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So I have no problem with GW paints, typically I find their paints to be pretty damn good if not better than others, but I absolutely love Valejo, the only problems I've had with them are using their air gold metallic with a brush but that wasn't the products intended use so that's on me.
I was wondering though, because of certain supply issues with my local hobby shops (has been having hard time getting large orders of paint products), if there was a cheat sheet or something for matching GW and Valejo colors.
At the very least I'd like to know if anyone here know what the Valejo Equivalent to Elysian Green in the Citadel Line of paints is, as it's my favorite base green for painting death guard.
Note that the equivalents are 'close' but not an exact match on all colors so if you're mid way through a project you may wish to stick to your original paints if at all possible.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
I’ve found most of the comparison On that chart to be pretty good, except for the Adeptus Battlegrey to Vallejo Heavy Grey… that isn’t approximate… heavy grey is flipping green, not grey…
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Flinty wrote: I’ve found most of the comparison On that chart to be pretty good, except for the Adeptus Battlegrey to Vallejo Heavy Grey… that isn’t approximate… heavy grey is flipping green, not grey…
Vallejo themselves say that VGC Heavy Grey/VMC Russian Uniform is their closest color to Adeptus Battlegrey.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Adeptus battlegrey in the middle, Heavy Grey to the right and VMC London Grey to the left… Heavy Grey is not the closest (pic is a little dull, but heavy grey is clearly not actually grey…)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/07 21:53:21
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
It depends on the method used to determine if the paint matches (I'm assuming they've used a scientific method), and how far you're willing to go to before you decide something is not a match. If viewed in greyscale, I could see Adeptus Battlegrey and Heavy Grey/Russian Uniform being matches.
And all of the VGC Heavy colors are simply rebranded VMC colors. VGC Heavy Grey is the exact same paint as VMC Russian Uniform.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/07 22:57:32
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
If it’s a “scientific” method, then it needs some serious human oversight. In greyscale I imagine there is a version of every colour that matches a pure grey. It probably has a technical term I’m not aware of, but it’s not colour matching.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Flinty wrote: If it’s a “scientific” method, then it needs some serious human oversight.
Again, when using systems like those found at https://www.kurabo.co.jp/el/world/en/products/color/ccm/ you will get odd matches like the one we're discussing. Whether or not if it's close enough of a match is a decision for the painter, not the one who's making the conversion chart using an accepted scientific method.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
I think if you are creating small batches of the same colour and one batch is neutral grey and the next is green then I think your customers may soon stop frequenting your establishment
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Flinty wrote: If it’s a “scientific” method, then it needs some serious human oversight.
Again, when using systems like those found at https://www.kurabo.co.jp/el/world/en/products/color/ccm/ you will get odd matches like the one we're discussing. Whether or not if it's close enough of a match is a decision for the painter, not the one who's making the conversion chart using an accepted scientific method.
I doubt Vallejo's scientific method went beyond looking at digital swatches and saying "yeah, that's kinda right". I've had colours matched at paint shops before and while they're usually not perfect, unless it's some candy or metallic they're usually not that bad. And the Heavy Grey is probably just a screw up because those are nowhere near similar, no method scientific or otherwise is going to give you a match that bad, Heavy Grey is obviously green, adeptus battlegrey is obviously a nearly neutral grey.
Honestly I'm struggling to think of any time I've found any paint equivalency chart to be useful, they give you no concept of how close a match might be, like are we talking "this could be used as a direct replacement", or "they're both kinda green I guess". If it comes down to the decision of the painter, then there was no point in the equivalency chart existing in the first place because the painter is still going to have to buy the paint to decide if they're happy with it.
Unless someone paints actual swatches (not digital ones) side by side it's no better than just looking at the paint charts from each company and ballparking similar looking colours.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I doubt Vallejo's scientific method went beyond looking at digital swatches and saying "yeah, that's kinda right".
I have seen other sources using a scientific method (long since gone offline) get the same or similar results. The problem here is just looking at the digital swatches most wouldn't say "yeah, that's kinda right" unless the colors on their monitor is seriously borked.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/08 16:28:12
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
In my experience equivalency charts are near useless. Actual swatches of the paint next to other known colours is far more helpful, but harder to find and cross-reference. I've resorted to making a swatch book and keeping permanent records on what every one of my paints looks like, so I can either find a suitable match or mix one in the future should disaster strike and a pot go bad or line get discontinued.
If you have a local hobby shop that carries Vallejo, see if they have a swatch book. My local train/modelling place has actual dry paint samples of the whole Vallejo line which is ideal, but you have to ask for it.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I doubt Vallejo's scientific method went beyond looking at digital swatches and saying "yeah, that's kinda right".
