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Made in gb
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle





How many attacks does a Helbrute with two Helbrute fists get?

It has two weapons, the two fists, that both say "Each the the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon.". So if it has two of "this weapon" is it two extra attacks? Each "this weapon" generating one of them?

That seems to be how I read it, but that does seem a touch absurd. The Power Scourge generates three extra attacks, that would make it nearly as useful as that.

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





It says that if you are equipped with 2 fists, you make one additional attack. The "this weapon" is defined in this case as 2 Helbrute fists. You would need to be equipped with 4 Helbrute fists somehow to get the two extra attacks you want.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/23 18:46:48


 
   
Made in gb
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle





 doctortom wrote:
It says that if you are equipped with 2 fists, you make one additional attack. The "this weapon" is defined in this case as 2 Helbrute fists. You would need to be equipped with 4 Helbrute fists somehow to get the two extra attacks you want.


This weapon usually means the weapon that the stat line is for, so a Helbrute fist.

The Daemon Prince's talons are an example with a similar wording, "each time the bearer fights, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon." So I've taken that to mean one set of talons gives one extra attack and two sets of talons would grant two extra attacks. If two sets didn't give an addtional extra attack then there would be no reason to take two of them.

So I see the wording as similar, "<if condition>, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon".

The condition for the talons is simpler, "Each time the bearer fights". The fists is "each time the bearer fights, if it is equipped with two Helbrute fists".

Getting back into 9th and picking up the new Codex is challenging

   
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If they had meant for it to be 2 additional attacks, they'd have said that you get +1 attack for each of the fists. They didn't. They said you get +1 attack for having two helbrute fists.
   
Made in gb
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle





 doctortom wrote:
If they had meant for it to be 2 additional attacks, they'd have said that you get +1 attack for each of the fists. They didn't. They said you get +1 attack for having two helbrute fists.


If they'd have said that that would also mean that you've get an extra attack with a fist for having just one fist, which you could couple with the scourge for an extra four attacks in total. They might have wanted to give a bonus for going all fist but nothing for just taking the one.

   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

You could probably split the attacks between the fists and get the additional attack for each fist though.


"If a model has more than one melee weapon, select which it will use before resolving any attacks. If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several attacks, it can split them between these weapons however you wish – declare which attacks are being made with which weapons before any attacks are resolved." P 22 PDF rules.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in de
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Germany

Helbrutes only get +1 attack for two fists, not +1 attack for each fist.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 p5freak wrote:
Helbrutes only get +1 attack for two fists, not +1 attack for each fist.
That is true if they only attack with one fist.

If they split the attacks between the fists, they get +1 for the first set of attacks with the one fist, and +1 for the other set of attacks with the other fist.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
Helbrutes only get +1 attack for two fists, not +1 attack for each fist.

Sadly, not with the current rules

One attack with one fist triggers the rule for an additional attack. One attach with the other fist triggers the rule again

Prove otherwise.
   
Made in ca
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





The Frozen North

...What on Earth are you people talking about? It doesn't matter how you split your attacks, it only matters what weapons the Helbrute is equipped with.

Indeed, you have to generate the additional attack with the Helbrute's fists before you can even split your attacks to begin with.

Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it.
 
   
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




The weapon ability doesn't say a helbrute gets one extra attack per fist it says that if the helbrute has 2 fists it makes 1 extra attack with this weapon. Note, it doesn't say per weapon only that you get an extra attack if you use a fist and your helbrute has 2 fists. So regardless of how many fists you use you only get one extra attack. The ability is fulfilled whether you use one fist or two fists.
   
Made in de
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






Germany

nosferatu1001 wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Helbrutes only get +1 attack for two fists, not +1 attack for each fist.

Sadly, not with the current rules

One attack with one fist triggers the rule for an additional attack. One attach with the other fist triggers the rule again

Prove otherwise.


The helbrute gets 1 additional attack with this weapon, each time the bearer fights. A unit can only fight once per fight phase.

Each time the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon.


No unit can fight more than once in the Fight phase.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

nosferatu1001 wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Helbrutes only get +1 attack for two fists, not +1 attack for each fist.

Sadly, not with the current rules

One attack with one fist triggers the rule for an additional attack. One attach with the other fist triggers the rule again

Prove otherwise.


Easy. “Fights” is a defined rules term. Your logic is trying to claim you get an extra attack for allocating an attack to that weapon, which is not what the rule says.

