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Made in us
[DCM]
Pious Warrior Priest





My happy place.

https://twitter.com/lagoon83/status/1419634369464082434?s=07&fbclid=IwAR0l2YDwklJGcWET6eKmwL4wHL-phus4qXY-e-Cxg57q8fCl9E5d55wX4Wk

I thought the community might find this twitter thread from James Hewitt, former rules writer for GW, interesting to discuss.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 18:55:04


I play: AOS Death, AOS Cities of Sigmar, 40K imperial soup.

Co-owner of Two Idiots Printing Service, a 3D printing service. 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

The fact that they were paying him a sub-living wage while he delivered blockbuster game after blockbuster game infuriates me. He is a household name in gaming, and they treated him like some school-assembly clown they could shove in a van. One can only imagine how they treat less senior team members.

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Well that explains a frightening amount

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





Not surprising. It's been public secret games designers have among lowest salary in gw.

Since gw needs them just be yes man doing marketing ploys no need to pay much. If one leaves another to replace. Quality isn't needed

2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

Kinda surprised that they don’t have better NDA in place to prevent this type of information from surfacing. And then I remember that it probably won’t change a single person’s buying plans.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Pious Warrior Priest





My happy place.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Well that explains a frightening amount


Doesn't it though? Treating people who literally write the games that make you money like min wage slaves.

I play: AOS Death, AOS Cities of Sigmar, 40K imperial soup.

Co-owner of Two Idiots Printing Service, a 3D printing service. 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Dreams shattered because the company can't be bothered to pay a decent wage.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

That sucks! I can’t believe they pay so poorly…

Ooooooh! Did you see the new Kill Team teaser?
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

at least we now know that GW does not care how good the rules are the designers make, just that they do it fast and for cheap

of course the designers put no afford on the rules, the just make what they get paid for (gak)

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in es
Courageous Silver Helm





This guy helped them make millions with the BB rerelease. "If you like what you do, you won't care about money", "do what you love and you won't work ever again, who cares about money" That is all fine.... after you are living decently.

I remember applying a few years ago (it was already the "new and awesome gw") to a position at their HQ. Pay was very similar to what I had in a less demanding job in a less expensive country, and I should have had to relocate. No way that was going to happen.
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope






I am wary of posts like this. "I love gw product, but they mistreated me, and I'm heart broken that I have to do this.... Donate to my gofundme"
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




United Kingdom

 Irkjoe wrote:
I am wary of posts like this. "I love gw product, but they mistreated me, and I'm heart broken that I have to do this.... Donate to my gofundme"
He didn't start the thread - he was replying to this post.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






For future chat, probably worth nothing the whole “you don’t discuss your wage” thing is pretty common in the U.K.

I’ve no idea if there’s a legal or purely cultural background there, but it is what it is.

I am surprised to hear how comparatively little he earned though.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’ve no idea if there’s a legal or purely cultural background there, but it is what it is.

you don't talk open about your wage here either but as we have collective agreements you more or less know what everyone else gets at minimum in the specific positions

but you have to add either the wage itself or the collective agreements class on adverts, so net telling people for "reasons" is not possible (and it feels strange if a company don't want to do it)

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For future chat, probably worth nothing the whole “you don’t discuss your wage” thing is pretty common in the U.K.

I’ve no idea if there’s a legal or purely cultural background there, but it is what it is.

I am surprised to hear how comparatively little he earned though.


It's also common in the US, especially among the older folk. It's a method of controlling/abusing workers, and needs to change.
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 Irkjoe wrote:
I am wary of posts like this. "I love gw product, but they mistreated me, and I'm heart broken that I have to do this.... Donate to my gofundme"


Perhaps I missed something, but the only reference to gofundme I saw was a joke about him needing to raise legal funds if he breached an NDA with his posts.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

It’s common in the US too. Can’t have folks getting worked up about how much that nonproductive so and so is making.

But seriously, why pay more if people will take it? Clearly the customer base will reward the company pretty much whatever they do.
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Jesus, on that sort of salary he was getting less than I made bartending as an 18 year old in London.
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




United Kingdom

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Irkjoe wrote:
I am wary of posts like this. "I love gw product, but they mistreated me, and I'm heart broken that I have to do this.... Donate to my gofundme"


Perhaps I missed something, but the only reference to gofundme I saw was a joke about him needing to raise legal funds if he breached an NDA with his posts.
He posted a link to the Game Design Seminars he runs, as well as his ko-fi link.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 privateer4hire wrote:
Kinda surprised that they don’t have better NDA in place to prevent this type of information from surfacing. And then I remember that it probably won’t change a single person’s buying plans.


