41 of those would be wasteful to put all in one place, but not impossible.

And drawing their fire only work once. The next time they just won't bother. She kills 2 intercessors or 1.66 T5 Orks per turn in melee and and kills 1 intercessor with her inferno pistol 70% of the time. It would take her 2-3 turns to steal an objective from a 5 man intercessor squad.

She's a decent utility piece but she's mostly a trap for people who haven't played her before.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 18:35:08



 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Not saying she's a beatstick and your assessment of value is off. I mean she deploys with the retributors so your getting some value from the reroll aura. Sure she probably doesn't slaughter waves of troops on her own but she is not meant to if she takes 100+ bolt shots strength and damage don't ap does across two turns while she has killed 3-4 models after buffing the retributors she has made her points back in the models she's saved. As you say if they don't bother killing her that's great I march up engage something shooty and disable rerolls. Not to mention in your scenario where she is left to munch through an intercessor squad she has more than made her points back in doing so 85pts vs 100pts for the intercessors

Also your maths is way off because she kills 2 intercessors in my fight phase 2 in your fight face with a passable chance of meltaing the fifth killing the squad in roughly 1-2 turns sure they can fallback so I don't fight in your fight phase but then I get the objevtive

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 19:25:54


 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




U02dah4 wrote:
Not saying she's a beatstick and your assessment of value is off. I mean she deploys with the retributors so your getting some value from the reroll aura. Sure she probably doesn't slaughter waves of troops on her own but she is not meant to if she takes 100+ bolt shots strength and damage don't ap does across two turns while she has killed 3-4 models after buffing the retributors she has made her points back in the models she's saved. As you say if they don't bother killing her that's great I march up engage something shooty and disable rerolls. Not to mention in your scenario where she is left to munch through an intercessor squad she has more than made her points back in doing so 85pts vs 100pts for the intercessors

Also your maths is way off because she kills 2 intercessors in my fight phase 2 in your fight face with a passable chance of meltaing the fifth killing the squad in roughly 1-2 turns sure they can fallback so I don't fight in your fight phase but then I get the objevtive


Turn is one-half of a battleround. There's almost no chance you kill the squad in 1 turn, even with shooting. You'd have to hit and wound every attack (melee and shooting) AND have them fail their saves(which they do still have). 4 WS 2+ attacks with S5 at AP-3 D2 is 4*.833*.667*.833*2=3.7 damage. 1 Inferno pistol shot can only ever kill one model but is a guaranteed kill in melta range so the average will be .833*.833= .69% chance of landing an auto-killing wound.

So it takes 2-3 turns to kill off 5 intercessors.

And i might be wrong, she's definitely something very different than what we've seen Canonesses do in the past. Maybe she is a hidden gem that can grind out value over the course of the game while being frustrating to dislodge. I personally think not, but without testing it's impossible to know for sure.

Play it, see what happens. Could be a crazy tech choice for VH lists.


 
   
Made in fi
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Helsinki, Finland

You're way over rating that Canoness. You're forgetting that she already has character protection, if she is near to a unit (and that's where she should be, providing rerolls). So, most likely, she is just going to be ignored. Her damage output is mediocre at best, and you cant seriously plan to footslogging her across the table to tie up some enemy firepower (even terminators struggles with that). She is utility pick for sure, but even hospitaller provides more durability to your units.

https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/
Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500) 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

No I aim to bring her on from reserves next to the retributors and engage the nearest unit when I say turn I mean battle round because 1 battle round is 8 attacks and that is achievable

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 21:01:41


 
   
 
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