It’s one attack extra each time it fights if you have a pair of fists. As a unit fights once per Fight phase (barring special rules/starts) it’s one extra attack, cannot be two.

You started from a misread sadly so it doesn’t work how you think.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Chicago, IL

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Easy. “Fights” is a defined rules term. Your logic is trying to claim you get an extra attack for allocating an attack to that weapon, which is not what the rule says.
You are correct that trying to claim you get an extra attack for allocating an attack to that weapon is incorrect, My initial reading was not accurate, but the result is the same as I initially said, just not for the reason I stated.
Codex. Death Guard (9th edition) HELLBRUTE Dataslate wrote:Weapon: Helbrute fist. Abilities: Each time the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon.

The Hellbrute can be equipped with two "Helbrute fist" Each time the bearer fights, it gets to use the rule that says "Each time the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon." and since they have two of these weapons, they have this ability twice, and as such get to invoke the ability of each fist, because it has two fists so it gets that ability twice.

RAI the Hellbrute probably only gets 1 attack no matter how many "Helbrute fist" the model is equipped with.

But RAW 100% the Hellbrute gets to use the ability of all weapons it is equipped with.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
... it says that if the helbrute has 2 fists it makes 1 extra attack with this weapon...
Right, and how many weapons called Hellbrute Fist does the hellbrute have?

If it has 2, you can use that rule twice, for a total of 2 extra attacks.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 19:34:25


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in de
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Germany

No, its only +1 attack, because a unit can only fight once per fight phase. The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights. He makes multiple attacks, but can only fight once per fight phase.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 09:51:05


 
   
Made in us
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Chicago, IL

 p5freak wrote:
No, its only +1 attack, because a unit can only fight once per fight phase. The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights. He makes multiple attacks, but can only fight once per fight phase.
Your statement is incorrect. It is not only +1 attack. While it is true that a unit can only fight once per fight phase, what you said about the helbrute getting +1 attack each time he fights is inaccurate.

The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights per weapon that has that rule...

Since he has two weapons that have that rule he would in fact get +1 attack for each weapon.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
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 DeathReaper wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
No, its only +1 attack, because a unit can only fight once per fight phase. The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights. He makes multiple attacks, but can only fight once per fight phase.
Your statement is incorrect. It is not only +1 attack. While it is true that a unit can only fight once per fight phase, what you said about the helbrute getting +1 attack each time he fights is inaccurate.

The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights per weapon that has that rule...

Since he has two weapons that have that rule he would in fact get +1 attack for each weapon.


That isn't what the rule says:
Each the the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon..


There is no requirement for the unit to fight with the Helbrute fists at all. If it is armed with other weapons it could attack with those and still be make an additional attack with the Helbrute fist. The wording is very similar to other weapons that give an additional attack with a specific weapon such as chainswords/astares chainswrods. The only difference here is the requirement to be equipped with 2 rather than only one in order to make the additional attack.

eg.
Astartes chainsword

Each time the bearer fights, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 10:31:31


 
   
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Germany

 DeathReaper wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
No, its only +1 attack, because a unit can only fight once per fight phase. The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights. He makes multiple attacks, but can only fight once per fight phase.
Your statement is incorrect. It is not only +1 attack. While it is true that a unit can only fight once per fight phase, what you said about the helbrute getting +1 attack each time he fights is inaccurate.

The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights per weapon that has that rule...

Since he has two weapons that have that rule he would in fact get +1 attack for each weapon.


Your statement is incorrect. It doesnt say he makes 1 additional attack with each fist, or every time he attacks with a fist.
   
Made in us
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Chicago, IL

Spoiler:
Aash wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
No, its only +1 attack, because a unit can only fight once per fight phase. The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights. He makes multiple attacks, but can only fight once per fight phase.
Your statement is incorrect. It is not only +1 attack. While it is true that a unit can only fight once per fight phase, what you said about the helbrute getting +1 attack each time he fights is inaccurate.

The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights per weapon that has that rule...

Since he has two weapons that have that rule he would in fact get +1 attack for each weapon.


That isn't what the rule says:
Each the the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon..


There is no requirement for the unit to fight with the Helbrute fists at all. If it is armed with other weapons it could attack with those and still be make an additional attack with the Helbrute fist. The wording is very similar to other weapons that give an additional attack with a specific weapon such as chainswords/astares chainswrods.
Aash wrote:
The only difference here is the requirement to be equipped with 2 rather than only one in order to make the additional attack (with a single hellbrute fist).


