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Let me preface by saying that Command Squads at present are pretty effective. However, my problem with them is how they are used in order to be effective. At present, both - the regular Command Squads and Tempestus Command Squads - are pretty much nothing more than fat-free special weapons delivery devices whilst the rest of their wargear options are more or less rendered pointless. This puts them in competition with Veterans and Special Weapons Squads with only their costs and availability being the main differentiating factors between the choices. Additionally, them being used in this way doesn't fit thematically. In a highly rigid military organisation, Command Squads are not there to kick butt and chew gum the same way as their Senior Officers are not meant to get stuck in into a firefight. Rather, Command Squads are meant to be there to support their respective officers. With that in mind, here's my attempt to try to remedy the situation somewhat:

Wargear:

Medi-pack: At the end of any of your Movement phases, a model with a medi-pack can heal a single friendly ASTRA MILITARUM INFANTRY model whose unit is within 3" of it. That model regains 1 wound that it lost earlier in the battle. If the unit has a Wounds characteristic of 1, one model slain earlier in the battle is returned to the unit instead. A unit can only be the target of this ability once in each turn.

Regimental standard: A model equipped with a regimental banner gains +1 to its Attack attribute. In addition, all friendly <REGIMENT> or MILITARUM AUXILLA models that are from the same detachment and are within 6" of this model gain the Objective Secured ability.

Vox-caster: Unchanged

Abilities:

Senior Medical Officer: A model equipped with a medi-pack gains the OFFICER keyword. In addition, they can restore up to 2 wounds or slain models when healing a friendly unit with the OFFICER or OFFICIO PREFECTUS keywords.

Senior Vox-operator: A model from this unit that is equipped with a vox-caster increases its effect by 3".

Command Squad: (Power Rating 2)



Militarum Tempestus Command Squad: (Power Rating 3)



TLDR:

Command Squads should just be foldered back in with their officers again. Much in the same way that certain GSC characters can take Familiars.

Now you suddenly have to risk the life of your officers if you want to use the Command Squad as a better Special Weapon Squad.

Personally, what I'd do is:
- Medi-pack: 6+++ just like all the other factions medics.
- Voxcasters: Unlimited range.
- Standards: +1 attack and +1 Ld just go back to what they were in the past.

Disclaimer: I've barely played my IG and haven't played them at all this edition.

* Medipack: Not sure who I'd use this on. Ogryn/Bullgryn I guess? If my characters have been injured, they've probably also been killed. Ditto my heavy and special weapon teams. I guess snipers might have plinked a wound or two off of my characters, but I kind of don't want to make snipers feel even worse.

* Regimental Standard: +1 attacks on the model wielding it almost seems to minor to warrant including as a rule. Obsec on bullgryn seems like a pain. Less of a pain than some of the other stuff out there at the moment, but still a bad time to play against.

* While limiting the number of special weapons in command squads helps differentiate them from special weapon teams, it also removes their main utility. I don't think your changes give enough back compared to what they take away for me to want to take a command squad. I'd probably just stop taking those units entirely and use the models for scion/special weapon teams if they lost half their special weapons.

*Command squads are really awkward in general. I feel like the unit as a whole should either be converted into a series of characters or else given the LoSir! rule.

*I like Jarms' suggestions..

The problem I have with command squads now is that there's almost always something else I'd rather do with the points or elite slot. If a command squad vox was better than the infantry vox that might do something for me. Same with the other equipment. Would be cool if your character near a med kit got a FNP roll or something in case someone is trying to snipe them. Dunno... Hope something cool comes out when the new codex drops.

Wyldhunt wrote:
* Medipack: Not sure who I'd use this on. Ogryn/Bullgryn I guess? If my characters have been injured, they've probably also been killed. Ditto my heavy and special weapon teams. I guess snipers might have plinked a wound or two off of my characters, but I kind of don't want to make snipers feel even worse.

* Regimental Standard: +1 attacks on the model wielding it almost seems to minor to warrant including as a rule. Obsec on bullgryn seems like a pain. Less of a pain than some of the other stuff out there at the moment, but still a bad time to play against.

* While limiting the number of special weapons in command squads helps differentiate them from special weapon teams, it also removes their main utility. I don't think your changes give enough back compared to what they take away for me to want to take a command squad. I'd probably just stop taking those units entirely and use the models for scion/special weapon teams if they lost half their special weapons.

*Command squads are really awkward in general. I feel like the unit as a whole should either be converted into a series of characters or else given the LoSir! rule.

Regarding medi-packs: My thinking is the same somewhat in that the game's current "have a chance to heal a character by 1 wound" is way too mediocre; especially with the abundance of Damage 2 weapons. Hence, why I made it automatic successes and created a special rule to further boost the healing to 2 wounds or models if they are officers or commissars. Consequently, as for which units are prime healing candidates, I'd imagine any officer and especially the Warlord. Also, healing itself would be useful since thanks to receiving the OFFICER keyword and how I've worded the medi-pack, the Command Squad can revive 2 models by its own medic.

