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Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator






So I'm planning on starting a Craftworld Eldar Army (namely with A Wave Serpent, Box of Dire avengers, a Start Collecting, and potentially a Hemlock together in a Patrol detachment), and I had some fluff ideas as well as army questions I wanted to ask about.

On the army and mini side, for are there any particular configs you would recommend, particularly for the War Walker, Wraithlord, and Farseer.

On the Fluff Side: So the basic idea is that this group is the remnants of a craftworld, in which the Craftworld itself has been destroyed, and instead of integrating into another, going rouge, or finding a nice Maiden World to live on, they remained indipendent, and declared revenge on the group that destroyed their craftworld. (Namely either Marines or Orks, not sure yet) Their equipment would be particularly ragged and in poor shape due to lack of supplies (due to the destruction of their webway gates), and would have a particularly large amount of Wraith units due to the lives lost in the destruction of the craftworld, and that the spirit stones were one of the few things they were able to collect in the aftermath. They operate in realspace in their area as a loose fleet, almost like noble-er corsairs. Occasionally they'll run across some drukari, craftworlds, or harlequins that they either trade with or get a hand from, but they're too proud to join them. They spend probably the most time with corsairs, since there's a certain kinship there of surviving without a craftworld, and they can get some tips on the same subject. The main goals are revenge, and gathering the resources to try and rebuild or construct a new craftworld. (hence why they try to stay withing the area)

My questions here are mainly, is this reasonable? Is there anything here that seems to outlandish to fit into the current fluff smoothly without large suspension of disbelief?

Thanks for all the help in advance!
   
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Italy

Army side:
-War Walkers with Starcannons are always solid.
-Some folks like to run Wraithlords dirt cheap without any special gear, I love them as a unit so I don't mind blowing points on upgrades even if I know they won't make their points back.
-For the Farseer Doom is always a great choice of power. The Singing Spear is a decent 5pt upgrade. When it comes to Relics they're kind of in a tough spot since most of the Eldar relics are remarkably bad compared to other factions. Falochu's wing is often taken just because it's the most useful in the scrap heap.

One last bit for the army. Hemlock Wraithfighters are a cool unit and I think it fits your fluff really well. That said, the unit is overcosted and not very competitive at the moment for say a 2000pt game. Since you mention Patrol you may be playing much smaller points than 2000 but if you are that can be a crappy situation for you and your opponent. For one it'll eat up a lot of your army points and won't be able to do anything with objectives and two your opponent will likely have far less tools to deal with a flyer in say a 500pt or 750pt game. I would recommend holding off on the Hemlock until after you've played a few games.

I also recommend a Spiritseer as a 2nd HQ option, it's a very fluffy unit to have leading your Wraiths around. In the old day Wraiths had penalties if there wasn't a psyker nearby to guide them. I've got an old finecast one but they recently released a plastic one that looks great.

Fluff side:
I like the concept quite a bit, essentially Craftworlders living a Corsair life but sticking to the path they know. I don't see anything out of place with it and all flows pretty logically to me. I'm not a lore expert though so someone who knows more about Corsairs and Craftworld survivors may be able to chime in and add some light to that.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





This sounds cool to me, though I'm no expert. One of the things I thought was great is that you chose future proof units- this is what I came into the thread to advise you about, but you're a step ahead of me.
   
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Agile Revenant Titan




Florida

Review some videos or other tutorials to magnetize the War Walker weapon options. Starcannons are arguably the best option now, but it could change once a new Codex is released.

Same for the Wraithlord: magnets.

No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I think that's a rad theme, particularly if most of the aspects are the more spiteful/brooding ones, Dire Avengers, Dark Reapers, Howling Banshees etc.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Hacking Shang Jí





Fayetteville

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
Their equipment would be particularly ragged and in poor shape due to lack of supplies


This is my only quibble with your concept. I don't think ragged equipment fits the Eldar since they make everything out of psychically sensitive plastics like wraithbone and they're all psykers. On a related note, you can address whether your craftworlders will still follow the Eldar path system without a craftworld to call home. The survivors are presumably not all on the path of the warrior. Some would be walking other paths like seer, service, artist etc. It would then follow that they still have bonesingers and the like to repair and build things.

The Imperial Navy, A Galatic Force for Good. 
   
Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator






Thanks for all the responses everyone!

