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Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




Les Etats Unis

The title says it all: While doing some bases for my army, I have learned that despite being mostly competent at basic painting skills, I somehow am physically incapable of drybrushing, and I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

As far as I'm aware, I follow the instructions to the letter: Get some paint on the pallet (pallete?), dip an old brush in there, then go to nuts on a paper towel until the paint is mostly dry. Flick it over the raised areas and you're done, right? Well, every time I use this method, I somehow end up getting the paint in the recesses instead! I've tried using both dried-down regular paints and the special Citadel Dry line, but I have no luck either way. Is there an answer to this riddle that I haven't come across? Am I brushing too close to the base, or not thinning the paints enough? Is it possible that I'm just a complete idiot? Answer for yourself, and please let me know while you do, as I am completely stumped!



Sorry I don't have any images to use as an example; It appears that I'm just as illiterate in the field of image-hosting software as I am with drybrushing. If you need a mental image, imagine a grass-colored sand base in which the areas that were supposed to be drybrushed lime green are instead entirely lime green.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
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Folkvang

Sounds like you may be using the wrong brush. Are you using a stiff bristled brush or a soft one?

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Focused Fire Warrior




Les Etats Unis

 Freya wrote:
Sounds like you may be using the wrong brush. Are you using a stiff bristled brush or a soft one?


I'm using an old soft-bristled brush; now that you mention it, that could very well be the issue.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy






If it makes you feel any better, I have almost given up on drybrushing as a technique because I can't do it either. I always end up with too much paint on the surface so it covers up the base coat instead of just hitting the high spots. I am getting better though, and I think it's more about how much paint is left on the brush rather than the consistency of the paint itself. You want almost no paint left so that you're just barely dusting the high spots with it.

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Longtime Dakkanaut






Sounds like you are using too mutch force and maybe wrong brush size.

ofc it is all relative to how mutch of the model you are doing drybrush on, but if i am doing a whole 28-32mm mini, like fur, i use the GW large drybrush. And dont press down the brush, nor flick it, move your entire arm sideways, and never brush in the same direction as the recesses are.
I would advice agasint using old beat up brushes, you need a stiff brush in good condition to pull off drybrushing.

Finaly, drybrush is not, and never have been, a "rookie" tequniqe, it takes just as mutch practice as layering.

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Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

Once I've wiped off most of the paint, I test it on the back of my hand or thumb. Skin has a lovely known texture that you can gauge how the paint catches.

I don't thin my paints at all when drybrushing.

What motion are you using for drybrushing? You want to be swiping the brush across the model and detail, not stabbing it towards it (this would be stippling and can easily drive paint into recesses).

If you really want to avoid getting paint in recesses, you can vary the angle of the brush so it's flatter against the model.

Cheap makeup brushes are also pretty good drybrushes.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





You asked if you weren’t thinning you paints enough??

Don’t thin you paints. I use the citadel dry bush, just take blob of pain out the pot as it comes, wipe it on tissue until there is barely any paint left in the brush and then gently but briskly brush it over the raised areas
   
Made in fi
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Indeed. You NEVER want to thin your drybrush paint. It needs to be as thick as possible.

If you get too heavy results, you still have too much paint on your brush. Just kerp wiping that paint off more before starting the drybrushing.

What I've always done since I was a kid is, I take a piece of paper and press it against the brush, trapping the bristles of the drybrush between the paper from both sides, then wipe. Do this enough times until the brush doesn't leave any clear marks of paint on the test paper, and you're good to go,

Drybrushing isn't hard IMHO, you just need to get these two key things right (thick paint/enough wiping)
   
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Lincolnton, N.C.

Also if you don't mind a bit of mess, test the brush on your finger or the back of your hand, if it's getting just the high edges of your 'fingerprint/skin' you're ready to go.

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Sounds like the paint is too wet or you aren't wiping enough off on the paper towel.

If you have paint that is too thin to use easily, a trick to try is load up the brush, wipe it off, load it up again, wipe it off, and use something nice an absorbent to get it off the brush.

You want so little paint on the brush that a single swipe leaves barely any paint on the model, and it takes a few back and forth swipes to build it up.

As far as brushes go, I reckon a mistake people often make (I certainly made it) is to use what used to be a pointed tip round brush that has gone to junk. If, instead, you buy a nice flat or round brush that isn't pointed you'll make things easier on yourself.

Drybrushing isn't difficult, but it's also something you need to learn. Back in the day it used to be targetted at newbie painters and they'd do a terrible job and make some hideous looking models (again, I was one of those people), but a skilled painter can use drybrushing to create some really nice effects. The YouTube channel "Artis Opus" often posts videos where he paints model primarily with drybrushing to a reasonably good standard.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Citadel make dry paints that are quite thick so getting a pot of that might give you the edge you need?

