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So, unless it's been changed since I was actively reading about Chaos stuff, Lucius the Eternal has his thing where if anyone kills him and feels even an iota of pride about it, then they will become Lucius and be absorbed into his armour covered in screaming faces.

What I'm wondering is, if someone knew it was Lucius and know how it worked, and they killed him and were instantly struck by the horror of how they are going to turn into Lucius, and feel only regret about having killed him, wishing they hadn't done it so that they don't become one of many screaming faces, would they actually turn into Lucius?

If not, would the best way to beat Lucius be to spread horror stories about him to the troops so that they are all terrified of killing him?

The whole pride in the kill thing is something Slaanesh made up to sound fancy, but resurrects her champion regardless of the circumstances of his death.

I think there's been stories where he's been killed by drones or mines or something and still found some excuse to possess someone.

Lucius once got nuked by artillery shells then ended up possessing the guy who made the shells.
Honestly, I never liked the whole deal anyway because there are so many ways Lucius can die that don't involve anything to do with feeling pride at specifically killing him.
Who's feeling pride at Exterminatusing a planet? Or what about a Necron Overlord who just sees Lucius as another vermin to be exterminated?

Lucius is eternal because Slaanesh likes the only guy who can be her BDSM master. ;P

But really, he's just a gimmick at this point. His lore was always a bit... wishy, but it's been expanded into the "not sure if trolling or just stupid" territory when he started possessing people he never met half a universe away and living metal constructs.

those examples are just cases of people trying to close "loopholes" in curse by explaining how it he can surive events were no one would feel pride about it. but its bascially just She Who Thirsts has decided that Lucius shall keep coming back because it's amusing to them, so they twist the curse to whatever they want because they wrote it. If Slaanesh wants Lucius to return, it will find a way to do so.

That said, I think what should actually kill him is either a freak accident, like his ship having a reactor breach form being badly maintained or something, or he is killed by someone....who is seconds later killed by another emperors children marine and thus thier is no one corrupt (they might go the "maker on the gun" route with that one again, though).

Yeah, like xerxes said, it's a condition that Slaanesh will twist to suit his needs to bring Lucius back, and more often than not, will resurrect him regardless of whether someone does feel pride at the end of the day.

For example, I highly doubt that if Kharn was able to kill Lucius or if Abbadon did, that Slaanesh would either be able or willing to in the latter's case, to forcibly transform either character into Lucius. I think the power level or protection granted by things like primarch or being favoured by a patron god limits who Slaanesh can directly transform and in those instances would just have Lucius regenerate or come back to life. I mean Lucius basically did just that when he got killed by Sharrowkyn during 30k, and Sharrowkyn never got turned into him.

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, like xerxes said, it's a condition that Slaanesh will twist to suit his needs to bring Lucius back, and more often than not, will resurrect him regardless of whether someone does feel pride at the end of the day.

For example, I highly doubt that if Kharn was able to kill Lucius or if Abbadon did, that Slaanesh would either be able or willing to in the latter's case, to forcibly transform either character into Lucius. I think the power level or protection granted by things like primarch or being favoured by a patron god limits who Slaanesh can directly transform and in those instances would just have Lucius regenerate or come back to life. I mean Lucius basically did just that when he got killed by Sharrowkyn during 30k, and Sharrowkyn never got turned into him.

Given the shenanigans that have surrounded Lucius and his curse, it wouldn't surprise me if a plot armor character like Kharn killed him and he possessed the long lost great x10000 grandchild of the weapons creator.

What I really want to see is how Slaanesh would twist it if a Grey Knight, Tau, or Tyrranid killed him, as GK famously all have impervious psychic plot armor from chaos, Tau have almost no presence in the warp and are immune to chaos corruption, and Tyrranids are practically warp anti-matter with no individual will.

 SergentSilver wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, like xerxes said, it's a condition that Slaanesh will twist to suit his needs to bring Lucius back, and more often than not, will resurrect him regardless of whether someone does feel pride at the end of the day.

For example, I highly doubt that if Kharn was able to kill Lucius or if Abbadon did, that Slaanesh would either be able or willing to in the latter's case, to forcibly transform either character into Lucius. I think the power level or protection granted by things like primarch or being favoured by a patron god limits who Slaanesh can directly transform and in those instances would just have Lucius regenerate or come back to life. I mean Lucius basically did just that when he got killed by Sharrowkyn during 30k, and Sharrowkyn never got turned into him.

Given the shenanigans that have surrounded Lucius and his curse, it wouldn't surprise me if a plot armor character like Kharn killed him and he possessed the long lost great x10000 grandchild of the weapons creator.