The Red Hobbit wrote:Army side:
-War Walkers with Starcannons are always solid.
-Some folks like to run Wraithlords dirt cheap without any special gear, I love them as a unit so I don't mind blowing points on upgrades even if I know they won't make their points back.
-For the Farseer Doom is always a great choice of power. The Singing Spear is a decent 5pt upgrade. When it comes to Relics they're kind of in a tough spot since most of the Eldar relics are remarkably bad compared to other factions. Falochu's wing is often taken just because it's the most useful in the scrap heap.

One last bit for the army. Hemlock Wraithfighters are a cool unit and I think it fits your fluff really well. That said, the unit is overcosted and not very competitive at the moment for say a 2000pt game. Since you mention Patrol you may be playing much smaller points than 2000 but if you are that can be a crappy situation for you and your opponent. For one it'll eat up a lot of your army points and won't be able to do anything with objectives and two your opponent will likely have far less tools to deal with a flyer in say a 500pt or 750pt game. I would recommend holding off on the Hemlock until after you've played a few games.

I also recommend a Spiritseer as a 2nd HQ option, it's a very fluffy unit to have leading your Wraiths around. In the old day Wraiths had penalties if there wasn't a psyker nearby to guide them. I've got an old finecast one but they recently released a plastic one that looks great.

Fluff side:
I like the concept quite a bit, essentially Craftworlders living a Corsair life but sticking to the path they know. I don't see anything out of place with it and all flows pretty logically to me. I'm not a lore expert though so someone who knows more about Corsairs and Craftworld survivors may be able to chime in and add some light to that.


See, part of the reason I even went with the Hemlock is I found someone selling one near me fairly cheap (comparatively, he's a painter and clearing out his pile of shame), and it fit well. I also just really like the way it looks. (Su-47 anyone? ) As for the points level, not really concern to be honest. I mean Patrol as in the detachment, it's always good to have more Cp and if I can fit 1000+ army in a patrol detachment, why not do it? There's also the fact literally the only person who plays the game in my area is me. I live in the sticks, in a state already not known for this sort of thing. All the games I've played have been against myself and friends.

PenitentJake wrote:This sounds cool to me, though I'm no expert. One of the things I thought was great is that you chose future proof units- this is what I came into the thread to advise you about, but you're a step ahead of me.


Just to ask, what do you mean by future proofing?

Arschbombe wrote:
 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
Their equipment would be particularly ragged and in poor shape due to lack of supplies


This is my only quibble with your concept. I don't think ragged equipment fits the Eldar since they make everything out of psychically sensitive plastics like wraithbone and they're all psykers. On a related note, you can address whether your craftworlders will still follow the Eldar path system without a craftworld to call home. The survivors are presumably not all on the path of the warrior. Some would be walking other paths like seer, service, artist etc. It would then follow that they still have bonesingers and the like to repair and build things.


Presumably they'd have a few bonesingers, but my thought was is that they simply don't have the manpower to do it. With the constant conflict that comes from being where they are (thinking either in the Southern Gothic Sector, or somewhere around Angelis/Coelia/Asylus in the Ghoul Stars), combined with trying to repair the craftworld, and mainain their equipment, there's just not the people to go around.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/15 13:07:38


 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Southampton, UK

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

Just to ask, what do you mean by future proofing?


I think he means that a lot of the Eldar range of models are old. Really old. 20+ years in some cases. The ones you've picked out so far are largely newer ones that are less likely to be replaced or potentially scrapped or revamped in any possible update that hopefully comes along with the 9th edition codex.
   
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Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator






Crispy78 wrote:
 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

Just to ask, what do you mean by future proofing?


I think he means that a lot of the Eldar range of models are old. Really old. 20+ years in some cases. The ones you've picked out so far are largely newer ones that are less likely to be replaced or potentially scrapped or revamped in any possible update that hopefully comes along with the 9th edition codex.


Ah, thank you!
   
Made in us
Hacking Shang Jí





Fayetteville

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:


Presumably they'd have a few bonesingers, but my thought was is that they simply don't have the manpower to do it. With the constant conflict that comes from being where they are (thinking either in the Southern Gothic Sector, or somewhere around Angelis/Coelia/Asylus in the Ghoul Stars), combined with trying to repair the craftworld, and mainain their equipment, there's just not the people to go around.


Ok. If they are lacking in manpower, then the way I'd express it would be in equipment limitations instead of equipment quality. As in they can't maintain/repair everything, but what they do use is immaculate because Eldar. But it's your force and you can do whatever you'd like with it.

Other random thoughts about your idea.

Do they have an avatar? Did it get saved before the craftworld was destroyed?

