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Made in us
Yellin' Yoof




With the new stipulation of only a single warboss in a detachment, is there any reason not to throw Ghaz in a supreme command detachment (they added that keyword with the new codex) if you also want a regular warboss? Because either way he's required to be your warlord, and it'd just free up extra HQ slots to help with the new codex having a million HQ options.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Generally, no. No reason not to in thay circumstance.

You might come up against limits to how many detachments are allowed at your point level I guess.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




The only other thing I can think of is using him as the mandatory HQ of a patrol detachment in a 500pt game for a skew list, but you might be considered TFG...
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

sanguine40k wrote:
The only other thing I can think of is using him as the mandatory HQ of a patrol detachment in a 500pt game for a skew list, but you might be considered TFG...


“Might be”

Ghaz at 500 says “I hate friends”, haha.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/24 11:00:57


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in at
Deranged Necron Destroyer





Ghaz has to be your warlord. Therefore, your warlord is a goff, which means you get the Goff Relic and Strategem, not one of the other clans. Possibly a downside if you were planning to splash one of the spicier relices (Freeboota, Evil Sunz)
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Sedona, Arizona

Irdiumstern wrote:
Ghaz has to be your warlord. Therefore, your warlord is a goff, which means you get the Goff Relic and Strategem, not one of the other clans. Possibly a downside if you were planning to splash one of the spicier relices (Freeboota, Evil Sunz)


IIRC that's not how it works.

Basically, Special Characters don't disrupt your 'clan' for a detachment, meaning that all Orc units will still benefit, though they themselves won't get their culture unless it matches the detatchment culture. The book has an example of this with Ghazzy and Mad Doc.

You can also still take relics based on said culture. And if you wanted to get real spicey, different detatchments with different cultures with different relics via stratagem.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 morganfreeman wrote:
Irdiumstern wrote:
Ghaz has to be your warlord. Therefore, your warlord is a goff, which means you get the Goff Relic and Strategem, not one of the other clans. Possibly a downside if you were planning to splash one of the spicier relices (Freeboota, Evil Sunz)


IIRC that's not how it works.

Basically, Special Characters don't disrupt your 'clan' for a detachment, meaning that all Orc units will still benefit, though they themselves won't get their culture unless it matches the detatchment culture. The book has an example of this with Ghazzy and Mad Doc.

You can also still take relics based on said culture. And if you wanted to get real spicey, different detatchments with different cultures with different relics via stratagem.


Not for Orks - Only the warlord trait is open, You can only take the Kulture strat and relic that match your warlord, So Ghaz in a SC detachment locks out all the the relics for your other detachments (why GW limited it this way I have no idea)
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





ShinyDome wrote:
 morganfreeman wrote:
Irdiumstern wrote:
Ghaz has to be your warlord. Therefore, your warlord is a goff, which means you get the Goff Relic and Strategem, not one of the other clans. Possibly a downside if you were planning to splash one of the spicier relices (Freeboota, Evil Sunz)


IIRC that's not how it works.

Basically, Special Characters don't disrupt your 'clan' for a detachment, meaning that all Orc units will still benefit, though they themselves won't get their culture unless it matches the detatchment culture. The book has an example of this with Ghazzy and Mad Doc.

You can also still take relics based on said culture. And if you wanted to get real spicey, different detatchments with different cultures with different relics via stratagem.


Not for Orks - Only the warlord trait is open, You can only take the Kulture strat and relic that match your warlord, So Ghaz in a SC detachment locks out all the the relics for your other detachments (why GW limited it this way I have no idea)


thats proably how it should be for all factions TBH
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 JohnnyHell wrote:
sanguine40k wrote:
The only other thing I can think of is using him as the mandatory HQ of a patrol detachment in a 500pt game for a skew list, but you might be considered TFG...


“Might be”

Ghaz at 500 says “I hate friends”, haha.




Go play Thrakka at 500 points before talking about something you don't understand.

