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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Summary: Thousand Sons armies roll D6 for psychic tests, BUT they can spend Arcane Surges before the test to roll extra D6s. They get 1 Arcane Surge per psychic unit, meaning you can pool and spread your psychic power more flexibly; with three Sorcerers, you can use a D6 on one unit, a 2D6 on another, or even a 3D6 on a big power.

They also get powers that "scale" better, starting at relatively weak abilities that a D6 test might be able to pull off, all the way up to WC12+ effects that you'll want to plough Surges into.

Brotherhood of Sorcerers
When amassed on the field of battle, the Sorcerers of the Thousand Sons draw upon each other’s psychic vigour, using the collective vortex of magical energy to augment their own spellcraft.
PSYKER units from your army with this ability can enhance their psychic powers using Arcane Surges.

Gaining Arcane Surges
If every unit from your army has the THOUSAND SONS keyword (excluding models with the UNALIGNED or TZEENTCH DAEMON keywords), then:
  • At the start of your Psychic phase, gain 1 Arcane Surge.
  • At the start of your Psychic phase, gain 1 Arcane Surge for each friendly PSYKER unit from your army with this ability that is on the battlefield.
  • Each time a unit from your army with this ability attempts to manifest a psychic power, if it has already attempted to manifest another psychic power this phase, gain 1 Arcane Surge.
  • Each time a unit from your army with this ability successfully manifests a psychic power, if you rolled any triples on the Psychic test, gain 1 Arcane Surge.

  • Any unspent Arcane Surges are discarded at the end of the phase.

    Note that Arcane Surges can also be gained via other rules. No matter the source, you can only gain Arcane Surges from such a rule if every unit from your army has the THOUSAND SONS keyword (excluding models with the UNALIGNED or TZEENTCH DAEMON keywords).

    Spending Arcane Surges
    If every unit from your army has the THOUSAND SONS keyword (excluding models with the UNALIGNED or TZEENTCH DAEMON keywords), then:
  • Each time a Psychic test is taken for a unit with this ability, roll 1D6 instead of 2D6.
  • Before making a Psychic test for a unit with this ability, if you have one or more Arcane Surges, you can spend up to three Arcane Surges to enhance that Psychic test. For each Arcane Surge you spend, roll an additional D6 for that Psychic test.
  • Each time a successful Psychic test is made for a unit with this ability, if you rolled any doubles, your opponent cannot attempt to resist that psychic power with a Deny the Witch test or negate it by any means. Note that the psyker will still suffer Perils of the Warp on a roll of double 1 or double 6, and if slain by Perils of the Warp, the power they were trying to manifest will still automatically fail.


  • Prosperine Lore
    The Sons of Magnus are immersed in arcane knowledge wrenched from the twisted depths of time and space, enhancing their sorcery with occult practices both ancient and alien.
  • Each time a unit with this ability manifests a psychic power, the range of that psychic power is increased by 6" (excluding the range of aura abilities or other effects that target all units within a certain range).
  • Each time this model attempts to manifest the Smite psychic power and fails its Psychic test with a result of 5 or more, the power is successfully manifested instead. When manifested in this way, the Smite power inflicts 1 mortal wound instead of D3, or D3 mortal wounds if the result of the Psychic test was 11 or more.
  • Each time a unit (excluding a CHARACTER unit) with this ability manifests the Smite psychic power, it inflicts half the normal number of mortal wounds (rounding up).
  • While a model with this ability is performing a Psychic action, other models in the same unit can make ranged attacks without that action failing.


  • Other Rule Changes
  • Icon of Flame: At the start of your Psychic phase, gain 1 Arcane Surge. Once per phase, you can spend a Arcane Surge to fuel this icon; if you do, roll one D6. On a 4-5, the closest enemy unit within 6" of and visible to the bearer suffers 1 mortal wound. On a 6, the closest enemy unit within 12" of and visible to the bearer suffers 1 mortal wound.
  • Icon of Sorcery: Each time you take a Psychic test for the bearer's unit, if you did not spend any Arcane Surges on that test, add 2 to the result.
  • New Stratagem allows a SORCERER to kill THOUSAND SONS CULTISTS in exchange for a free Arcane Surge.
  • Thousand Sons Chaos Spawn count as PSYKERS for the purposes of generating Arcane Surges, since they're mutant sorcerers; possibly with a range limit, possibly they just each have an "Icon of Flame".
  • Each Cult has its own ways of getting Arcane Surges, and special ways of using them.
  • All Thousand Sons psychic powers come with impressive bonus effects if you roll high enough on the psychic test, or roll a double/triple, just like Smite, to encourage being risky.
  • The Flesh Change Stratagem works on Aspiring Sorcerers, and can be used in response to Perils; the power manifests normally, but you lose the PSYKER and gain a Spawn. It costs 0CP if you rolled a triple.