I don’t think dry brushing is easy so I sympathise, my problem was that the dry brushing was too heavy, making just the right amount of contact with the model I think is crucial and takes practice
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Oh Canada!

Drybrushing is nearly the inverse of regular painting in every way. The ideal setup is dry, thick paint, a big brush with a wide tip/edge, and lots of short, stiff bristles. Based on your description, I'd wager money on the brush being the culprit. It's probably too small/pointy/flexible for the task. Try getting a #6 or thereabouts 'Flat' or 'Filbert' or a short 'Mop'. The brush needs to resist easy bending, stiffer is better (within reason: hogshair is too far!)

One or more of these is the culprit:
• Brush too small
• Bristles too flexible/long
• Point too fine
• Paint too wet
• Brush overloaded with paint


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/21 22:16:50


 
   
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Under the couch

To add to the above, another possible culprit: are you wetting the brush before painting?

You can have the paint at the right consistency, but if your brush is wet it's going to put that moisture right back into the paint. Make sure the brush is dry.

 
   
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Focused Fire Warrior




Les Etats Unis

 insaniak wrote:
To add to the above, another possible culprit: are you wetting the brush before painting?

You can have the paint at the right consistency, but if your brush is wet it's going to put that moisture right back into the paint. Make sure the brush is dry.


I have been thinning my paints, and probably more importantly, wetting my brush. That might be the issue!

Thank you so much for the help, everyone!

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in fi
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






The clue is in the name, think of it more like applying powder than liquid paint. A tiny amount of paint goes a long way - you never get too heavy handed drybrush results by having too little paint on your brush, when in doubt, less is always better.
   
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Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

Definitely, go light and build it up.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






 Flipsiders wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
To add to the above, another possible culprit: are you wetting the brush before painting?

You can have the paint at the right consistency, but if your brush is wet it's going to put that moisture right back into the paint. Make sure the brush is dry.


I have been thinning my paints, and probably more importantly, wetting my brush. That might be the issue!

Thank you so much for the help, everyone!


yup, that is the problems.

drybrush = thick paint, bone dry brush, and non pointy brush.
Basicly the only time you are going to add water is when you are cleaning the brush after you are done drybrushing.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





I have heard that people buy cheap packs of makeup brushes to use for brushing
   
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Bristol (UK)

mrFickle wrote:
I have heard that people buy cheap packs of makeup brushes to use for brushing

That's what I've done, works great.
I only really use the smaller ones, but if I were to paint a building the huge ones would make it an absolute doddle!
The whole set was less than £5.
   
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 FrozenDwarf wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
To add to the above, another possible culprit: are you wetting the brush before painting?

You can have the paint at the right consistency, but if your brush is wet it's going to put that moisture right back into the paint. Make sure the brush is dry.


I have been thinning my paints, and probably more importantly, wetting my brush. That might be the issue!

Thank you so much for the help, everyone!


yup, that is the problems.

drybrush = thick paint, bone dry brush, and non pointy brush.
Basicly the only time you are going to add water is when you are cleaning the brush after you are done drybrushing.


If you're drybrushing a lot, the paint on the brush can go claggy and can start building up too much thickness of dried paint on the bristles, at which point it may help to slightly dampen the brush. Artis Opus sells dampening pads which have the express purpose of keeping a bit of moisture in the bristles without getting them too wet by dunking it in a pot of water.

But yeah from the OP's problem it sounds like they've gone too far the other way and made the paint too wet.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/22 08:31:22


 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut





Oh Canada!

Or, just use a damp paper towel or a wet palette to scrub off on. Both would do the same job. For most people paint buildup is never going to be an issue to begin with since minis are, well, mini. Maybe if you're doing a whole heap of drybrushing on a really big model it might have some use, but I remain dubious considering this is the same company that markets a *very* expensive drybrush.
   
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 kirotheavenger wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
I have heard that people buy cheap packs of makeup brushes to use for brushing

That's what I've done, works great.
I only really use the smaller ones, but if I were to paint a building the huge ones would make it an absolute doddle!
The whole set was less than £5.


Yep. I got a cheap set of make up brushes from amazon and one from local boots to see if there is any significant difference.
There is none.

The only difference is in the size of a brush. Sometimes you only want to dry brush a small area where a big brush would be ill fitte so a smaller brush would be better.
For the most part, you want as little paint on as possible and make as little contact as possible. Its way easier to build up than to try recover from over saturation.

One thing worth mentioning, sometimes I use a tile, sometimes I use a paper towel if the paint is getting too chalky and thats not what im after for example

I wish you luck. Dry brush is a very useful tool. When i was starting out it was like the only tool

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/23 06:24:23


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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


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Fire_Forever wrote:
Or, just use a damp paper towel or a wet palette to scrub off on. Both would do the same job. For most people paint buildup is never going to be an issue to begin with since minis are, well, mini. Maybe if you're doing a whole heap of drybrushing on a really big model it might have some use, but I remain dubious considering this is the same company that markets a *very* expensive drybrush.