It is almost never legal to force a person to conceal their salary.

But companies certainly spend a lot of time making you think it is legal to force that and you are a bad person for thinking about getting more.



I find this darkly amusing especially because ninthmusketeer got on my ass on TGA about how I couldn't possibly know the sort of compensation GW writers got for their work and that my complaints were totally way too far when I said GW staff should be better compensated and have more control in the IP they create for the company

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/26 18:13:48


 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

beast_gts wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Irkjoe wrote:
I am wary of posts like this. "I love gw product, but they mistreated me, and I'm heart broken that I have to do this.... Donate to my gofundme"


Perhaps I missed something, but the only reference to gofundme I saw was a joke about him needing to raise legal funds if he breached an NDA with his posts.
He posted a link to the Game Design Seminars he runs, as well as his ko-fi link.

but not as answer to the original question but as regular tweet

which is kind of legit to advertise his stuff in his twitter account

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/26 18:14:48


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope






I'm just saying that becoming a victim or causing a controversy followed by shilling is a tried and true tactic. I don't doubt that gw treats their employees poorly, that there's more to the story, and that this is a cash grab.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I mean I can't find any links to this person's stuff in that thread so not sure how it's a cash grab chief.
I also think that it's kind of important for people to know what they're getting into when applying for a job so this kind of thing has definitely had me reassessing some decisions I was planning to make in the future.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Pious Warrior Priest





My happy place.

 Irkjoe wrote:
I'm just saying that becoming a victim or causing a controversy followed by shilling is a tried and true tactic. I don't doubt that gw treats their employees poorly, that there's more to the story, and that this is a cash grab.


The man is a well-respected designer who was paid pennies. Having known and spoken to him on quite a few occasions I doubt he's lying and I doubt there's more to the story about how much he was getting paid.

I play: AOS Death, AOS Cities of Sigmar, 40K imperial soup.

Co-owner of Two Idiots Printing Service, a 3D printing service. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Irkjoe wrote:
I'm just saying that becoming a victim or causing a controversy followed by shilling is a tried and true tactic. I don't doubt that gw treats their employees poorly, that there's more to the story, and that this is a cash grab.



"You are only allowed to have a moral issue with low pay if you are literally the budha having renounced all mortal things and are currently starving to death next to the 7-11 dumpster in a zenlike state"
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





It's not terribly surprising. Game design isn't really a career where there's an overabundance of open positions you can move into, coupled with there no doubt being plenty of eager- nay, fanatical would-be employees who'd happily crawl over your metaphorical corpse for a job "designing the games they loved." The video game industry in particular is propped up by the latter, though at least your future career prospects are a bit more open than in tabletop rules writing.

It's even less surprising to see it already being dismissed by people here.

Another one of his Tweets also talks about how not a lot actually changed internally between the Kirby and Rountree years, most of the execs were the same afterall. No surprise there.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/26 19:07:23


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Yeesh, that's bad considering the reward (for the company) vs responsibilities of the position...from GW I was expecting minimum 30/40k? (no pun)
 Gert wrote:
I also think that it's kind of important for people to know what they're getting into when applying for a job so this kind of thing has definitely had me reassessing some decisions I was planning to make in the future.

Truth. I had similar reservations about ever applying to FFG when it was revealed how little contract artists were paid per asset.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

The more they pay their staff, the less they have to pay shareholders. They have 32.7 million shares currently on the books. Do you have any idea how much 1000 gbp extra a year in an employee salary would detract from the dividends paid out?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/26 19:50:18


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Halifax

If you love what you do, get paid first, and then do what you love as a hobby. Because if you do it for work you'll end up hating it.

Incidentally this makes me very happy all my applications to work on the GW Design team were met with a reply stating they only considered local candidates for the positions.

   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






That is a shockingly low amount of money to pay someone who put together games that generated enormous amounts of money.

Shows them as very incompetent from a business sense. They had someone putting out blockbuster after blockbuster they could have given him a modest compensation and he may have been happy to work there another 20 years. Instead they underpay top talent. Bizarre.

But hey the Company prints money no matter what they do, there is no forcing function to make them behave ethically or even smartly in this case.
   
 
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