Regarding regimental standards: The +1 attack was mainly to provide greater utility should the bearer have a chainsword or power sword (which the Cadian model can be built with). And yes, Bullgryns with Objective Secured would be a pain to take head on. Basically, that is somewhat the point of the ability - to really lock down whatever objective it is sitting on courtesy of giving Objective Secured to nearby units (e.g. artillery in the back line, or non-Troop units in the front line). To deal with it, the enemy could then try to take down the Command Squad (particularly the standard bearer) in order to remove the ability; especially as they would be much easier to take down than a full squad of Bullgryns for instance. Hence, the benefit of having a medic in the squad.

Regarding the reduction of number of special weapons: I suppose my guiding principle had been based on modelling the unit after British company and platoon headquarter units from WWII (as well as inspiration from modern military formations). At the time, platoon headquarters would typically have a junior officer, a sergeant with a Sten, a signaller, an orderly and a mortar team. Company headquarters would also keep 2 snipers in addition to their non-combat staff. In the present day, US platoon headquarter units typically have a junior officer, a sergeant, a radiotelephone operator, combat medic, and fire support team attached from artillery. In terms on whether it is an overall buff or not, I guess it wasn't necessarily my intention for it to be a major buff (hence why the power rating remains the same) and probably figured it was better to be conservative with the initial proposal rather than overpowered.

In terms of making Command Squads as individual characters: To me, I think keeping them as a squad is more in theme with the Astra Militarum since average humans wouldn't be typically tough enough to survive on their own without working in a team. At present, the way I see it, my proposal could be seen as making the Command Squad into a pseudo-character with modular buffs that it can choose to take and that it loses as it loses wounds. I suppose, I could include a further ability to help prevent it from being sniped from across the field? Though, I would feel that this would then run the risk of giving the unit too many special rules/abilities which isn't in theme with the Astra Militarum as each unit normally only have a few rules unless they're special named characters.

Hope that answers where my head was at when thinking up these ideas.

 RegularGuy wrote:
The problem I have with command squads now is that there's almost always something else I'd rather do with the points or elite slot. If a command squad vox was better than the infantry vox that might do something for me. Same with the other equipment. Would be cool if your character near a med kit got a FNP roll or something in case someone is trying to snipe them. Dunno... Hope something cool comes out when the new codex drops.

I feel that other units pay a huge premium in order to get that FNP aura. Granted, it could be because they're on characters rather than regular units but I figured giving the medi-pack the FNP aura would require it to cost much more than 10 points and potentially necessitate a power rating increase.

mr. peasant wrote:

Regarding medi-packs: My thinking is the same somewhat in that the game's current "have a chance to heal a character by 1 wound" is way too mediocre; especially with the abundance of Damage 2 weapons. Hence, why I made it automatic successes and created a special rule to further boost the healing to 2 wounds or models if they are officers or commissars. Consequently, as for which units are prime healing candidates, I'd imagine any officer and especially the Warlord. Also, healing itself would be useful since thanks to receiving the OFFICER keyword and how I've worded the medi-pack, the Command Squad can revive 2 models by its own medic.

I still feel like the issue here is that a command squad that is taking casualties is very likely to be getting wiped out entirely. Your take on the medipack is nice to have if you get the chance to use it, but I feel like you won't get a chance to use it most games. Which isn't the worst place for it to be, but does render it kind of inconsequential most games.

Regarding regimental standards: The +1 attack was mainly to provide greater utility should the bearer have a chainsword or power sword (which the Cadian model can be built with). And yes, Bullgryns with Objective Secured would be a pain to take head on. Basically, that is somewhat the point of the ability - to really lock down whatever objective it is sitting on courtesy of giving Objective Secured to nearby units (e.g. artillery in the back line, or non-Troop units in the front line). To deal with it, the enemy could then try to take down the Command Squad (particularly the standard bearer) in order to remove the ability; especially as they would be much easier to take down than a full squad of Bullgryns for instance. Hence, the benefit of having a medic in the squad.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I do kind of like the idea of having to wipe out the banner carrier to turn off obsec. You may have sold me on this one. (Although I still like the idea of a bonus attack banner.) Even on a chainsword or power sword guy, I'd be tempted to drop the +1 attack for the banner carrier for the sake of reducing rules bloat.

You're probably right that a Veteran with a power sword still wouldn't be the most intimidating in the world, even with a +1 to its attack. However, consider its application in the Tempestus Command Squad - specifically, in the hands of a Tempestor with a power sword (since I gave the squad access to both of these). Having 3 power sword attacks, hitting on a 3+ sounds tasty to me. Suddenly, there might be a reason to pause before charging that piddly guardsman squad.