I don't think their brushes are stupid expensive assuming they're good brushes (if you buy the set in the wooden box with all the frills, sure, but you're mostly just paying for the box). But good quality large brushes are expensive, I haven't tried the Artis Opus brushes but I'd like to.

However, I'm not trying to advertise their products, just pointing out the concept that, yes, you can let your brush get too dry. I've been using a drybrush-heavy scheme on my Nights Watch models and I've definitely had issues with my brush getting too dry painting them production line.

Love or hate their products, that Artis Opus youtube channel produces some really nice results through drybrushing. It's definitely designed for the people who are using drybrushing as a serious technique vs just someone using drybrushing to get a roughy job done quicker.

I've often had the issue where at the start of a session my drybrushing is bad because I hadn't loaded enough paint onto the brush, then it improves to a peak, then starts to degrade again as dried paint builds on the brush. It wasn't until I watched Artis Opus' YT channel that it made sense why.
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller




mrFickle wrote:
Citadel make dry paints that are quite thick


So thick I am still uncertain if its actually a pot of paint, some sort of rubber compound, or defective.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Oh Canada!

I don't love or hate them, I just think Artis Opis is doing the same thing Citadel is with their brushes - selling the brand more than a product. Equally good results can be had with other brushes that cost a fraction of theirs. Maybe if you're a avid drybrusher that spends most of their time with this technique, it might be worthwhile for that 'specialness', but for your basic miniature painter? There are other places those dollars could be better spent.

I use a plastic lid (yogurt container) for scrubbing drybrush paint around if it's too dry already for paper towel. Your paint consistency and local humidity will dictate between a plate/tile/lid, paper towel or moist surface as the best choice. Like many activities, the ability to adapt is of primary importance. Once you find that sweet spot of 'really dry, but still liquid enough to leave behind the barest dusting of colour' it becomes easier.
   
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Fire_Forever wrote:
I don't love or hate them, I just think Artis Opis is doing the same thing Citadel is with their brushes - selling the brand more than a product. Equally good results can be had with other brushes that cost a fraction of theirs. Maybe if you're a avid drybrusher that spends most of their time with this technique, it might be worthwhile for that 'specialness', but for your basic miniature painter? There are other places those dollars could be better spent.


I don't really see them as being terribly expensive, assuming they're good brushes which I have no idea because I haven't tried them. A comparison would be the Army Painter Drybrush set which is cheaper than buying 3 separate Artis Opus brushes, but from reviews I've read people say they're also not as good. I've struggled to find good drybrushes in art stores, you often get brushes that look good initially but then are either too soft or two stiff or don't hold up well to the abuse of drybrushing.

But either way, I wasn't trying to advertise their products, simply advertise their videos which demonstrate drybrushing better than most.

I think drybrushing is an underappreciated technique because it was so often marketed to newbies who then did a piss poor job using some junk brush and made a terrible looking army. But when done well, the ratio of time investment to quality is pretty good on the scale of painting an entire army, and the Artis Opus videos do a good job of demonstrating that.

I wish teenage me had known more about drybrushing back in the day, I would have gotten better looking armies on the table in less time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 06:44:16


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Oh Canada!

I would agree that drybrushing gets a bad rap, largely because it's pushed as 'easy' (it is, but only when you have the right brush and paint consistency), fast, and for neophytes. In reality drybrushing works on specific types of textures wonderfully, and looks mediocre on everything else. If speed is the only consideration sure you can drybrush an entire army, but it's probably going to look weird.

If you know what you're looking for, a good drybrush can be obtained for a couple of bucks. Most of mine are essentially free, since they're retired paintbrushes from previous pursuits.

The Opis videos are good, albeit pretty heavy on the product placement / advertisement - which is to be expected, they're a company and trying to sell their product. Still a fine resource.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 16:12:22


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





For what it’s worth I think dry brushing is especially effective for metallic colours.

There’s a newb video on the GW website that compares base, dry brush wash, to base wash layer and highlight and in that example is erm to remember the dry brushing looked aweful so if that your first example your gonna think it’s a bit naff
   
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Six bucks for makeup brushes on Amazon. Cheap. More importantly, you now have a range of sizes to use on your miniatures, as well as different brush shapes.

I just use them for terrain, along with craft paints. Instead of drybrushing, I'll use edge highlighting on a miniature. More control, and takes about the same amount of time. However, I paint to advanced tabletop, so dunno about display-level painting.

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Texas

The brush I use is a size 12 sable. The brush is fairly stiff, but the hairs are very soft/fine. Start with a perfectly dry brush, so when you get just a bit of paint at the tip, wipe just about all of it off, then I paint the side of my finger and should barely see any paint coming off, then we are ready. Brush lightly just to hit the top areas.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/12 17:07:15


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