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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




We recently moved near our nephews which are about 11-12 years of age. Soon as our moving pod arrives we will have a lot of 40k models to play with.

I'm looking for ideas for small 1000-1500 games that are more Fluff and epic then anything else.


For example I have this idea of having a smaller army strike team of marines go into an ork base and kill the big meks before he activates a megadread.

Every turn the marines can move without orks fighting, but the moment they attack its a regular game. Every end turn however, the marines roll an increasing number that represents the orks detecting them (turn 1, roll of 1 notifies the orks. T2, 2 or 1, etc)

Is there a good reference to games like this? I can't stress enough I don't care about losing as long as it's "close" and feels epic. I'm just not great at balance lol
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





There are a couple ways to go here.

A new version of Kill Team is on the way. It's definitely small scale- like a single mixed unit of troops vs a single mixed unit of troops. Right now, it looks pretty promising, but we also don't have all the information yet either.

The current edition of 40K offers a play mode called Crusade; this features missions designed for story purposes rather than symmetrical balance, and it includes a progression system so that units earn experience and improve over a series of games. It doesn't include a bespoke campaign system for linking games, but that material is available from campaign books and mission packs if you want it, and the progression system kinda does this job depending on how much you embrace it; for example, Sisters who fail to achieve objectives in one game can take the oath of the penitent and try to redeem themselves in the next, Admech can loot damaged vehicles in one game and use components to build better weapons in the next, Drukhari can fight to secure territories in Commoragh, etc.

The other option, which was my favourite for kids, was Blackstone Fortress- this was a wicked little boardgame for 1-5 players (yes, you read that right- it can be played solo). I liked it so much because a) all of the models were also usable in both Kill Team and 40k and b) it's cooperative play, so it really helps kids get a sense of teamwork and sportsmanship. Unfortunately, it's been out of print for a while, and it's getting much harder to find.

Given these options, here's what I'd do: check local stores and ebay/ amazon to see if you can find any Blackstone Fortress; if you can, dive in- just remember that any of the expansion sets (if you find them) still require the base game. I don't expect you'll have a lot of luck, but it's worth a try. Watch for the new KT box- it will likely drop sometime in August, and it will sell out FAST so reserve a copy at a store or preorder.

It comes with two kill teams (Imperial Guard Death Corps of Krieg and Ork Kommandos), all the rules for using those models and playing the game, and a ton of terrain, so you can open the box and play. From there, you might decide to just stick with KT- they might give it enough support that you can just stick to those rules, and the missions might be dynamic enough to hold your interest forever.

If not, you can buy the 40k rulebook, which will give you the rules for 500 point Crusade games. If you do this, you'll also need dexes for the armies that the kids want to play; these will also have faction specific Crusade content built right in, which will make Crusade games far more interesting than they would be right out of the big rule book.

Also worth mentioning: only 9th edition dexes have bespoke Crusade content, and they aren't all out yet. We typically get at least one going up for preorder every month, but sometimes we get two per month.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 15:59:55


 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




1000-1500pts is too big in my opinion

I think 2 squads, a hero and something special like a tank or a dreadnought is more then enough for people to play with. At least as far as playing marines goes.

Stuff like crusade rules,overlaping mechanics or psychic powers , while playing larger 1000-1500 will just be too much for a new player that never played any table top games.

It also gets a tad boring, when your opponent takes his 1500pts of a turn.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I'd use the Crusade rules and treat the game more like D&D with 40k's mechanics than trying to be married to the vanilla system.

Once you start leaning towards the game being more about fun that way, things open up as far as what you can do narratively. And once you basically accept the role of DM, it doesn't become a game of you vs. me, it becomes a game of setting up a scenario and seeing how the players figure it out.

I also think it would be a better way for younger players to enjoy the game, since they may not find it as enjoyable at that age.

My recommendation would be something like a hero character to represent the player, one or two squads, and a centerpiece unit--so for space marines, something like a primaris lieutenant, a unit of intercessors, a unit of reivers or infiltrators, and a dreadnought or unit of aggressors. Using your scenario, I'd pit them up against a lot of cannon fodder boyz with maybe one or two truly dangerous units.

I'd also include a way in some scenarios that your players can refresh their numbers somehow, at least at the beginning. It helps with the feeling of getting screwed by the dice. For example, maybe the big mek has a damaged teleporter beacon that can be repaired and bring down a small squad to help out (like of assault intercessors).