They're essentially fleet-based since they lost their home. How is their society functioning aboard these ships? Do they still walk the paths? Can any survivors change the path they're on like switching from warrior to command? Or is everyone locked into their current path until they can repair/rebuild the craftworld?

Do they have shrines for the aspects? If not, where do the exarchs stay between battles? Do they even have exarchs? If they don't, how do they train new aspect warriors? Maybe all they have are guardians and wraiths?

Re: soulstones. You mentioned that they saved the stones. That's not how eldar store the essences of their dead. They are kept in the infinity circuit of the craftworld. For wraith units, the seers pull souls from the circuit and put them in the stones. The stones are then inserted into the wraith construct. So I'd recommend you write it that they managed to transfer most of the infinity circuit out of the craftworld into the circuits of the ships once they realized they couldn't save it.

Webway. It's pretty central to Eldar travel. I think they would still need access to it somehow. I can totally get losing their gates when they were attacked and this prevented them from escaping with more survivors, but they should be able to restore access later.

   
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 Arschbombe wrote:

Ok. If they are lacking in manpower, then the way I'd express it would be in equipment limitations instead of equipment quality. As in they can't maintain/repair everything, but what they do use is immaculate because Eldar. But it's your force and you can do whatever you'd like with it.

Perhaps, that might be a better way to do it. It'll just depend on how good my paintjob comes out.

Do they have an avatar? Did it get saved before the craftworld was destroyed?

The current candidate died, and a new hasn't been determined yet. Might be fun to have a new one arise in a Crusade game if I can ever get a chance to do one.


They're essentially fleet-based since they lost their home. How is their society functioning aboard these ships? Do they still walk the paths? Can any survivors change the path they're on like switching from warrior to command? Or is everyone locked into their current path until they can repair/rebuild the craftworld?

They're trying to replicate life on the Craftworld best they can, and they do follow the paths. You can switch, however it depends on the paths, and you'll be discouraged from switching from one to another if your current one is in high demand. (I.E. You'd be highly discouraged if you're following the Warrior or Mariner, while an Artisan or Dreamer would see less resistance)

Do they have shrines for the aspects? If not, where do the exarchs stay between battles? Do they even have exarchs? If they don't, how do they train new aspect warriors? Maybe all they have are guardians and wraiths?

Most have taken a ship in the fleet to be temporary Shrines, and the Dire Avengers Shrine was able to be salvaged completely and was able to be grafted into the current flagship (A Void Stalker). They have some Exarchs, most were killed in the destruction of the Craftworld or the fighting that lead to it. They have almost no Crimson Hunters, all but a handful were killed in the fight and a sole Exarch survived, and only because he was ordered to, while the Banshee's and Warp Spiders have the most, (The former due to luck and the latter because they were able to warp out before things fully went to crap, and were used in the evacuation of the Soul Stones) with the Dire Avengers catching up since they've got their shrine more-or-less intact.

Re: soulstones. You mentioned that they saved the stones. That's not how eldar store the essences of their dead. They are kept in the infinity circuit of the craftworld. For wraith units, the seers pull souls from the circuit and put them in the stones. The stones are then inserted into the wraith construct. So I'd recommend you write it that they managed to transfer most of the infinity circuit out of the craftworld into the circuits of the ships once they realized they couldn't save it.

That's kind of what I meant. The Seer's were pulling as many souls out of the circuit as they could, as fast as they could, with shuttles and Warp Spiders getting them to other craft as fast as they could.

Webway. It's pretty central to Eldar travel. I think they would still need access to it somehow. I can totally get losing their gates when they were attacked and this prevented them from escaping with more survivors, but they should be able to restore access later.

They currently have no craftworld sized gates, their flagship has one proportional to it's own size, and they presumably have a few Wraithgates, but beyond that they're stuck in realspace until they can find another craftworld.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/15 15:42:34


 
   
Made in us
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Italy

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

See, part of the reason I even went with the Hemlock is I found someone selling one near me fairly cheap (comparatively, he's a painter and clearing out his pile of shame), and it fit well. I also just really like the way it looks. (Su-47 anyone? ) As for the points level, not really concern to be honest. I mean Patrol as in the detachment, it's always good to have more Cp and if I can fit 1000+ army in a patrol detachment, why not do it? There's also the fact literally the only person who plays the game in my area is me. I live in the sticks, in a state already not known for this sort of thing. All the games I've played have been against myself and friends.


Oh definitely get the things you like, I've got a pair of Hemlocks myself since I love the design and the lore. One of my Eldar armies is Wraith heavy and it's a nice fit. Just wanted you to know that bringing a Flyer to a small game like a 500pt one isn't fun for anyone the majority of the time.