  • Example Thousand Sons Psychic Powers
    Raw Test Scaling
    Spoiler:
    Tzeentch's Firestorm
    Witchfire: Tzeentch’s Firestorm has a warp charge value of 2. If manifested, select one enemy unit that is within 18" of and visible to the PSYKER. Roll a number of D6s equal to the result of the Psychic test; for each roll of 6, the selected unit suffers 1 mortal wound.


    Boon of Mutation
    Blessing: Boon of Mutation has a warp charge value of 3. If manifested, select one friendly THOUSAND SONS CHARACTER (excluding DAEMON CHARACTERS) within 3" of the PSYKER. Select one effect from the Boon of Tzeentch Stratagem (excluding The Eye Opens) as if you had rolled any result on the chart for that Stratagem lower than the result of the Psychic test. The selected CHARACTER receives that effect until the end of the game.

    Doubles/Triples Boost
    Spoiler:
    Time Flux
    Blessing: Time Flux has a warp charge value of 5. If manifested, select one friendly THOUSAND SONS CORE unit within 6" of the PSYKER, and one of the following effects:
  • One model in the selected unit regains up to D3 lost wounds.
  • One destroyed model is returned to the selected unit with all of its wounds remaining.


  • If you rolled any doubles on the Psychic test, after resolving the effects of this power you can then immediately manifest its effects a second time; you may select a different target and/or effect, or the same target and/or effect. If you rolled any triples on the Psychic test, the range of this power is doubled, and you can manifest its effects a third time.


    Astral Blast
    Witchfire: Astral Blast has a warp charge value of 6. If manifested, select one point on the battlefield within 12" of and visible to this psyker. Roll one D6 for each enemy unit within 3" of that point; on a 3+, that unit suffers 1 mortal wound.

    If you rolled any doubles on the Psychic test, roll two additional D6s for each targeted enemy unit. If you rolled any triples on the Psychic test, both ranges of this power are doubled.

    Standard "Tier" Boost
    Spoiler:
    Warp Reality
    Malediction: Warp Reality has a warp charge value of 6. If manifested, select one terrain feature within 18" of this PSYKER, then select one enemy unit within 3" of that terrain feature. Until the start of your next Psychic phase:
  • Halve the selected unit’s Move characteristic (rounding up).
  • Subtract 1 from Advance rolls and charge rolls made for the selected unit.


  • If the result of the Psychic test was 11 or more, you can instead select any number of enemy units within 3" of that terrain feature.


    Psychic Delve
    Malediction: Psychic Delve has a warp charge value of 6. If manifested, select one enemy unit within 18" of this psyker. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, when resolving an attack made against that unit by a friendly THOUSAND SONS unit, re-roll a wound roll of 1.

    If the result of the Psychic test was 11 or more, when resolving an attack made against that unit by a friendly THOUSAND SONS unit, you can re-roll the wound roll.

    Modular Boost
    Spoiler:
    Glamour of Tzeentch
    Blessing: Glamour of Tzeentch has a warp charge value of 4. If manifested, select one friendly THOUSAND SONS unit within 12" of this PSYKER. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, each time a ranged attack targets the selected unit, if the attacker is more than 18" away, the selected unit is treated as having the benefits of Dense Cover against that attack.

    For every 3 points by which the result of the Psychic test exceeded the warp charge value of this power, you can select one of the following:
  • The selected unit is treated as having the benefits of Dense Cover regardless of how far away the attacker is, and these benefits also apply against melee attacks.
  • Each time an attack targets the selected unit, if the selected unit has the benefits of Dense Cover against that attack, it also has the benefits of Light Cover and Heavy Cover against that attack.
  • Each time an enemy unit declares a charge against the selected unit, subtract 2 from the result of the charge roll.

  • Seeded Strategy
    Blessing: Seeded Strategy has a warp charge value of 5. If manifested, select one friendly THOUSAND SONS CORE unit within 3" of this PSYKER. Until the end of the turn, the selected unit counts as having Remained Stationary in your previous Movement phase.

    For every 3 points by which the result of the Psychic test exceeded the warp charge value of this power, you can select one of the following:
  • Select one friendly THOUSAND SONS unit within 24" of this PSYKER instead.
  • The selected unit immediately shoots as if it were your Shooting phase, then makes a Normal Move as if it were your Movement phase. It cannot shoot or move again this turn.
  • Until the end of the turn, you can re-roll charge rolls made for the selected unit.
  • This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/06/22 16:41:46


     
       
    Made in gb
    Lord of the Fleet






    London

    It doesn't really cover the main issue of the TS powers, in that they're still limited to attempting to cast each power once per phase, and still suffer the Smite increase. In fact the Smite increase is even worse now as you're adding 1 for every Surge used as well as the standard +1 for each attempt.