But yeah, go small. Let them bring what they think looks cool, and tailor the scenario to provide them a challenge. Later on, as they get more comfortable with the game and get more toys, ramp up the difficulty. Throw in other opponents. That's another thing about smaller games--it's really easy to grab a combat patrol of another army to add some diversity. Maybe Necrons start awakening on a world, maybe a genestealer cult comes out of the woodwork, maybe dark eldar show up to do some harvesting, etc. Also, don't overuse excessively tough factions (like death guard). Removing enemies is fun--having to pour tons and tons of firepower into something only for it to flake off is not (for example, decurion from 7th).
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Keramory wrote:
We recently moved near our nephews which are about 11-12 years of age. Soon as our moving pod arrives we will have a lot of 40k models to play with.

I'm looking for ideas for small 1000-1500 games that are more Fluff and epic then anything else.


For example I have this idea of having a smaller army strike team of marines go into an ork base and kill the big meks before he activates a megadread.

Every turn the marines can move without orks fighting, but the moment they attack its a regular game. Every end turn however, the marines roll an increasing number that represents the orks detecting them (turn 1, roll of 1 notifies the orks. T2, 2 or 1, etc)

Is there a good reference to games like this? I can't stress enough I don't care about losing as long as it's "close" and feels epic. I'm just not great at balance lol


You want to check out the mission "Sabotage" from 4th. Attackers are sneaking around the table while they have to dodge guards. Those guards move around in a random manner and have detailed rules for detecting the attackers. Once the alarm is sounded the actual turns of the game are taken into account.
Another vital aspect is that the attacker is not allowed to make noise. So if you shoot or move a vehicle (including walkers) the alarm is sounded automatically but the mission allows the attacker and defender to split his army up so that a part is held in reserve.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Thanks for the answers so far!

To be honest I'm a little afraid of getting crusade involved because I was worried the level up and points and extra traits/relics would add to the confusion.

I was hoping for more along the lines or custom single small games themselves with a fluff objective or theme beyond the typical "get x objective"
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





It does depend to some degree upon the kids themselves. I played my first game of AD&D in grade 3 (8 years old) and I was regularly GMing by the time I turned 9.

I think I wrote my first RPG when I was 11.

At 10 years old, I would have eaten Crusade for a nice light snack.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 20:37:56


 
   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker





I suggest using the "Open War" deck of cards that is available. The cards provide a nice variety of setups, missions, and twists and are very simple for all players to use and understand. Most of all, the cards make for some fun games without the need for tracking primary and secondary objectives, dozens of victory points, etc. I have the 8th edition version, and from what I have read, the cards are mostly the same.

 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Keramory wrote:
Thanks for the answers so far!

To be honest I'm a little afraid of getting crusade involved because I was worried the level up and points and extra traits/relics would add to the confusion.

I was hoping for more along the lines or custom single small games themselves with a fluff objective or theme beyond the typical "get x objective"


Custom single games? Check out the Battle Report section of this forum. I have posted several reports on page 1 & 2. Thread names of these always begin with this:

BatRep in Pics...
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Keramory wrote:

For example I have this idea of having a smaller army strike team of marines go into an ork base and kill the big meks before he activates a megadread.

Every turn the marines can move without orks fighting, but the moment they attack its a regular game. Every end turn however, the marines roll an increasing number that represents the orks detecting them (turn 1, roll of 1 notifies the orks. T2, 2 or 1, etc)

Is there a good reference to games like this? I can't stress enough I don't care about losing as long as it's "close" and feels epic. I'm just not great at balance lol

I'd suggest seeing if you can get hold of the scenario book from the 8E Prophecy of the Wolf box set – there's a mission in that where some Space Wolves Infiltrators are trying to take down Ghazghkull before his head reattachment takes and his new armour's fully up and running, which could easily be adapted to what you have in mind. In fact, the scenario books from all the 2-army battle boxes (Forgebane, Tooth and Claw, etc.) might be just what you're after as they've all got a few narrative scenarios in them (which can be linked into a mini-campaign) and, although they're specifically written with the two armies from the box in mind, there's no reason you couldn't adapt them to suit the models you have available.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/29 08:55:02


 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

When I was that age we were playing "1 HQ, 1 Troops, 1 other" at my local store.
I'd suggest trending towards simpler, rather than more complex by throwing in sneaky missions and such.

I recommend the Open War cards, they're great for generating simple, fun, objectives with a light twist.