I have seen other sources using a scientific method (long since gone offline) get the same or similar results. The problem here is just looking at the digital swatches most wouldn't say "yeah, that's kinda right" unless the colors on their monitor is seriously borked.
What scientific method exactly are you referring to?
Personally I'd say if a scientific method came up with a match of Heavy Grey to Adeptus Battlegrey, the method is flawed and does not match with how human eyes interpret colour.
I know a common approach to matching colour is to start with lightness / value and then adjust the hue when you have that right (like the video below)... in which case yes, Heavy Grey and ABG are close on value, but no logical method for colour matching stops there and/or uses value is the highest priority for whether a colour matches, especially not for greys where subtle shifts in hue are much more perceivable than shifts in value.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/09 08:17:24
Most charts are 'matched' (I use the term very loosely here) by hexadecimal colour values, who's origin may or may not reflect the actual colour of the paint. How exactly those numbers are obtained is rarely clear (and probably not consistent between manufacturers). Paint isn't one flat value across - it has masstone and undertone, varying transparency and pigments. Getting *all* of those right is an artform.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/09 09:00:49
JMMelo wrote: Try the Brushrage app... their color matching is great
That looks interesting. Though if they're using Vallejo's digital swatches, I tend to find those a poor match for the colour in the pot anyway (the number of paints I've bought from Vallejo and then immediately shelved because it looked nothing like the swatch... it's easily cost me more money than the price difference between GW and Vallejo ).
Is there generally an expectation that Vallejo would have the same colours as citadel? Citadel paints are made exclusively for GW minis and the paint schemes that are linked to background and marketing design.
Vallejo have a paint range that is to cater for people doing all sorts of mini painting like airfix etc.
I too went down the rabbit hole of thinking I could get all the same colours from Vallejo and then I thought about it and thought why would that be unless they specifically had a business model of trying to under cut citadel which is a risky business plan
mrFickle wrote: Is there generally an expectation that Vallejo would have the same colours as citadel? Citadel paints are made exclusively for GW minis and the paint schemes that are linked to background and marketing design.
Vallejo have a paint range that is to cater for people doing all sorts of mini painting like airfix etc.
I too went down the rabbit hole of thinking I could get all the same colours from Vallejo and then I thought about it and thought why would that be unless they specifically had a business model of trying to under cut citadel which is a risky business plan
I think (and maybe I'm remembering wrong) that the Vallejo Game Colour range was supposed to match (or parallel with) a lot of the GW range so that people could just switch over. But maybe it was the old GW range, I really don't remember that well.
The Model Colour range is supposed to be more of a historical range, so they're supposed to match specific uniforms and camo patterns (though they're notoriously bad, if you check out forums dedicated to historic models they often compare paints that are supposed to match some historic colour and Vallejo is so often the odd one out).
The Vallejo Model Colour range therefore has a lot of greys, greens, drab sorts of colours that you'd normally associate with military patterns.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/10 08:41:18
The Vallejo Game Color range is equivalent to the old Citadel France line (MkIII, crystal pots), circa early 2000's. It does NOT match the current line, or even the line before the current line. It's based off the "Blood Red, Sunburst Yellow, Chaos Black, Skull White, Snakebite Leather, Space Wolves Grey, Dark Angels Green, etc." era.
Even at that while very similar, it's not a 100% match to those colours. The pigment recipes vary. Scurvy Green for example, is very similar to MkIII Scaly Green, but ever-so-slightly more green than the slightly bluer Scaly Green. It's very very close though, good enough that the minor shift wouldn't be noticeable IMO. It's also an easy 'add a tiny bit of green ink to get it identical' fix.
Other colours aren't as good a match, for example "Dark Fleshtone" is nothing like GW "Dark Flesh" except in masstone. If you thin or mix the paints, they're clearly made from very different pigments. Vallejo's D.F. is dull, almost greyish. GW's old D.F. is a kick-in-the-teeth brilliant red-orange when thinned. If you're just looking for the opaque colour then it's a fine replacement, but if you were mixing GW D.F. to get other colours, Vallejo's version will be a massive disappointment.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/10 10:27:03
2021/07/14 18:26:43
Subject: Re:GW paints And Their Valejo Equivalents.
Digital swatches are rubbish. They're barely useful for attempting to discern what colour you're buying. Unfortunately paint is one of those products that practically necessitates buying in person unless you're getting a known quantity (refill of an existing, identical product).
If your store doesn't have swatches, then bringing your own bottle along - write your name on it, and let the shop owner know what you're bringing in so they don't think you're stealing - is a good second best.
Third-best is bringing dry paint swatches and comparing those to the bottles. You have to aim a little brighter and lighter for most, since paint tends to darken as it dries slightly, but it's still better than trying to match by memory.
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
(pic is a little dull, but heavy grey is clearly not actually grey…)