Are you friends playing with your models or do they have their own armies? I'm not sure where you're at and where your closest gaming store is but you'd be surprised how many people might be familiar with 40k just based on video games. If there's no club nearby you can always start one with your friends if it ends up being popular with your group.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
So I'm planning on starting a Craftworld Eldar Army (namely with A Wave Serpent, Box of Dire avengers, a Start Collecting, and potentially a Hemlock together in a Patrol detachment), and I had some fluff ideas as well as army questions I wanted to ask about.

On the army and mini side, for are there any particular configs you would recommend, particularly for the War Walker, Wraithlord, and Farseer.


A lot of people are hoping that Eldar will be getting some new models whenever GW gets around to giving them a codex. Their range has suffered a bit in the past years, and large portions of it are in finecast.

So while I very much support your enjoyment of the hobby, I would recommend starting low and/or having a disproportionate showcase of the more modern kits.

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

On the Fluff Side: So the basic idea is that this group is the remnants of a craftworld, in which the Craftworld itself has been destroyed, and instead of integrating into another, going rouge, or finding a nice Maiden World to live on, they remained indipendent, and declared revenge on the group that destroyed their craftworld. (Namely either Marines or Orks, not sure yet) Their equipment would be particularly ragged and in poor shape due to lack of supplies (due to the destruction of their webway gates), and would have a particularly large amount of Wraith units due to the lives lost in the destruction of the craftworld, and that the spirit stones were one of the few things they were able to collect in the aftermath. They operate in realspace in their area as a loose fleet, almost like noble-er corsairs. Occasionally they'll run across some drukari, craftworlds, or harlequins that they either trade with or get a hand from, but they're too proud to join them. They spend probably the most time with corsairs, since there's a certain kinship there of surviving without a craftworld, and they can get some tips on the same subject. The main goals are revenge, and gathering the resources to try and rebuild or construct a new craftworld. (hence why they try to stay withing the area)

My questions here are mainly, is this reasonable? Is there anything here that seems to outlandish to fit into the current fluff smoothly without large suspension of disbelief?

Thanks for all the help in advance!


Sounds reasonable to me. Nothing really out there, and I can think of a couple craftworlds that are in similar situations (Iyanden, the one craftworld that was stuck in orbit around the Eye of Terror).

The spirit stones and the lack of Infinity Circuit are probably your biggest 'gotcha' with regards to your fluff. The Infinity Circuit is usually made out of the structure of the Craftworld and spiritstone powered wraith constructs eventually do lose power. Plus how to get new spirit stones from Croneworlds and where to store those who croak. Now huge problems, play how you want to play, but thinking of the solution of them might give you more on how to flesh out your Craftworld remnants.

Also interested in how you want to address the civilian population of the Craftworld. Guardians are, after all, militia. The non-aspect warrior population would be on their own paths that don't relate to combat.
   
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The Red Hobbit wrote:
 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

See, part of the reason I even went with the Hemlock is I found someone selling one near me fairly cheap (comparatively, he's a painter and clearing out his pile of shame), and it fit well. I also just really like the way it looks. (Su-47 anyone? ) As for the points level, not really concern to be honest. I mean Patrol as in the detachment, it's always good to have more Cp and if I can fit 1000+ army in a patrol detachment, why not do it? There's also the fact literally the only person who plays the game in my area is me. I live in the sticks, in a state already not known for this sort of thing. All the games I've played have been against myself and friends.


Oh definitely get the things you like, I've got a pair of Hemlocks myself since I love the design and the lore. One of my Eldar armies is Wraith heavy and it's a nice fit. Just wanted you to know that bringing a Flyer to a small game like a 500pt one isn't fun for anyone the majority of the time.

Are you friends playing with your models or do they have their own armies? I'm not sure where you're at and where your closest gaming store is but you'd be surprised how many people might be familiar with 40k just based on video games. If there's no club nearby you can always start one with your friends if it ends up being popular with your group.

They're usually playing with my models, and it's moreso because it's a game to play, as opposed to wanting to play 40k specifically. They tend to see it as an elaborate board game. (These are the guys who play Axis & Allies 1940 with both halves on weekends) My closes store is roughly and 1 1/2 hours away through horrible traffic thanks to bad roads. There is a GW store but the sole inhabitant is a living stereotype of "That guy" (I'm not even joking, like every box ticked off). Not that big a deal for me though I've gotten more than used to playing myself anyway.