If you bring Thrakka and you mandatory troop selection at 500, you have a maximum of 150 points left to actually do anything, most likely you'll end up with Thrakka, a unit of boyz and a buggy or a dread.

That list is very likely to automatically lose any matched play mission you play and will be unable to stop any agenda your opponent is trying archive in crusade, let alone the drawbacks of having named characters in your crusade force.

Lastly, there also is the detachment limit - if you want to bring a naut and some buggies, you might find yourself without enough detachment to add the supreme commander.

So if someone is running Thrakka, at 500 they are neither TFG nor do they hate friends, but they are most likely someone who doesn't know the game very well and is setting themselves up for utter failure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Commissar Yarrork wrote:
With the new stipulation of only a single warboss in a detachment, is there any reason not to throw Ghaz in a supreme command detachment (they added that keyword with the new codex) if you also want a regular warboss? Because either way he's required to be your warlord, and it'd just free up extra HQ slots to help with the new codex having a million HQ options.

Most HQs aren't that great though, and you might want to spend your points on something besides yet another punchy character.

In addition, specialist mobs are one per detachment, so there is a good reason to spread your army across multiple patrols to get more specialists like pyromaniacs or trukkboyz. In that case, you would put Thrakka as the HQ of your detachment which refunds the most points.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/25 09:39:10


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




 Jidmah wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
sanguine40k wrote:
The only other thing I can think of is using him as the mandatory HQ of a patrol detachment in a 500pt game for a skew list, but you might be considered TFG...


“Might be”

Ghaz at 500 says “I hate friends”, haha.




Go play Thrakka at 500 points before talking about something you don't understand.


I don't disagree with any of your counterpoints but found that an unnecessarily rude way to open an argument.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






TFG/WAAC are also a rather serious insults and frankly I don't believe someone tossing about these terms for every little thing needs to be handled with kids gloves.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




 Jidmah wrote:
TFG/WAAC are also a rather serious insults and frankly I don't believe someone tossing about these terms for every little thing needs to be handled with kids gloves.


It was a hypothetical situation that was presented and commentary on how an opponent might react to that particular hypothetical. There was no insult targeted at any particular poster. Fair enough to disagree with the opinion, but I don't think leading with "shut up" is going to put anybody in a receptive state of mind for your otherwise well reasoned counter-argument.

It's not an unreasonable position to hold that a 500 pt game including any single 300+pt model is unlikely to result in a particularly engaging match up regardless of who wins or loses. I wouldn't be excited about the prospect of setting up a game like that.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






When you clearly weren't using reason to come to that position, it's unreasonable. In general this culture of getting your panties in bunch when your opponent violates your completely arbitrary definition of what they are allowed to bring to a game with you needs to die. The sooner, the better.

And sorry, but I disagree with your sentiment. If much more people were told to shut up when they are talking or writing nonsense without thinking, the world would be in a much better state than it is.

Not every opinion is a valuable one, not every opinion deserves kindness.

The reason why I believe you feel offended by this is because the American culture that I experienced when living in the states is much more about telling people how great they are and that everything is wonderful and that everyone should constantly be handled with great kindness, respect and be showered with praise. But in fact, much of that is just lying to each other for the sake of peace because discussions are seen as something negative that often leads to fights.

The culture in my part of Germany is that you tell people that they are being an idiot when they are being an idiot.

Frankly I believe that telling Johnny and sanguine40k that I think they have no clue what they are talking about is more honest than lying about how valuable their opinion is to me. They are free to prove me wrong.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/07/29 06:25:10


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






I don't see any problems with Ghaz in a 500 pt game. He's not that amazing. Remember, he's not getting healed up and there are not many other units left to take to kill the enemy at range or tie him t1.
Any ok-ish nowadays list is able to handle him even in such small games. Plink ghaz of 4 wounds turn 1 and than another 4 and finish up in mellee. He's just t6 2+ 4++ with no fnp or -damage.
The problems start when your opponent brings only mellee, for example. Or is playing Tau w/O Farsight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ShinyDome wrote:
 morganfreeman wrote:
Irdiumstern wrote:
Ghaz has to be your warlord. Therefore, your warlord is a goff, which means you get the Goff Relic and Strategem, not one of the other clans. Possibly a downside if you were planning to splash one of the spicier relices (Freeboota, Evil Sunz)


IIRC that's not how it works.

