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Not a rules question, but this seemed the best place for it.

In the interests of having some actual data on which people can base their opinion of the wargear book, I'm trying to compile a list of all of the errors and rules changes in the book.

I say 'trying' because I really don't have time to sit down and troll through all of the codexes myself just now... so I'm asking for a little help from anyone interested.

I have a list of all of the errors and changes I have come across so far here: http://www.underthecouch.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29

If you know of any more, please feel free to jot them down either over there or here.


Cheers,

How crazy are you going to go on documenting things that should have been updated for 4th edition (like the Dark Eldar Combat Drug reference). Because there are quite a few (subjective) items that could be included. A couple of the bigger ones are:

*Bedlam Staff still uses the old Thunder hammer reference of forcing a model not to attack until the "end of the next assault phase" (whatever that means).
*Chronometron still stays that you roll two dice to determine how far they can make a sweeping advance.
*And, of course, most of the Tau stuff has been changed and the new stuff is missing.


Also, there have been a whole bunch of minor little changes, like the Jump Pack and Jet Pack entries now referencing the correct page numbers of the new rulebook. Do you want little nit-picky changes like that?

I know one changed entry you missed is the Ork Kustom Force Field (it now says "obscured" instead of "hull down").


Lastly, a weapon/wargear that are missing are:

*The Doom Siren's (much debated) special rules. The Doom Siren's stats are included in the Chaos summary, but nothing else.



I did this with just a skim, so I'll probably try to take a closer look some other time.

Bedlam Staff probably can't be taken as an error at the moment, since it doesn't specifically state that it uses the Thunder Hammer rules... they just happen to be the same. So still badly written, but the same as the codex.

Edit: Forgot the answer the question
Stuff that should have been updated is worth noting... It might be interesting to send this in to GW when it's complete, to see if we can get some of this fixed for the next printing (assuming they go with the rumoured plan of updating this book every year or two to accomodate new Codexes.)

Jet Packs are superceded by the Tau Empire codex, although the addition of the page reference to the Jump Pack entry is probably worth a note for the sake of completeness. In the same vein, yes, nit-picky stuff is fine... I'd like to make the list as complete as possible.


Thanks for those couple, though. I have updated the list.

Okay. Let's do this Alphabetically. First up is the Armageddon codex. I'm going to ignore the Steel Legion, Salamanders and Black Templars (since they've all been replaced).

Armageddon Codex: Kult of Speed

Ommitted:
*All KoS vehicle upgrades (Krusher, Armoured Top & Force Field). It's a little strange because the Wargear book has the entries for Outriders, Outrider Nobs, Deth Koptas and Deth Kopta Meks in the Ork summary, but none of the KoS vehicle upgrades.


Blood Angels Codex

Updated:
*Death Mask. Name changed to "Blood Angels Death Mask". Otherwise unchanged.

*Grail. It now causes units that wipe out their opponent in combat to move 2D6" for their consolidation. It used to cause units to roll and extra die and discard the lowest when rolling to see how far they advanced after winning close combat.

*Over-Charged Engine (vehicle upgrade). The reference to a difficult terrain check is replaced with a dangerous terrain check (which requires 2D6 to be rolled if the vehicle moves more than 6" through cover). Also, the reference to Blood Angels being able to disembark even if the vehicle has moved over 12" has been removed.



Next up (a doozy): Chaos Space Marines.

Excellent. Thanks for those.

I have updated the list, and added some more from Guard and Witch Hunters.

In my alphabetical Codex quest I ignored Black Templars last time because I assumed they would be completely correct in the Wargear book since they were the last codex released before the Wargear book was put out. . .but I was wrong.

 

Black Templar Codex

Rules Change?:
*The Sacred Standard in the BT codex says it "replaces" the effects of the Fighting Company Banner, while the Wargear book says it "functions as" a Fighting Company standard.

Chaos Codex (all taken vs. a 1st Printing of the Chaos Codex)

Rules Changes:
*Great Weapon changed to "Chaos Great Weapon."
*Combi-bolter changed to "Chaos Combi-bolter."
*Daemon Flight updated with new rulebook page #.
*Daemon Steed updated with new rulebook page #.
*Daemonic Speed updated with new rulebook page #.
*The Bezerker Glaive cannot be used with special movement modes.
*Havoc Launcher (vehicle upgrade) entry removed rules about placing multiple blasts to calculate hits before rolling to wound (because those rules are different in 4th edition).
*Living Vehicle (vehicle upgrade) entry updated reference so that the opponent chooses whether the upgrade is removed on a weapon destroyed result as opposed to the owning player.
*Nurgling Infestation clarified that attacks exactly as if being made by a Nurgling base--implying that they do not ignore armor saves even if the character does.
*Nurgle's Rot updated so that followers are immune.
*Blasted Standard clarified that it also counts as a summoning Icon. 
*Thrall Wizard updated so that the psychic test is passed automatically. 