Altima wrote:

A lot of people are hoping that Eldar will be getting some new models whenever GW gets around to giving them a codex. Their range has suffered a bit in the past years, and large portions of it are in finecast.

So while I very much support your enjoyment of the hobby, I would recommend starting low and/or having a disproportionate showcase of the more modern kits.

Yep, that was kind of my goal with my choices, save the finecast for later or for an upgrade, whichever comes first.

Sounds reasonable to me. Nothing really out there, and I can think of a couple craftworlds that are in similar situations (Iyanden, the one craftworld that was stuck in orbit around the Eye of Terror).

The spirit stones and the lack of Infinity Circuit are probably your biggest 'gotcha' with regards to your fluff. The Infinity Circuit is usually made out of the structure of the Craftworld and spiritstone powered wraith constructs eventually do lose power. Plus how to get new spirit stones from Croneworlds and where to store those who croak. Now huge problems, play how you want to play, but thinking of the solution of them might give you more on how to flesh out your Craftworld remnants.

Also interested in how you want to address the civilian population of the Craftworld. Guardians are, after all, militia. The non-aspect warrior population would be on their own paths that don't relate to combat.

Interesting, hadn't thought of that. Could be some good Crusade or one-shot game fodder, tracking down caches of empty stones or carving a path to a crone world to get some stones and ship them back. Maybe even getting a hand from an Exodite world if I'm feeling ducky with conversions some day, (From my understanding Exodites are on good terms with the Asuryani) allowing them to return nearly spent spirit stones to the circuit in exchange for others?

The Civilians are *probably* working on the fleet to assist in the rebuilding of the craftworld (once they figure out the details and resources), and those who aren't working on that are either A) on militia assignment, B) Encouraged to volunteer for militia or switch to an Aspect, or C) develop as fast as they can on their chosen path so as to be as effective as can be. (Could lead to Slaanesh, but this is something of an emergency) As I've mentioned before in the thread, the biggest problem they're dealing with is a lack of manpower. They lost a lot of people on that craftworld, and there's only so many spirits stones to go around.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/16 12:14:33


 
   
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Italy

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

They're usually playing with my models, and it's moreso because it's a game to play, as opposed to wanting to play 40k specifically. They tend to see it as an elaborate board game. (These are the guys who play Axis & Allies 1940 with both halves on weekends) My closes store is roughly and 1 1/2 hours away through horrible traffic thanks to bad roads. There is a GW store but the sole inhabitant is a living stereotype of "That guy" (I'm not even joking, like every box ticked off). Not that big a deal for me though I've gotten more than used to playing myself anyway.

Yeah I know the type you're referring to and unfortunately the stereotype is real more often than you'd like. If you don't have a lot of terrain built you can always take your buddies over to the GW store if they let you borrow terrain. Plus you and your buddies travelling there might be helpful for changing the culture so it's not just one malingerer ruining the experience for everyone who walks in.

Unless "That Guy" is the owner in which case I'd avoid it.
   
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 The Red Hobbit wrote:
 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

They're usually playing with my models, and it's moreso because it's a game to play, as opposed to wanting to play 40k specifically. They tend to see it as an elaborate board game. (These are the guys who play Axis & Allies 1940 with both halves on weekends) My closes store is roughly and 1 1/2 hours away through horrible traffic thanks to bad roads. There is a GW store but the sole inhabitant is a living stereotype of "That guy" (I'm not even joking, like every box ticked off). Not that big a deal for me though I've gotten more than used to playing myself anyway.

Yeah I know the type you're referring to and unfortunately the stereotype is real more often than you'd like. If you don't have a lot of terrain built you can always take your buddies over to the GW store if they let you borrow terrain. Plus you and your buddies travelling there might be helpful for changing the culture so it's not just one malingerer ruining the experience for everyone who walks in.

Unless "That Guy" is the owner in which case I'd avoid it.


It's one of those situations where the Store Owner is a friend of That Guy, and thus takes his side in any given situation sadly.
   
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Italy

Ugh, yeah I'm familiar with that. Well, if that's the case best to build up a group in your local community than rely on a store with that kind of atmosphere.
   
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 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Ugh, yeah I'm familiar with that. Well, if that's the case best to build up a group in your local community than rely on a store with that kind of atmosphere.


Agreed there, hopefully I can some of my friends to be a little more invested.
   
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Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

Hobbit had good advice. Wraithlords are great models and with a start collecting box you should be receiving no good shape. A long time ago, a young man would crush me with his three war walkers with star cannons iirc. Eldar walkers are a good way to go.

   
 
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