You are missing an important part of it though. (I fixed your inaccuracy with the Cyan text)

It is not about attacking with the Helbrute fists.

You don't have to make any attacks, out of the 5 it gets, with the fists to get the additional attacks.

The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights per weapon that has that rule. It has two weapons with that rule so it gets +1 attack per Hellbrute Fist as noted in the quote about the abilities of said fist from the Hellbrute Dataslate.


 p5freak wrote:
Spoiler:
 DeathReaper wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
No, its only +1 attack, because a unit can only fight once per fight phase. The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights. He makes multiple attacks, but can only fight once per fight phase.
Your statement is incorrect. It is not only +1 attack. While it is true that a unit can only fight once per fight phase, what you said about the helbrute getting +1 attack each time he fights is inaccurate.

The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights per weapon that has that rule...

Since he has two weapons that have that rule he would in fact get +1 attack for each weapon.


Your statement is incorrect. It doesnt say he makes 1 additional attack with each fist, or every time he attacks with a fist.
My statement is not incorrect. Re-read it carefully.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 11:21:31


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle





Aash wrote:

There is no requirement for the unit to fight with the Helbrute fists at all. If it is armed with other weapons it could attack with those and still be make an additional attack with the Helbrute fist. The wording is very similar to other weapons that give an additional attack with a specific weapon such as chainswords/astares chainswrods. The only difference here is the requirement to be equipped with 2 rather than only one in order to make the additional attack.

eg.
Astartes chainsword

Each time the bearer fights, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon.


Not sure how much this is worth but the 8th Edition FAQ did include clarification that two chainswords would grant two extra attacks. The wording for that weapon was, in my DG Codex, "each time the bearer fights it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon".

The FAQ entry was:
Q: If a model is equipped with two chainswords, do they get to make 2 extra close combat attacks?
A: Yes (though both must be made with a chainsword).


But that is 8th, I don't believe there's been any similar clarification for 9th?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/25 11:16:48


   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

Basically the process goes like this:

The bearer of the Hellbrute fists is selected to fight
At this point we see that the Hellbrute is equipped with a Hellbrute Fist (lets call this weapon #1), and a second Hellbrute Fist (lets call this weapon #2).
We make our 5 attacks with any given weapon (does not matter which).
Then we check our special rules
Weapon #1, the Hellbrute Fist, has a rule about extra attacks.

So we check the rule and see if we satisfy the conditions:

Condition 1: "Each time the bearer fights" (Yes, satisfied)
Condition 2: "if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists" (Yes, satisfied)
We satisfied both conditions, as the bearer is fighting and it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, therefore we get the benefit.
The benefit is "it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon."

So we get +1 attack with weapon #1 for simply having that weapon (and using its special rules).

Now we check for other weapons on the dataslate:

Weapon #2 , the other Hellbrute Fist, also has a rule about extra attacks.

So we check the rule and see if we satisfy the conditions:

Condition 1: "Each time the bearer fights" (Yes, satisfied)
Condition 2: "if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists" (Yes, satisfied)
We satisfied both conditions, as the bearer is fighting and it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, therefore we get the benefit.
The benefit is "it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon."

So we get +1 attack with weapon #2 for simply having that weapon (and using its special rules).

Count all the +1's and you get +2. Simple (Though you need to make 1 attack with with weapon #1, and one attack with with weapon #2).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 11:26:54


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
No, its only +1 attack, because a unit can only fight once per fight phase. The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights. He makes multiple attacks, but can only fight once per fight phase.
Your statement is incorrect. It is not only +1 attack. While it is true that a unit can only fight once per fight phase, what you said about the helbrute getting +1 attack each time he fights is inaccurate.

The helbrute gets +1 attack each time he fights per weapon that has that rule...

Since he has two weapons that have that rule he would in fact get +1 attack for each weapon.


Your statement is incorrect. It doesnt say he makes 1 additional attack with each fist, or every time he attacks with a fist.

Yet it does

WITH THIS WEAPON
Each fist is a separate weapon that has that rule.
   
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 DeathReaper wrote:
Basically the process goes like this:

The bearer of the Hellbrute fists is selected to fight
At this point we see that the Hellbrute is equipped with a Hellbrute Fist (lets call this weapon #1), and a second Hellbrute Fist (lets call this weapon #2).
We make our 5 attacks with any given weapon (does not matter which).
Then we check our special rules
Weapon #1, the Hellbrute Fist, has a rule about extra attacks.