As for the rest of your comments, I see where you're coming from about it potentially bringing too little for what it does. Though to be fair, I do envisage it as a unit with a niche role. If you want special weapons delivery units, then 2 SWS in a Chimera or Veterans should be what you go for; depending on how many points and Elite slots you're looking to spend. Also, I had an idea, again inspired by real world military organisation. What if we gave the following Stratagem as well:

Discretionary Assets [1 CP]
Astra Militarum Stratagem

Often times, field commanders have access to additional equipment and personnel that they are authorized to deploy as they see fit, according to the needs of the mission and situation on the ground

Use this Stratagem before the battle. Select one COMMAND SQUAD or MILITARUM TEMPESTUS COMMAND SQUAD from your army. Its models can then be individually redistributed to any INFANTRY SQUAD, VETERANS, SPECIAL WEAPONS SQUAD, COMMAND SQUAD, HEAVY WEAPONS SQUAD, TEMPESTUS SCIONS or TEMPESTUS COMMAND SQUAD provided they are the same <REGIMENT> and detachment.

Now, imagine 4-team Heavy Weapons Squads that can receive orders via vox-caster, or 12-man Scions with 5 plasma guns and the ability to resurrect 2 models at a time each time they get killed or blown up from overcharging? How does that sound?

First off:
Special Weapons and Heavy Weapons Teams? They gots to go. The Command Squad cannot and should not just be "Special/Heavy Weapon Caddies". That's been a big strike against the unit for awhile now.

Second off:
Command Squads should be a thing that is closer to a utility element than anything else. When someone takes a Command Squad, they should be getting things that would theoretically be accompanying an officer.

Third off:
We need to rework entirely how Orders. <Regiment>, and Officers exist as a Guard mechanic.
<Regiment> does not actually portray Guard faithfully at this point.

I have at my command an entire battle group of the Imperial Guard. Fifty regiments, including specialised drop troops, stealthers, mechanised formations, armoured companies, combat engineers and mobile artillery. Over half a million fighting men and thirty thousand tanks and artillery pieces are mine to command. Emperor show mercy to the fool that stands against me, for I shall not.

That quote will forever be a defining element of the Guard. It should be the defining design element for them going forward.


I don't know how or what you do, but the important things are what not to do. And that is to continue the status quo of what Command Squads are now.

Ideally? You should look at the Genestealer Cult and its ranks for some ideas. A Guard version of the Nexos, Clamavus, Jackal Alphus, and Iconward as Elites that fall into a "take multiples as one choice" would not be a bad route to go.

Scion Command Squads are, generally, going to be a bit harder to do well. They don't need to be carrying a flag with them all the time, so an Iconward-equivalent is basically unnecessary. For them? A "Fleet Liaison" would not be a bad call.


As for Officers and the <Regiment> tag?
Smart play would be to have the <Regiment> tag only apply to your Officers, affecting what Orders they can issue.

mr. peasant wrote:
However, consider its application in the Tempestus Command Squad - specifically, in the hands of a Tempestor with a power sword (since I gave the squad access to both of these). Having 3 power sword attacks, hitting on a 3+ sounds tasty to me. Suddenly, there might be a reason to pause before charging that piddly guardsman squad.

Never seemed to stop my opponent from charging into my banshees, so I'm dubious.

Discretionary Assets [1 CP]
Astra Militarum Stratagem

Often times, field commanders have access to additional equipment and personnel that they are authorized to deploy as they see fit, according to the needs of the mission and situation on the ground

Use this Stratagem before the battle. Select one COMMAND SQUAD or MILITARUM TEMPESTUS COMMAND SQUAD from your army. Its models can then be individually redistributed to any INFANTRY SQUAD, VETERANS, SPECIAL WEAPONS SQUAD, COMMAND SQUAD, HEAVY WEAPONS SQUAD, TEMPESTUS SCIONS or TEMPESTUS COMMAND SQUAD provided they are the same <REGIMENT> and detachment.

Now, imagine 4-team Heavy Weapons Squads that can receive orders via vox-caster, or 12-man Scions with 5 plasma guns and the ability to resurrect 2 models at a time each time they get killed or blown up from overcharging? How does that sound?

Still sounds kind of underwhelming. I like where your head is at, but that still just doesn't seem very impactful. An extra heavy weapon team receiving orders is neat, but that unit is probably going to die the first time I stare at it too hard. And being slightly more effective than other heavy weapon sqauads in your army is more likely to make me point guns at it. In my experience, scions are generally wiped out after the first time they shoot, so that medic is unlikely to get a chance to rez any of his squadmates.

And at that point, it feels like you're jumping through a lot of hoops to basically give the squad a healer-sergeant or coms-sergeant comparable to the one infiltrators (Intercessors?) can take. If you were to just turn the command squad into a bunch of individual characters (and maybe ditch the special weapon guys), they end up being flavorful support units comparable to masters of the fleet, astropaths, enginseers, etc. If you leave them as a squad but give that squad character protection, they become your scrappy little hero squad that can throw around a little extra firepower and support from just behind the front lines.

Making them a squad that then stops being a squad in order to become a series of squad upgrades at the cost of CP isn't a terrible idea, but it feels like you're adding a lot of steps to basically let squads take medipacks, vox units, and special weapons.