What I really want to see is how Slaanesh would twist it if a Grey Knight, Tau, or Tyrranid killed him, as GK famously all have impervious psychic plot armor from chaos, Tau have almost no presence in the warp and are immune to chaos corruption, and Tyrranids are practically warp anti-matter with no individual will.

well, all of them would be processed like normal. after all, if a freaking Necron warrior (ie one of the near-mindless drone types) can be pocessed, those guys have no chance.

alternatively, the pocession will take hold in the 1st person who took satisfaction form Lucius' death, for example the servant of the Grey Knight who hears tales of his liege-lords skill, or the imperial intelligence analyst that realises that Lucius was killed fighting the tyranids, etc, etc. Like i said, Slaanesh will find a way if it suits them.

 SergentSilver wrote:
Tau have almost no presence in the warp and are immune to chaos corruption

That's a tau fanon myth. If they can will a demigod into existence by repeating mantra really hard, they have warp presence. Period. Especially seeing tau from Farsight expedition got corrupted really easily when he found that daemon planet and tau daemonhosts are a thing in the books.

Demons just don't target them often because there are a tons of tastier species around but if they happen to be close, they get devoured/corrupted no problem especially seeing they think anti-daemon protection (even scientific one, like Gellar field) is just worthless superstition.

 Irbis wrote:

 SergentSilver wrote:
Tau have almost no presence in the warp and are immune to chaos corruption

That's a tau fanon myth. If they can will a demigod into existence by repeating mantra really hard, they have warp presence. Period. Especially seeing tau from Farsight expedition got corrupted really easily when he found that daemon planet and tau daemonhosts are a thing in the books.

Demons just don't target them often because there are a tons of tastier species around but if they happen to be close, they get devoured/corrupted no problem especially seeing they think anti-daemon protection (even scientific one, like Gellar field) is just worthless superstition.

Hm, hadn't heard about that Farsight expedition being corrupted or Tau daemonhosts.

It wasn't the T'au that created the T'au'va Warp being, it was the auxiliary races like Humans, Kroot, and Vespids due to their superior link with the Warp. That's why the T'au of the 4th Sphere killed all of their auxiliaries and began purging non-T'au on any worlds they conquered.

What's the source for the Farsight stuff and the Tau Daemonhosts, Irbis?

 Gert wrote:
It wasn't the T'au that created the T'au'va Warp being, it was the auxiliary races like Humans, Kroot, and Vespids due to their superior link with the Warp. That's why the T'au of the 4th Sphere killed all of their auxiliaries and began purging non-T'au on any worlds they conquered.

Except said demigod looks 100% like Tau and only has secondary limbs resembling other races. Which makes sense because Tau population is greater than all the other species in the Empire combined. Yes, T'au of the 4th Sphere believe auxiliaries are at fault because they are too scared to consider possibility it's their own fault and they are no different / the 'greater good' is sham (and attempt to distract population from reality with manufactured 'truth' by ethereals) that simply doesn't work in setting they are in.

 Dysartes wrote:
What's the source for the Farsight stuff and the Tau Daemonhosts, Irbis?

Phil Kelly's Farsight: Crisis of Faith book. It has both Tau instantly going murderously insane in the presence of Khorne demons (until Farsight grabs anti-demon hexagrammatic amulets and distributes them among his forces) and Tau Daemonhost protagonist. Though book is terrible and Kelly shows his ineptitude when Ordo Xenos psyker inquisitor not only fails to detect said Daemonhost despite standing next to him, but apparently has no idea what they even are. And marines from particularly xenophobic chapter leave wounded tau commander alive "because he is going to die anyway" (instead of say breaking his neck with a kick) because Kelly painted himself into corner and had no idea how to save someone with a model for the next book

I think Lucius is one of the examples of GW wanting to have their cake and eat it. They set up a great character with a really cool and interesting back story and made him the greatest SM dualist ever. But chaos always lose on GWs mind. So the greatest dualist haas armour covered in the faces of all the people that killed him sooooooo there must be lots of people better than him at fighting

 Gert wrote:
Lucius once got nuked by artillery shells then ended up possessing the guy who made the shells.
Honestly, I never liked the whole deal anyway because there are so many ways Lucius can die that don't involve anything to do with feeling pride at specifically killing him.
Who's feeling pride at Exterminatusing a planet? Or what about a Necron Overlord who just sees Lucius as another vermin to be exterminated?

There was a story where he did get killed by a Necron and still came back.

I'd love to see a story where Kharn kills Lucius, then the soul of Lucius is fighting with Kharn over control of Kharn's body. It actually could be quite funny.

mrFickle wrote:
I think Lucius is one of the examples of GW wanting to have their cake and eat it. They set up a great character with a really cool and interesting back story and made him the greatest SM dualist ever. But chaos always lose on GWs mind. So the greatest dualist haas armour covered in the faces of all the people that killed him sooooooo there must be lots of people better than him at fighting

You can be the best duelist in the world but you'll still struggle when you're outnumbered, your blade can only be in one place at a time!
Watch any movie fight scene that involves multiple people dueling - 'Duel of the Fates' is a great example as it's extremely highly regarded. You can still see in multiple places that one jedi waits whilst Darth Maul parries the blow of the other, because if they swung at the same time Maul would simply have no counter.
You also can't parry a bullet, so that's always an option.