So we check the rule and see if we satisfy the conditions:

Condition 1: "Each time the bearer fights" (Yes, satisfied)
Condition 2: "if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists" (Yes, satisfied)
We satisfied both conditions, as the bearer is fighting and it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, therefore we get the benefit.
The benefit is "it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon."

So we get +1 attack with weapon #1 for simply having that weapon (and using its special rules).

Now we check for other weapons on the dataslate:

Weapon #2 , the other Hellbrute Fist, also has a rule about extra attacks.

So we check the rule and see if we satisfy the conditions:

Condition 1: "Each time the bearer fights" (Yes, satisfied)
Condition 2: "if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists" (Yes, satisfied)
We satisfied both conditions, as the bearer is fighting and it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, therefore we get the benefit.
The benefit is "it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon."

So we get +1 attack with weapon #2 for simply having that weapon (and using its special rules).

Count all the +1's and you get +2. Simple (Though you need to make 1 attack with with weapon #1, and one attack with with weapon #2).


Ah, I see now. Reading this, I agree that RAW the additional attack is triggered twice. I don't think this is intentional, but without a clarification via FAQ you've convinced me.
   
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Your argument that you have 2 weapons therefore the rule comes into play twice is irrelavent.

The rule says if you have 2 fists then you make an extra attack. It does not say that each time you use this weapon you make an extra attack. So, assuming that you have 2 fists during your fight phase you make an extra attack. It doesn't matter if you do it after using your left fist or your right fist.

You just go over the following list- Do you have 2 fists? If yes continue if not then end.
Did you make an extra attack using this weapon during your fignt phase? If yes then end if no, then make another attack or make your extra attack. Repeat until all of your attacks are made.
The rule is fulfilled once you make that extra attack. It doesn't matter how many fists you have making attacks it only matters that you have 2 fists and you have made an extra attack using one or the other of them.

The this weapon refers to the weapon system as a whole and not as each piece. Otherwise it would say each time you make an attack sequence using a fist then make an extra attack. Going by your example you wouldn't be able to make any extra attacks since you are using Helbrute fist #1 and Helbrute fist #2. Neither of them are, specifically, a "Helbrute fist".
   
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Cardiff

 DeathReaper wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Easy. “Fights” is a defined rules term. Your logic is trying to claim you get an extra attack for allocating an attack to that weapon, which is not what the rule says.
You are correct that trying to claim you get an extra attack for allocating an attack to that weapon is incorrect, My initial reading was not accurate, but the result is the same as I initially said, just not for the reason I stated.
Codex. Death Guard (9th edition) HELLBRUTE Dataslate wrote:Weapon: Helbrute fist. Abilities: Each time the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon.

The Hellbrute can be equipped with two "Helbrute fist" Each time the bearer fights, it gets to use the rule that says "Each time the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon." and since they have two of these weapons, they have this ability twice, and as such get to invoke the ability of each fist, because it has two fists so it gets that ability twice.

RAI the Hellbrute probably only gets 1 attack no matter how many "Helbrute fist" the model is equipped with.

But RAW 100% the Hellbrute gets to use the ability of all weapons it is equipped with.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
... it says that if the helbrute has 2 fists it makes 1 extra attack with this weapon...
Right, and how many weapons called Hellbrute Fist does the hellbrute have?

If it has 2, you can use that rule twice, for a total of 2 extra attacks.


I mean, this is completely NOT at all RAW, but you do you. Just know it’s completely not what the rule says.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut






Leo_the_Rat wrote:
The weapon ability doesn't say a helbrute gets one extra attack per fist......


Ah, but per weapon it says you get an extra attack. And he has 2 of these weapons which has their own rules with a condition that is met.

I would give them +2 attacks.
There are 2 sources of the ability that grant +1 attack to itself.
If the Hellbrute had the ability as written it would only grant +1 total.
Abilities can be duplicated and have compounding results - to ignore this is to ignore that different abilities also stack with one another. Its like saying you can't add 1+1 because theyre they same number.
   