Once they understand the game well, then throw in the big twists.
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




dorset

couple of basic scenario outlines:

"last stand/buy us time": marines are stranded, cut off form outside help by a overwhelmingly large enemy force. They have no hope of escape, but only to sell thier lives as dearly as possible. the marines deploy centrally, with the enemy on either side. the enemy should be lots of relatively weak units, like guardsman squads or termagaunts , but have the ability to "regenerate" destoryed units to keep up the flow of bodies. the Marine player is basically scored on how long can he stat alive, earning points for each unit killed, etc.


"extraction": the marines have been sent in to rescue a high value target. It could be the planetary governor, the last astropath able to communicate with the incoming reinforcements, or even Yo Momma! (insert laugh track here). they need to escort him across the tabletop and off the enemy players edge. the enemy wants the target alive, so they cant just shoot him, they need to capture him and take him off the marine board edge. Basically, its a moving objective/"football" game. whoever controls the objective/VIP can move him towards their goalline to try and win.


"assassination": the enemy warlord has been shot down in transit, and is stranded in a vulnerable location. the marines have raced to find and kill him, but the warlords own forces are not far behind. target deploys center of the board in decent cover, with maybe a single elite unit of bodyguards. marines are on one side, and the enemy is getting reinforcements every turn form the other side. the marines need to get to and kill the warlord before the reinforcements make this impossible.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Stop thinking in terms of 'matched play' 1500 vs 1500 pts games. It's not needed. You need kustom scenarios.

You need something smaller, and mechanically simpler, like kill team or warcry.

Or as others have suggested, put on the hat of a gm, approach it a bit more like an rpg, and engineer some scenarios with appropriate challenges and suitable forces. A last stand, a rescue, a recon, an assassinate/grab enemy prisoner (gotta 'kill' him in melee and then retreat to your board edge with him) are all excellent ideas that offer some fantastic story hooks and narrative opportunities. Youre the expert here, I'm pretty certain most folks can put together a suitable match up.

Last thing you want or do is bring in a competitive style 'build the ultimate list' thought process to this.

Could be an option that you know the enemy roster but allow your nephews some choice in what they take (you get a captain and a crack squad of reivers. Now, do you want them with machine guns or assault pistols and swords?)



greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Thanks for the help!

So for the overall scenario, orks are planning to invade an ultramar world. How many successes the ultramarines have will determine the size of da big waaggh.

First mission:
Company of sneaky marines infiltrate a mekboy shop to disrupt an army of deff dreads. If successful they won't show up in the big Waugh.

Be about 1k points of marines. 500 points split between 2 (I have 2 nephews). They roll off for being cap and lt. Its about the shadowspear set with infiltrators and the sneaky dread for more bodies. The Invictor chills in the back in case things go wrong.

For the orks. It's 3 big meks, each working on a deff dread. Killing the big mek before they activate the deff dread is the goal. There will also be a unit of boyz patrolling the area.

Finally there's a regular mek and painboy around. If the regular mek isn't killed he'll activate 10 meganobz being worked on.

Each turn, the marines can move around and won't be detected by the orks if hidden behind anything. Start of the orks turn the patrolling orks roll to see what they do. High rolls might walk towards the marines. Low rolls they might fight one another. Who knows? They're orks. Every turn that goes by the chance of getting detected gets higher.

Basically it's set up so as long as the marines are sneaky and have luck on their side, the mission will go fairly well. The orks have more numbers though so if they're detected early or the big meks live, they'll kill the marines.
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

Gnarlly wrote:I suggest using the "Open War" deck of cards that is available. The cards provide a nice variety of setups, missions, and twists and are very simple for all players to use and understand. Most of all, the cards make for some fun games without the need for tracking primary and secondary objectives, dozens of victory points, etc. I have the 8th edition version, and from what I have read, the cards are mostly the same.

Open war deck + 500ish points on a largish board.
I play my nephew(7) all the time and he loves it.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

1500 way too big. That’s a three hour game with children.

In 8th you could do some great 500 point games. They were fast (40 minutes to play) and if you were sensible about what you included, balanced. Objectives and scenarios could be very varied, though some needed some houseruling (pointing out for example that the humble imperial guard squad could move 12+2d6” per turn and some movement missions got over quick if you didn’t take out that order).

The equivalent in 9th seems to be 750 points.

For marines you could have a fluffy force for that (though I am hazy on points).

Probably get task force in your face
Rhino
Tactical squad
Assault combat squad

And task force shoot your face
Razorback
Tactical combat squad
Devastator combat squad

Gives them some tactical choices and interplay between the two formations.
   
 
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