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Was thinking about how we are going to be able to buff Custodes and knights in 9th, and if they want to have any chance of getting objective points, they need a buff to Obsec. This would instantly make Knights a good choice again, and give Custodes a niche for stealing objectives away from hordier armies. If each Warden counted as 3 models for Obsec, it would take 10 models with obsec to take the objective from a unit of 3 wardens. Vehicles are a lot tougher to do, but I think 5 is good, maybe 7ish for knights or Monstrous units?

What about based on wounds, that or wounds remaining?

First thing to clarify.... are you making these suggestions specific to Custodes and Knights, or across the board? I feel this is a very Custodes/Imperial Knights/Chaos Knights specific problem. In which case, I imagine giving them an appropriate ObSec related ability/rule for their battle-forged detachments would make sense. Giving Elites and Vehicles ObSec - and having them count more for this purpose - would really defeat the purpose of the rule in the first place - which is to give a niche and role for Troop choices.

I'd love my Leman Russ tanks counting as 5 models when I take them in Spearheads.

a squad of 10 deffskull meganobs counting as 30 models for objsec? Sounds good to me!

I do agree that it would be good to see models counted higher depending on their capabilities. I wouldn't want it tied to their slot as, for example, 10 flashgits (multi-wound models with 4+ saves) in a heavy support slot aren't going to count as less than 10 tankbustas (boy stats) in an elites slot.

I'd limit it to walkers, as a walker can reasonably take an objective, vehicles should be trying to block them rather than hold them. Perhaps if a vehicle is parked directly on top of an objective, they always count as the same number of models as the opponents within 3", meaning it always ties - no-one's using it if there's a tank on top of it!

Making walkers count as 5 and bulky models count as 2 would be a good way to make this work.

mr. peasant wrote:
First thing to clarify.... are you making these suggestions specific to Custodes and Knights, or across the board? I feel this is a very Custodes/Imperial Knights/Chaos Knights specific problem. In which case, I imagine giving them an appropriate ObSec related ability/rule for their battle-forged detachments would make sense. Giving Elites and Vehicles ObSec - and having them count more for this purpose - would really defeat the purpose of the rule in the first place - which is to give a niche and role for Troop choices.

This. Giving it to vehicles in general would probably be okay. Giving it to custodes units specifically would probably be okay. But drukhari mandrakes and IG ratlings probably shouldn't be especially good at holding an objective. And if you wanted to give an ability like this to a unit that doesn't already have obsec, giving it obsec would probably be a bigger buff anyway.

So units I would consider giving this rule to would need to be units that already have access to obsec and which seem sufficiently "elite" to warrant such a bonus thematically. Maybe units like dire avengers and immortals who have similar-but-scrawnier counterparts in the troop slot? (Guardians and warriors respectively.)

In fairness, now that I think about it, isn't objective secured enough for the elite units? They have the benefit of being generally better units than troops, but still have the ability to push troops off objectives if they outnumber them.

But why give Objective Secured to Elite units? Am I not mistaken that the original purpose of introducing the ability in the first place was to promote and give people reason to take Troop choices? Giving the ability to Elite units would defeat this purpose.

mr. peasant wrote:
But why give Objective Secured to Elite units? Am I not mistaken that the original purpose of introducing the ability in the first place was to promote and give people reason to take Troop choices? Giving the ability to Elite units would defeat this purpose.

Some already have it. Death skull orks, for example.

I wonder if giving them both objsec and counting as multiples might be a step too far, and make troops even less effective!

 some bloke wrote:

mr. peasant wrote:
But why give Objective Secured to Elite units? Am I not mistaken that the original purpose of introducing the ability in the first place was to promote and give people reason to take Troop choices? Giving the ability to Elite units would defeat this purpose.

Some already have it. Death skull orks, for example.

I wonder if giving them both objsec and counting as multiples might be a step too far, and make troops even less effective!

Some, not all. And those who do have it are in the minority. I suspect making it blanket across all Elite choices would not be the right call. Thematically, I feel it wouldn't make sense (insofar as making it a universal rule for all Elite units) since elite units have never really been the ones to hold ground. Navy SEALs don't hold ground, you deploy the regular army for that.

Original suggestion is terrible if spread across the factions. Elite armies in general are already too powerful and I'd like to see a boost to humble troops instead.

Can be ok for Custodes and Knights specifically though. Maybe for Knights only as Custodes don't seem to be in a spot actually, despite having a previous edition codex.

What if instead we had a stratagem that gives any INFANTRY (or non-VEHICLE if you want diversity to include bikes and such) unit ObSec for the round?

mr. peasant wrote:
But why give Objective Secured to Elite units? Am I not mistaken that the original purpose of introducing the ability in the first place was to promote and give people reason to take Troop choices? Giving the ability to Elite units would defeat this purpose.

Agreed the whole point of Objective Secured is to give troops a primary role to fulfill, which coincidentally is what troops are for. You don't secure an area by sticking a tank on top of it, you actually need some leather-personnel-carriers to secure a position.