Basically, Special Characters don't disrupt your 'clan' for a detachment, meaning that all Orc units will still benefit, though they themselves won't get their culture unless it matches the detatchment culture. The book has an example of this with Ghazzy and Mad Doc.

You can also still take relics based on said culture. And if you wanted to get real spicey, different detatchments with different cultures with different relics via stratagem.


Not for Orks - Only the warlord trait is open, You can only take the Kulture strat and relic that match your warlord, So Ghaz in a SC detachment locks out all the the relics for your other detachments (why GW limited it this way I have no idea)


But you can take a supreme command detachment with ghaz and ignore all that negatives. You don't even have to pay cp for it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 13:18:32


 
   
Made in us
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




 Jidmah wrote:
When you clearly weren't using reason to come to that position, it's unreasonable. In general this culture of getting your panties in bunch when your opponent violates your completely arbitrary definition of what they are allowed to bring to a game with you needs to die. The sooner, the better.

And sorry, but I disagree with your sentiment. If much more people were told to shut up when they are talking or writing nonsense without thinking, the world would be in a much better state than it is.

Not every opinion is a valuable one, not every opinion deserves kindness.

The reason why I believe you feel offended by this is because the American culture that I experienced when living in the states is much more about telling people how great they are and that everything is wonderful and that everyone should constantly be handled with great kindness, respect and be showered with praise. But in fact, much of that is just lying to each other for the sake of peace because discussions are seen as something negative that often leads to fights.

The culture in my part of Germany is that you tell people that they are being an idiot when they are being an idiot.

Frankly I believe that telling Johnny and sanguine40k that I think they have no clue what they are talking about is more honest than lying about how valuable their opinion is to me. They are free to prove me wrong.


I agree that as a community, we can do better job at not shaming how people play the game. I think people need to communicate what their expectations are for a game upfront and realize they will need to work with the other person to make sure both players get a chance to play with their toys and have a good time.

I don't agree with your characterization of American culture at all, but that's beside the point. I'll say that the reason I didn't like the opening of your response is simply down to what I think is fairly standard debate etiquette that you attack the idea and not the person. That's what differentiates a debate or argument from a fight. You don't have to shower them in praise for their opinion or lie to them that you think they are awesome.

Anyway, I've derailed this thread with my soapboxing so I'll give it rest.

   
Made in us
Yellin' Yoof




 koooaei wrote:

ShinyDome wrote:
 morganfreeman wrote:
Irdiumstern wrote:
Ghaz has to be your warlord. Therefore, your warlord is a goff, which means you get the Goff Relic and Strategem, not one of the other clans. Possibly a downside if you were planning to splash one of the spicier relices (Freeboota, Evil Sunz)


IIRC that's not how it works.

Basically, Special Characters don't disrupt your 'clan' for a detachment, meaning that all Orc units will still benefit, though they themselves won't get their culture unless it matches the detatchment culture. The book has an example of this with Ghazzy and Mad Doc.

You can also still take relics based on said culture. And if you wanted to get real spicey, different detatchments with different cultures with different relics via stratagem.


Not for Orks - Only the warlord trait is open, You can only take the Kulture strat and relic that match your warlord, So Ghaz in a SC detachment locks out all the the relics for your other detachments (why GW limited it this way I have no idea)


But you can take a supreme command detachment with ghaz and ignore all that negatives. You don't even have to pay cp for it.


Does supreme command technically get its own culture, or would the culture have to match the detachment that he's reducing the cost of? For example, does he benefit from exploding 6s if he's in a SC, or does supreme command technically not get its own culture?

EDIT: or would putting him in supreme command detachment mean no matter what he doesn't get the goff bonuses?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/30 00:59:41


 
   
 
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