    I like the premise, I think the powers themselves need refining however to make them more of a threat. Make us want to use powers other than Glamour and Weaver. In addition, given how the general killy-ness of the game is increasing, what's the problem with us having our D3 Smites back?
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




     Valkyrie wrote:
    It doesn't really cover the main issue of the TS powers, in that they're still limited to attempting to cast each power once per phase, and still suffer the Smite increase. In fact the Smite increase is even worse now as you're adding 1 for every Surge used as well as the standard +1 for each attempt.
    You've actually got the Smite increase backwards; Prosperine Lore means you're not adding 1 to the warp charge value, you're adding 1 to the Psychic test. It's a direct counter to the Smite charge increase. It's, uh, actually completely busted, now that I look at it again; two Sorcerers and three Aspiring Sorcerers give you 8 Arcane Surges in a phase, meaning you can have your two Sorcerers cast all their powers on 3D6, then have your Aspiring Sorcerers cast Smite at D6+8. That's ludicrous, and I'll need to ditch/replace it. It'd be fine if it only counted those Arcane Surges you spent on Smite, but that starts looking even more fiddly.

    It might work better to import my old Blood Ravens ability:
    Each time this model attempts to manifest the Smite psychic power and fails its Psychic test with a result of 5 or more, the power is successfully manifested instead. When manifested in this way, the Smite power inflicts 1 mortal wound instead of D3, or D3 mortal wounds if the result of the Psychic test was 11 or more.

    I personally feel like the Smite increase is a solution looking for a problem, at this point; no-one uses enough PSYKERS for it to be relevant except for the armies that are literally nothing but PSYKERS, who need to be able to bypass it anyway, somehow.

    Either you're not using PSYKERS (most armies), you're using 1-2 PSYKER CHARACTERS as a flexible but unreliable source of buffs/debuffs because that's more useful than Smite (SM, CSM, DG, Orks, GSC), or you're flooded with PSYKER units by the nature of your army, meaning you're literally built around the idea of Smite spam and therefore need some kind of exemption (TS, GK, Tzeentch Daemons).

    The exceptions are Craftworld Eldar, who have lots of (optional) PSYKERS but... also have much better things to do with them than Smite, because their powers are great, and Tyranids, who were a real Smite-spam problem thanks to Flyrants. That could probably be solved just by making the Hivemind Discipline more attractive, or even by stripping them of Smite; it's not like Hive Tyrants are known for mindlasers to begin with.

     Valkyrie wrote:

    I like the premise, I think the powers themselves need refining however to make them more of a threat. Make us want to use powers other than Glamour and Weaver. In addition, given how the general killy-ness of the game is increasing, what's the problem with us having our D3 Smites back?

    As far as banning multiple uses of the same power each turn... I like that it encourages variety, even if I'd also like stronger internal balance on powers. Personally, I'd suggest two changes:
  • If you fail to manifest a power (through Deny or Perils or a bad roll), it doesn't count and another model can try again.
  • If you manifest every power in a Discipline, you can start repeating powers in that Discipline.


  • A lot of the restrictiveness of the no-repeats rule rests on the faction. At the moment, a mono-Chapter Space Marine army has up to 18 different psychic powers it can manifest, not including Smite. Tyranids only have 7, despite having far more PSYKERS, so they're hitting Smite-only much sooner. Eldar have 24, and they're not even faction-locked. Chaos Space Marines have 13-15.

    Thousand Sons have 13, +1 per extra Detachment for Cults - it's not hugely impressive for an army where almost every unit is a PSYKER. So, yeah, they either need easier access to a wider variety of powers, or the ability to repeat powers under certain conditions.

    That could be an army-wide rule, or it could be baked into the discipline itself; Eldar can treat Conceal/Reveal as different powers, for example, so why not allow the Thousand Sons to have a Discipline that changes its powers to allow re-use? Maybe each power has 6 potential effects, depending on which other power you last tried to manifest?
       
    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    I agree that psyker heavy armies like thousand sons should have access to a wider variety of powers than they do now.

    I wonder if it would improve things if they simply had more viable options than they currently do, so that smite spam wasn’t seen as necessary.

    What if like to see is something along the lines of 18 or 24 psychic powers available to TSs, in addition to smite.

    The powers would be divided into disciplines of 6 as is the norm, but unlike other armies where a psyker can pick one or two powers from their chosen discipline, I’d let a TS psyker have access to all 6 powers in their discipline in addition to smite.

    Other limitations on powers would still apply ( number you can cast per turn, and not repeating the same power other than smite).

    This would allow a lot more flexibility on the battlefield as you could chose the best power out of 7 options based on the situation. It might see an increase in the use of powers that never get used because they’re only useful rarely, but you would now have them available if the appropriate circumstances come up.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/27 11:34:36


     
       
     
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