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Made in us
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AZ

Is there any examples of someone mixing geneseed? Like let’s say Imperial Fists with Salamanders or something???



 
   
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Chimeric gene-seed was seen in use by certain Blackshield groups during the Horus Heresy and the results were sort of bad. A Chimeric Astarted would maybe be stronger or faster but immensely unstable both physically and mentally which wasn't useful in the long run.
As for the Imperium, the Cursed Founding saw the High Lords order the Mechanicus to tinker with gene-seed to try and improve it and the results are a bit obvious given the nickname of the founding. Certain Chapters like the Black Dragons and Sons of Anateus gained useful mutations such as bone weapons and enhanced strength but most Chapters suffered horrific defects. The Lamenters seem to be cursed with intense bad luck and the Flame Falcons ability to spontaneously combust saw them purged by an overzealous Inquisitor.
Overall mixing and tampering with gene-seed is a big no-no because most people aren't smart enough to do it without consequences.
   
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You can't. Gene seed is a literal organ. Not like a can of man seed. It's a organ that is implanted around the neck. You can mix Genes, which is what I think you are talking about?

But no, not even Cawl is dumb enough to try and much around with the Primarch science.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/03 22:50:33


 
   
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GW stuff has totally mental ideas about genetics and how it is supposed to work, so I'm sure anything is possible in their world.

   
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It’s worth noting that no Astartes is actually implanted with Geneseed.

Geneseed is the product of the Progenoid Gland. It’s collected, and used to culture the various organs that are implanted at the various stages of turning a man into an Astartes.

So the question here should really be can you create an Astartes by mixing and matching the necessary organs cultured from different Geneseed.

It certainly seems possible, given the Iron Warriors have done so with pilfered Imperial Fist Geneseed.

   
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Depending on the source, there are some suggestions the Minotaurs use world Eater and Iron Warriors geneseed. They're all but confirmed as loyalist Iron Warriors anyway.

Another example is allegedly, the Charcharadons who supposedly use Raven Guard, possibly Night Lord and maybe World Eater gene seed.

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When did Minotaurs get confirmed as IW lineage?
And as for the Carcharadons, they are Raven Guard lineage but with some different mutations in their gene-seed. They keep the pale skin but get pitch black eyes as well.
The rage they suffer from is definitely psychological rather than artificially generated from the Butchers Nails like the WE. Also, during the Great Crusade the Raven Guard also operated Nomad Predation fleets.
   
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The Iron Warriors Warsmith Honsou was created with a combination of Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists geneseed, which is why he's known as the "Half-Breed". Heretic Astartes often use stolen loyalist geneseed to create new Astartes, it's possible they mix it with their own in this way.
   
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I always thought he was called half-breed because he had Fists gene-seed but was in the Iron Warriors Legion. He wore the colours but would never be one of them kinda deal.
   
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 Gert wrote:
When did Minotaurs get confirmed as IW lineage?
And as for the Carcharadons, they are Raven Guard lineage but with some different mutations in their gene-seed. They keep the pale skin but get pitch black eyes as well.
The rage they suffer from is definitely psychological rather than artificially generated from the Butchers Nails like the WE. Also, during the Great Crusade the Raven Guard also operated Nomad Predation fleets.
It was a post several years ago by the playtester whose Minotaurs army was the basis for the rules in the Badab War books. He spoke in the nuance that Bligh always put into his writing that was designed to point in a direction but leave plenty of room for other interpretations.
The idea being that there were two Minotaurs chapters, the old red and yellow one that died out for... reasons, and the bronze one. That the bronze one had IW geneseed and the red and yellow had something else, possibly WE. And that when the AdMech was testing, they grouped the two same named chapters together and concluded that it was some kind of chimeric geneseed.

As for the Carcharodons, they suffer from Ash Blindness, which was a known condition in the Raven Guard legion. That's what causes their eyes to go fully black. Sure, there might be something else mixed in that's possibly triggering it for all of them, but they are definitely Raven Guard, even if they don't wish to remember it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/04 13:27:37


 
   
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Spoiler:
jareddm wrote:
It was a post several years ago by the playtester whose Minotaurs army was the basis for the rules in the Badab War books. He spoke in the nuance that Bligh always put into his writing that was designed to point in a direction but leave plenty of room for other interpretations.
The idea being that there were two Minotaurs chapters, the old red and yellow one that died out for... reasons, and the bronze one. That the bronze one had IW geneseed and the red and yellow had something else, possibly WE. And that when the AdMech was testing, they grouped the two same named chapters together and concluded that it was done kind of chimeric geneseed.

As for the Carcharodons, they suffer from Ash Blindness, which was a known condition in the Raven Guard legion. That's what causes their eyes to go fully black.

In the nicest way possible, I wouldn't use that as a reference.
We can theorise with a fair degree of accuracy using evidence found in BL and FW publications that the Carcharadons are Raven Guard Successors but a post on a forum by someone who says their army was the inspiration for the FW Chapter is a source I am not inclined to count as valid.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/04 13:28:46


 
   
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 Gert wrote:
I always thought he was called half-breed because he had Fists gene-seed but was in the Iron Warriors Legion. He wore the colours but would never be one of them kinda deal.
Some of his gene-seed cam from an Iron Warriors Apothecary called "Honourable" Soulaka but Fabius Bile fiddled with it, including Imperial Fist stuff.
   
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Aw, I kinda hate that. I thought it was better when it was just a fancy insult about having the IF gene-seed in IW colours.
   
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 Gert wrote:
Spoiler:
jareddm wrote:
It was a post several years ago by the playtester whose Minotaurs army was the basis for the rules in the Badab War books. He spoke in the nuance that Bligh always put into his writing that was designed to point in a direction but leave plenty of room for other interpretations.
The idea being that there were two Minotaurs chapters, the old red and yellow one that died out for... reasons, and the bronze one. That the bronze one had IW geneseed and the red and yellow had something else, possibly WE. And that when the AdMech was testing, they grouped the two same named chapters together and concluded that it was done kind of chimeric geneseed.