Omitted:
*Master Crafted Weapon isn't listed as a Chaos item.
*The Pintle Combi-bolter entry (vehicle upgrade) is missing the points cost for the melta/flamer upgrade, which is only listed in that entry in the codex.
*No psychic powers are included anywhere in the Wargear Book for any race (this is obviously intentional). With that in mind, the only item missing from the "Psychic Equipment" section is the Familiar (Warp Talisman is included).

Summary Change:

*The famous Obliterator Toughness change.

 

General Change

*Searchlight entry combined for all races, and changed/clarified so that only the target of the unit's shooting may be illuminated.

 

That's all for now. You really may want to start organizing the "rules changes" section into race specific categories before it becomes to large to sort through.

 

Moving right along:


Craftworld Eldar codex

Summary Error:
*Black Defender and Storm Guardians are just listed as "Defender Squad" and "Storm Squad" on the summary page.


Dark Angels codex (second edition)

Summary Omission:
*Ravenwing Attack Bike is not listed in the summary. The FAQ doesn't specify that the Ravenwing Attack Bike should use the new Space Marine Attack Bike stats, so it should have its own profile listed.




Next up:  Daemonhunters.

You really may want to start organizing the "rules changes" section into race specific categories before it becomes to large to sort through.

Done.

And updated once again. Thanks.

Here we go with the Daemonhunter and Dark Eldar (v2) codexes. I'm not sure how you want to organize the "multi-army" changes. . .that section may start to get unwieldy too. . .I kept the Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer and Haywire Grenade entries out of the multi-army changes since they only apply (essentially) to two armies. Obviously feel free to dump them into different sections as you see fit.


MULTI-ARMY CHANGES

*(Space Marines/DH/WH/Imperial Guard) Force Weapons: combined entry, using the standard rulebook definition.
*(Space Marines/DH) Lightning Claws: combined entry, using standard rulebook definition.
*(DH/WH/Imperial Guard) Eviscerator; combined entry: it is treated as a ?Powerfist? with 2D6 penetration against vehicles instead of a ?Chainfist? (no real difference, just semantics).
*(DH/WH/Space Marine) Psychic Hood; combined entry: clarifies that only one psychic hood may be used per power. However, the SM codex wording was left at the end of the entry: ?Only one Librarian may use his psychic hood. . .? making application of the rule to non-Librarians questionable.
*(Space Marines/DH/WH/Imperial Guard) Hunter Killer Missile (vehicle upgrade): Combined entry; clarified as a main weapon and that the vehicle's Ballistic Skill is used to fire it.
*(Space Marines/DH/WH/Imperial Guard) Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter (vehicle upgrade): Combined entry from the SM codex; clarified as a defensive weapon.
 
DAEMONHUNTER CODEX

Format Errors:
*Artificer Armor not listed as Inquisitorial.
*Auspex not listed as Inquisitorial.

Summary Omission:
*Grey Knight Dreadnought stats missing from Summary.

Rules Changes:
*"One Per Army" restriction removed from wargear entries (the restriction is also found in the codex?s armory, so it was redundant anyway).
*Storm Shield; uses the SM codex wording: removes the one opponent restriction and clarifies that a model with a Storm Shield may never get the +1A bonus for having two weapons in close combat.
*Terminator Armor: updated wording to ?Sweeping Advance? instead of ?Advance?.
*Thunder Hammer: uses the SM Codex/rulebook wording: changes ?may not attack until the end of the next Assault phase? to ?will attack with an Initiative of 1 in the next Assault phase.?
*Blessed (vehicle upgrade): updated with rules on how Dreadnoughts use the ?Aegis? ability.

DARK ELDAR CODEX (2ND EDITION)

Rules Changes:
*Crucible of Malediction: "One Per Army" restriction removed (the restriction is also found in the codex?s armory, so it was redundant anyway).
*(Eldar/Dark Eldar) Haywire Grenade; combined entry: updated 4th edition wording to reflect the fact that grenades may always be used against vehicles with a WS on a ?to hit? roll of ?6? (and a ?4+? if the vehicle is stunned or immobilized).