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Dakka Veteran




 JohnnyHell wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Easy. “Fights” is a defined rules term. Your logic is trying to claim you get an extra attack for allocating an attack to that weapon, which is not what the rule says.
You are correct that trying to claim you get an extra attack for allocating an attack to that weapon is incorrect, My initial reading was not accurate, but the result is the same as I initially said, just not for the reason I stated.
Codex. Death Guard (9th edition) HELLBRUTE Dataslate wrote:Weapon: Helbrute fist. Abilities: Each time the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon.

The Hellbrute can be equipped with two "Helbrute fist" Each time the bearer fights, it gets to use the rule that says "Each time the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon." and since they have two of these weapons, they have this ability twice, and as such get to invoke the ability of each fist, because it has two fists so it gets that ability twice.

RAI the Hellbrute probably only gets 1 attack no matter how many "Helbrute fist" the model is equipped with.

But RAW 100% the Hellbrute gets to use the ability of all weapons it is equipped with.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
... it says that if the helbrute has 2 fists it makes 1 extra attack with this weapon...
Right, and how many weapons called Hellbrute Fist does the hellbrute have?

If it has 2, you can use that rule twice, for a total of 2 extra attacks.


I mean, this is completely NOT at all RAW, but you do you. Just know it’s completely not what the rule says.
If a Space Marine had two chain swords equipped nobody would be arguing against them getting 2 additional attacks - 1 for each chain sword. Chainsword Rule: "Each time the bearer fights, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon"
Seems like the Helbrute fist is the same, just with a condition on when you get the bonus attack.
   
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Chicago, IL

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Your argument that you have 2 weapons therefore the rule comes into play twice is irrelavent.
How is having a rule for one weapon that grants you an extra attack with that weapon, and having another rule with a different weapon that grants you an extra attack with that weapon, irrelevant?
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
It does not say that each time you use this weapon you make an extra attack.
We already know this, but that does not matter.
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
The this weapon refers to the weapon system as a whole and not as each piece.
What "weapon system as a whole" what does that even mean? There are clearly two weapons on that Hellbrute and Weapon #1 is called "Helbrute fist", and Weapon #2 is called "Helbrute fist"
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Neither of them are, specifically, a "Helbrute fist".
Your statement is demonstrably incorrect.
Both of the weapons are specifically called "Helbrute fist" as noted on the Hellbrute Dataslate.
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
So, assuming that you have 2 fists during your fight phase you make an extra attack. It doesn't matter if you do it after using your left fist or your right fist.
That is not quite how it works, check out the breakdown I have provided below.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I mean, this is completely NOT at all RAW, but you do you. Just know it’s completely not what the rule says.
It is RAW though, why do you think it is not? Got any citation that specifies otherwise?

Re-read this breakdown and tell me where you think the logic is incorrect:

Spoiler:
Basically the process goes like this:

The bearer of the Hellbrute fists is selected to fight
At this point we see that the Hellbrute is equipped with a Hellbrute Fist (lets call this weapon #1), and a second Hellbrute Fist (lets call this weapon #2).
We make our 5 attacks with any given weapon (does not matter which).
Then we check our special rules
Weapon #1, the Hellbrute Fist, has a rule about extra attacks.

So we check the rule and see if we satisfy the conditions:

Condition 1: "Each time the bearer fights" (Yes, satisfied)
Condition 2: "if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists" (Yes, satisfied)
We satisfied both conditions, as the bearer is fighting and it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, therefore we get the benefit.
The benefit is "it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon."

So we get +1 attack with weapon #1 for simply having that weapon (and using its special rules).

Now we check for other weapons on the dataslate:

Weapon #2 , the other Hellbrute Fist, also has a rule about extra attacks.

So we check the rule and see if we satisfy the conditions:

Condition 1: "Each time the bearer fights" (Yes, satisfied)
Condition 2: "if it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists" (Yes, satisfied)
We satisfied both conditions, as the bearer is fighting and it is equipped with 2 Helbrute fists, therefore we get the benefit.
The benefit is "it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon."

So we get +1 attack with weapon #2 for simply having that weapon (and using its special rules).

Count all the +1's and you get +2. Simple (Though you need to make 1 attack with with weapon #1, and one attack with with weapon #2).


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This is like dual ghostswords on wraithblades all over again

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


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Longtime Dakkanaut




Assuming the rules quotes in the first post are accurate, and each fist is bought separately (i.e. there is no weapon called "2 Hellbrute Fists") it looks like you get 2 bonus attacks. You have two weapons that have a rule that activates under certain conditions and there doesn't seem to be any reason why you can't activate the same rule on each weapon.
   
 
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