As for the Carcharodons, they suffer from Ash Blindness, which was a known condition in the Raven Guard legion. That's what causes their eyes to go fully black.

In the nicest way possible, I wouldn't use that as a reference.
We can theorise with a fair degree of accuracy using evidence found in BL and FW publications that the Carcharadons are Raven Guard Successors but a post on a forum by someone who says their army was the inspiration for the FW Chapter is a source I am not inclined to count as valid.
To be fair his name is credited in the book, was backed up by another playtester and was from 2015, several years before Bligh died, so it's not like there was something from after the fact.
   
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I recall the Imperium requesting (or even just the Ad-Mech without the request) tinkering with geneseeds in an attempt to make better Astartes. This was before Primaris, and I believe nearly all their results were failures.

I'm sure Crawl tinkered with mixing geneseeds as well. He even asked RG to let him use traitor geneseed, with the predictable answer.
   
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Jarms48 wrote:
I'm sure Crawl tinkered with mixing geneseeds as well. He even asked RG to let him use traitor geneseed, with the predictable answer.
I'd say it's important to note that Cawl did not ask this. Cawl Inferior did. We learn in The Great Work that Cawl himself is surprisingly ignorant of what Cawl Inferior has been up to.
   
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jareddm wrote:
Jarms48 wrote:
I'm sure Crawl tinkered with mixing geneseeds as well. He even asked RG to let him use traitor geneseed, with the predictable answer.
I'd say it's important to note that Cawl did not ask this. Cawl Inferior did. We learn in The Great Work that Cawl himself is surprisingly ignorant of what Cawl Inferior has been up to.


that'd be an intreasting thing to see followed through on, if Cawl inferior goes rogue and CAWL has to defeat it

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 Gert wrote:
I always thought he was called half-breed because he had Fists gene-seed but was in the Iron Warriors Legion. He wore the colours but would never be one of them kinda deal.


If you read Rites of Initiation or Origins of the Legiones Astartes, which it’s based on, you see that mixing gene seed is very common. The Rites article can be read for free on warhammer community.

The rites article says that a progenoid contains 20 separate “gene-seeds,” one for each organ (two for progenoids). It also says that when making a new chapter, the priests select one gene seed for each organ, enough to make a single marine, from their huge banks of gene seed samples. Then they duplicate it so they have a thousand direct descendants from that one original set.

If you had only one marine, a totally ordinary ultramarine, and you wanted to extract his one remaining progenoid to make a new marine, you can see all all the problems you might have. You might have one gene-seed that had DNA duplication errors and doesn’t develop right. It could have problems when being cultured, like transcription errors, or someone accidentally sticks their elbow in the Petri dish. You’d be missing potentially a very important organ like the ossmodula, lyman’s ear, or black carapace, and simply let not be able to make a marine. You’d have to get a substitute organ from a different donor.

For this reasons, every marine would have to be somewhat mixed. The Ultramarines would have to withdraw the most viable zygotes from their stores, without regard for whether they came from the same donor. They’d probably also have to culture seven sets of organs if they’re implanting six aspirants. In this way each Ultramarine is “mixed” from several previous ultramarines.

But obviously chaos marines’ gene seeds mutate at much higher rates, have less reliable procedures, and less stable storage facilities. So while their intention is to make a new total Iron Warrior, they’d have to use spare parts very frequently. Imperial Fists don’t have a Sus-an membrane or betcher’s gland, but there’s a good chance Honsou would have one or both because he has an Iron Warrior organ in that spot.

I have been told there is something different about what happened to Honsou specifically, eg a vial fell off a shelf and spilled into another vial. Sounds dumb to me.
   
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AZ

So potentially could you combine three or four different chapters genes???

I’m a little confused on how some users say no but others say it happens a lot.



 
   
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Biloxi, MS USA

usmcmidn wrote:
So potentially could you combine three or four different chapters genes???

I’m a little confused on how some users say no but others say it happens a lot.


You could technically take each implant organ from a different Chapter/Legion. As long as the Marines survive the process of implantation, you could have a Chapter with no technical genetic Precursor Chapter.

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It’s been in multiple Index Astartes articles, and recently in Fabius Bile, Clonelord. In clonelord bile assesses some loyalist gene seed and says it has markers from multiple [primarchs?]. When people are saying it’s not possible they aren’t referring to anything real.

IA: Renegades wrote:Though the particulars of a new Founding are shrouded in secrecy and arcane ritual, it is known that all of a new chapter's genetic make-up is not always drawn from the seed of one donor chapter. Instead, a new chapter may represent a genetic cocktail of the geneseed of others, and although purity testing is rigorous in the extreme, it is perfectly possible that these disparate elements may react with one another at a later date, in ways quite unforeseeable by their creators, and so the seed of a disastrous mutation or character flaw is sown.


IA: Relictors wrote: The source of the Relictors' geneseed is largely based on gene stock taken from the laboratorium on Mars and is thought to be composed of that grown from the Ultramarine and Dark Angels. If this is the case, then it would appear that the High Lords of Terra's reluctance to sanction the use of Dark Angel's geneseed in the creation of new Chapters has relaxed somewhat. There are no recorded instances of unacceptable mutation in the Relictors' geneseed, though given their close working with the powers of the Warp, the Apothecaries and Librarians maintain close watch on the purity of their Battle Brothers for any signs of aberration. It is rumoured that those zygotes that display mutation are allowed to mature before implantation into a host organism in order that the Apothecaries might better study the workings of Chaos on the flesh and how to defeat it.
   
 
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