Cheers... I'll get these sorted and added on later today. Haven't had time to get back to this myself, as I've been frantically trying to finish off a couple of commissions. So thanks again for your work here...

Next up in the alphabetical codex march. . .

I didn't include any of the IG rules changes that were covered in the multi-army changes I already submitted.

 

ELDAR CODEX<?

 

Rules Changes:

*Eldar Jetbike entry completely references the Eldar Jetbike rules from the rulebook.

*(Eldar/Dark Eldar) Haywire Grenade; combined entry: updated 4th edition wording to reflect the fact that grenades may always be used against vehicles with a WS on a ?to hit? roll of ?6? (and a ?4+? if the vehicle is stunned or immobilized).

 

Summary Errors:

*Plasma Missile isn?t listed as having a Pinning effect in the summary and there is no entry in the Wargear section with additional rules.

 

Missing Items:

*Pulse Laser entry is missing and its statline is not included on the summary either.

 

Other Issues:

*Mandiblaster casualty removal rules: ?Note that since mandiblaster casualties count as close combat casualties, a Striking Scorpion who starts the combat in base contact with the enemy will get their full number of Attacks, even if the model they are in base contact with is removed by mandiblaster fire?  contradict the 4^th edition Assault rules. The new rules dictate that a model who is not engaged at the particular Initiative step he would strike at does not get to make their Attacks.

*Warp Spider Jump Generator rules still mentions that a unit ?advances and falls back 3D6 [inches]?.

 

 

EYE OF TERROR CODEX

 

SPACE WOLVES 13^TH COMPANY

 

Missing Items:

*Mark of the Wulfen (the 13^th Company version) is not included in the Wargear Book.

 

Summary Errors:

*Storm Claw Biker Pack Leader statline missing from Summary.

 

The Lost and the Damned

 

Summary Errors:

*Chaos Hound and Spawn statlines missing from Summary. Although these statlines can be found in the Wargear section (as they are picked as such in the Chaos codex), since they are full units in the Lost and the Damned, their statlines should be included in the summary.

 

Ulthwe Strike Force

 

Missing Items:

*Wraithgate and Waystones are missing from the Wargear section.

 

 

 

IMPERIAL GUARD CODEX

 

Format Errors:

*Company Standard entry has an extra parenthesis: ?Units of Imperial guard infantry (not including Conscripts), Enginseers, Ogryns, Ratlings or Storm Troopers) with a model. . .?

 

Rules Errors:

*Servitor: Technical Servitors references the Servo-arm entry, but the rules for Enginseers to fix vehicles is found in their codex entry (?Blessing of the Machine-God?), not in their Servo-Arm entry. In addition, the Servo-Arm entry found in the Wargear book is not labeled as being for Imperial Guard, and only references Techmarines.

 

Missing Items:

*Servo-Arm and Signnum entries for Imperial Guard Enginseers are missing. The entries in the Wargear book are not labeled as being used by the Imperial Guard and only reference Techmarines (not Enginseers).

*Servitor points values removed from their entry and their points values are not included in the codex anywhere else.

*All vehicle upgrades unique to the Imperial Guard are missing (Armoured Crew Compartment, Mine Sweeper, Improved Comms, Rough Terrain Modification and Track Guards).

 

Rules Changes:

*Hellhound statline fixed from the codex.

 

 

All updated again... It's turning into quite a list, although the actual number of errors has remained surprisingly low, particularly given the amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth when the book was released.


A couple of points:

Servitor: Technical Servitors references the Servo-arm entry, but the rules for Enginseers to fix vehicles is found in their codex entry (?Blessing of the Machine-God?), not in their Servo-Arm entry. In addition, the Servo-Arm entry found in the Wargear book is not labeled as being for Imperial Guard, and only references Techmarines.

I have actually included this one as a multi-army change, rather than an error. Previously, the Servo Arm bestowed an attack, and the repair ability came from the Blessing of the Omnisiah.

What they appear to have attempted to do is combine the Blessing and Servo Arm entries into Servo Arm entry... but they forgot to update the Servo Arm entry to refer to anyone other than Techmarines.

If you assume (since the Tech Servitor entry references it) that the Servo Arm entry is supposed to apply to both Techmarines and Techpriests, all is well.


I have also noted that the Servitors are only listed for Guard, although the Tech Servitor entry refers to Techmarines.