Also, regarding lucius' seemingly many deaths, I'd wager that Lucius might even willingly be killed by a foe he wants to suffer a fate worse than death, knowing that this enemy will become another face on his armour!

What would happen if Lilith killed him in the arena of the dark city? Slaneeeshes pull is weakened there.

It’s rumored that she is actually after him in the 8th codex, dunno if GW would follow that plot line though. A lot of things are brought up and later swiftly discarded.
Personally I think Lucius isn’t that great of a swordsman, and his bs HAX is just stupid.

The thing that gets me is that there are plenty of traitor legionaries that have presumably gone through 10000+ years of war without dying once. I love Lucius' concept, but it does kind of break down if you think about it too hard.

recaf wrote:
The thing that gets me is that there are plenty of traitor legionaries that have presumably gone through 10000+ years of war without dying once. I love Lucius' concept, but it does kind of break down if you think about it too hard.

Not continuous war, there’s been lots of hanging out in the eye of terror and lots of choosing your opponent. It’s not been 10k years of confrontation with loyalist marines

recaf wrote:
I love Lucius' concept, but it does kind of break down if you think about it too hard.

Pretty much. I think Lucius has a cool aesthetic & theme going on but he falls down pretty hard compared to the revamped post-POH Eidolon, etc. Being overused in the HH has not helped his cause.

The "curse of Lucius" isn't in my opinion a hard rule. It's just a little thematic way Slaanesh decided to raise his/her favored champion. It's thematic because pride, especially martial pride, is basically how Lucius fell into depravity, but Slaanesh isn't the kind to let go of his/her pawns easily, especially one as good as Lucius. He can be resurrected by divine will alone too. The only reason Lucius would or could die once and for all is if Slaanesh somehow decided to let it happen or someone managed to destroy his soul or capture it in some way like in a Tesseract or a Spirit Stone. In other words, if the Deathbringer kills Lucius, he's pretty much fethed. If the Doom of Malan'tai kills him he's also completely fethed, but beside that, no matter who or how he's killed, Slaanesh can bring him back. That doesn't mean that he will be brought back in Slaanesh favored way though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kirotheavenger wrote:

You also can't parry a bullet, so that's always an option.

Some eldars would like to disagree with that statement, but Lucius is probably not as fast as Jain Zar or a Succubus so he's probably in trouble if someone brings a big gun to a sword fight. It's good though that, unlike a Succubus who wears sex-appeal as armor, Lucius has a demonic power armor for protection in those cases.

mrFickle wrote:


Not continuous war, there’s been lots of hanging out in the eye of terror and lots of choosing your opponent. It’s not been 10k years of confrontation with loyalist marines

Yeah, that's a fair point, though from what we see of the Eye, traitor marines aren't exactly strangers to war and battle in between Black Crusades or raids.

recaf wrote:

mrFickle wrote:


Not continuous war, there’s been lots of hanging out in the eye of terror and lots of choosing your opponent. It’s not been 10k years of confrontation with loyalist marines

Yeah, that's a fair point, though from what we see of the Eye, traitor marines aren't exactly strangers to war and battle in between Black Crusades or raids.

They aren't, but they also aren't passing through 10,000 years in a linear fashion. Time often skips for them (or rather, they're frequently in places where it means nothing), or gets even weirder.

epronovost wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:

You also can't parry a bullet, so that's always an option.

Some eldars would like to disagree with that statement, but Lucius is probably not as fast as Jain Zar or a Succubus so he's probably in trouble if someone brings a big gun to a sword fight. It's good though that, unlike a Succubus who wears sex-appeal as armor, Lucius has a demonic power armor for protection in those cases.

Eh, it's a common trope (thanks Star Wars) but I don't think it actually makes sense.
Firstly, lasers are everywhere in 40k, by the time you've seen a laser it's already hit you (square in the eye at that!).
Even with regular bullets, someone has to be really cool to have the eye sight to see a tiny object moving very quickly from quite far away, and then accurately predict it's flight path to get their sword in the way. It's even worse in a battle context as you need to track not just one guy, but all his buddies as well, and all his buddy's buddies as well!

Just to point out that elite space marine duelists are most likely beyond bullet timing, for instance Sigismund definitely is, as he is well above the standards of an astartes, hell, he would even make some custodes look like mooks.
And as someone mentioned above, seeing as random wyches and some random succubi dodge bullets quite easily as well, obviously big names like Hesperax, JZ, Drazhar, and the Mandrake would consider bullet timing as nothing.

Back to the topic though, as I said before, Lucius would likely expect a fight to be swords vs other blades weapons, so perhaps he’s a good swordsman (not the best), but at the same time, only a passable fighter. Just look at his first fight with Loken.

I wonder if Lucius would be able to be fully destroyed if the person who killed him is a blank. Slaanesh can't find out who did it if they have no psychic presence?

Yes because shenanigans.