I also haven't included the Servitor points values as an error, since it would appear to be merely an attempt to keep points values out of the Wargear book, rather than an accidental ommission.

I have actually included this one as a multi-army change, rather than an error. Previously, the Servo Arm bestowed an attack, and the repair ability came from the Blessing of the Omnisiah.

What they appear to have attempted to do is combine the Blessing and Servo Arm entries into Servo Arm entry... but they forgot to update the Servo Arm entry to refer to anyone other than Techmarines.

If you assume (since the Tech Servitor entry references it) that the Servo Arm entry is supposed to apply to both Techmarines and Techpriests, all is well.

That seems like a good way to present the information. However, if you keep it this way you need to note that both the Signum and the Servo-arm are not listed as being used by the Imperial Guard (SM only). Also, you didn't note the fact that the Signum entry also refers only to Techmarines.

All updated again... It's turning into quite a list, although the actual number of errors has remained surprisingly low, particularly given the amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth when the book was released.

It is quite a list, especially all the changes that were put into the book; and the reason that I feel it is nearly a mandatory purchase for any player who likes to keep abreast of the current rules of the game. Personally, I think errors are nearly inevitable in a compilation of this magnitude. There is simply too many numbers, symbols and entries for something not to get screwed up.

Of course it isn't always easy to tell a mistake apart from a deliberate change. . .but overall I think the book is still a useful resource.


Updates for Necrons, Orks and Space Marines coming soon. . .

However, if you keep it this way you need to note that both the Signum and the Servo-arm are not listed as being used by the Imperial Guard (SM only).

I already had them in the Format Errors section
Added the note about only referring to Techmarines though...

Personally, I think errors are nearly inevitable in a compilation of this magnitude. There is simply too many numbers, symbols and entries for something not to get screwed up.

I agree... to a certain extent. The summary errors are disappointing, since by and large they should have been simply a cut and paste straight from the original codexes. Other than that, though... it's really not a bad effort, and certainly worth it for the updates.

Let's just see if they can lift the standard a little for the Mk2.

<?

 

Getting close to the end now. . .

 

 

NECRON CODEX

 

Rules Changes:

*Gauss Weapons reference to the (old) Hellhound automatic penetration rule removed.

*Destroyer Body references the Jetbike rules from the rulebook.

 

 

ORK CODEX

 

Format Errors:

*Skorcha is spelled ?Scorcha? on the summary.

*Lobba is missing the ?G? in it?s Wargear entry statline (it is correct in the Summary, though).

*Searchlight (vehicle upgrade) not listed as used by Orks.

 

Rules Changes:

*Lobba text regarding guessing range removed from the Wargear entry.

*ZZap Gun entry is updated clarifying that an overheat does no damage if vehicle mounted.

*Red Paint Job (vehicle upgrade) entry has the 3^rd edition rules examples removed and replaced with the following: ?This does not affect the speed it can move and either fire weapons or disembark/embark passengers.?

 

Other Issues:

*Mega Armor entry still says that models in Mega Armor count as being in difficult terrain even during ?advances?.

*Mega Boosta rules for having some models in a unit with Mega Boostas and some models without contradicts the 4^th edition rules, which only allow models in a unit to move as fast as their slowest member.

 

 

 

Multi-Army Changes:

 

*Bionics entry clarifies that it doesn?t work with Feel No Pain.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh so close now. Only Witch Hunters remains after this. I didn?t include the Tau codex as it obviously has completely changed since the Wargear book?s publication.<?

 

 

SPACE WOLVES CODEX

 

Summary Errors:

*Wolf Guard, Wolf Guard Leader & Wolf Scout statlines omitted from the summary.

 

Rules Changes:

*Fang of Morkai entry clarified that it refers to the rules for both the Narthecium and the Reductor.

*Runic Stafr entry clarified that it counts as single-handed close combat weapon.

 

 

TYRANID CODEX

 

Rules Changes:

*Winged entry updated to include a rulebook page #.

 

If the servo-arm can make the repairs that means Iron Warriors will have the ability to fix their vehicles. Is that the case now?

The Chaos Servo Arm rules are located in the Iron Warriors section of the codex, not in the Wargear section so it was not included in the Wargear Book (I considered putting that as a missing item for this list).

The loyalist Servo-Arm is not listed as used by Chaos, so it would be a bit of a stretch to assume that Iron Warriors can attempt to fix their vehicles (although I'd let you do it in a game).

I'd make some sense considering them. Maybe we can convince them to take the ability to fix a vehicle in exchange for having the 01 limit on obliterators again? *chuckles* Maybe not.

I'm just asking because I thought that was a question that might come up.

If the servo-arm can make the repairs that means Iron Warriors will have the ability to fix their vehicles. Is that the case now?

The Iron Warriors Servo Arm already has a repair ability... although it is limited to repairing immobilised vehicles, like the Servo Arm from the 3rd edition Marine dex, while the new Imperial version fixes immobilised or weapon destroyed results.

So yeah, I think it would make sense for it to be combined like all of the other updated and combined items. So I'd go with the Wargear version, despite the lack of a Chaos icon.


SO, I have added those last couple of updates to the list, and included the Servo Arm for Chaos in the Format Errors list and Multi-army Changes list.

<?  

Concluding my participation in the Wargear change/issue compilation, I present to you the Witch Hunter codex (along with a general change to):

 

 

WITCH HUNTER CODEX

 

Format Errors:

*Auspex not listed as being used by Inquisitorial forces. If they do so, the entry has been combined/updated to use the Space Marine Codex Auspex entry.

*Rosarius is not listed as being used by Inquisitorial forces.

 

Summary Errors:

*Psyk-Out Warhead (Orbital Strike) not listed in the summary.

 

Rules Changes:

*Sacred Standard of the Order Militant has the minimum 2,000 point army restriction removed. This restriction is not found anywhere else in the codex.

 

Other Issues:

*Praesidium Protectiva entry still uses the old Storm Shield wording: ?The save may only be used against one opponent per turn.? The 4^th edition close combat rules generally do not differentiate attacks from a single model (unless that model is an independent character).

 

 

MULTI-ARMY RULES CHANGE

 

*The Dozer Blade entry (vehicle upgrade) has been combined and updated making how far the vehicle is going to be moving the important factor.

 

 

 

And that?s it! I can?t say that what I?ve done is 100% exhaustive, but I think it?s pretty darn close.

 

 

Great job on the compilation. This is a good resource. I have one question:

*Thunder Hammer: uses the SM Codex/rulebook wording: changes ?may not attack until the end of the next Assault phase? to ?will attack with an Initiative of 1 in the next Assault phase.?

This one caught my eye since I'm one of the few people on dakka that actually uses a thunder hammer. The Space Marine dex doesn't use the same wording as the rulebook. It states (paraphrase, no dex at work) "will attack after Initiative 1 attacks have been resolved." That is a key difference. I'm wondering which version is used in the Space Marine section, as that would be a notable change from the codex if it uses the rulebook version.

Oops.. I saw this the other day, and forgot to come back and update.

I had most of this last batch already, but have added the other couple. I originally had the Sacred Banner of the Order Militant as an error, rather than a change, as I suspect it was just dropped off along with the '1 per army' restrictions without anyone realising it was important... but that's just my opinion, so it probably more correctly belongs with the changes for now. Edited to suit.

Thanks Yak for all your work on this. I'll have a look at tidying up the list a little when I have a moment, to make it all a little more legible.



Winterman: It uses the Marine Codex wording. I have edited the entry in the list to match.

I hope you guys dont mind, I took the liberty of printing out your combined effort on this with the intention of putting it into my wargear book..?

Question? With all these apparent errors. How useable do you think this book remains as a reference during games?
I used to take it along with me cause I got a little sick of people not knowing their own armies rules well enough to explain to me how their gear worked. Then you end up looking through a non familiar codex trying to find the relevent rules....I guess this was what wargear was supposed to help with. Great idea, just needed some more attention to detail....I kinda gave up on taking the book because of all the talk about inaccuracies bringing the use of it into some dispute.

By the way. You guys did a good job on this. I dont know how you find the time, but I appreciate the effort made.

Question? With all these apparent errors. How useable do you think this book remains as a reference during games?

Still very useful.

The only errors that actually matter are the 'Summary errors' and the 'Rules errors' sections of the list. The missing items are annoying, but there's not really that many of them (I'd suggest just typing yourself up a second page to go with the errors page, that includes the missing items copied from their respective codexes) and the format errors really have no effect on the rules.

So at the end of the day, you have on solid rules error, and a dozen items wrong in (or just missing from) the summaries. Not too shabby given the sheer volume of items in the book, and the swag of updates that it includes.

Oh, and no, I don't mind you printing the list out The whole point of this was to create a usable resource...