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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





So, I got to talking with ProfSrlojohn in the thread on factions to add to 40k and it got me thinking a lot on what they could mechanically and thematically add to the game. I wanted to post a separate thread here for that discussion. What design space could be tapped into for a new Xenos army? (Before anyone goes off on balancing the game before anything else is added, this is more meant as a thought exercise on game design and themes than a "should this be done right now" kind of thing.)

The main one we were discussing was the Hrud: They're all over the galaxy and would make a good small scale army all while looking crazy bad ass. Also, given their unique properties, I think they stand the best chance of being a new army with a radically difference playstyle. If they can get the feel of them aging their opponents to death out in a unique way on the tabletop, that would be fantastic. It could perhaps be a Mortal Wound focused army, but with lots of Auras? It would have to be really well balanced to make sure that it's not too OP or UP, but it would fit flavorfully. It's very clearly stated in the lore that armor and force fields don't protect you from the Hrud. They are also a scavenger race, like the Orks in the aspect but actually using the tech instead of just jamming every square peg into a round hole. Could be something there to give them some manor or traditional armor support? Maybe scavenged Necron tech as it doesn't really age. Maybe do what they did with the Ynnari but on a grander scale, with a few unique units and some Hrud conversion kits. They could really get creative with the stealth elements too, think outside the box. Right now all we've had is -1 to hit at x range, or can't be target if it's not the closest unit. While that's fine, it doesn't really scream invisible army. Maybe something like the blip tokens used in SH? You could deploy your Hrud infantry as tokens representing general heat signatures to the enemy with the actual unit they represent written underneath. You're opponent would know what your army is but not what is where until x thing happens to reveal them. (They get within x range, shoot, are shot, all of the above? whatever makes sense.) Might be a little cumbersome for matched play, but then again, until revealed you are not moving many pieces, so that at least would speed it up.

I was also thinking of the Men of Iron. It seems GW is at least hinting that they are still around somewhere what with BSF and all. The trick would be making them distinct from the Necrons. If they could come up with a far less convoluted way of using a system like the robots back in RT, that could work. Or perhaps having to decide ahead of time on specific actions for basic units, or maybe the HQ units functions as kind of control nodes allowing your army to do so many things, but as they are killed the army as a whole can do less and becomes weaker? Kinda the same broad strokes as Tyranid Synapse, but with very different functionality.

There are plenty of other options for whatever strikes your fancy, off the top of my head:
- Kroot (or all the Tau Axillary in general)
- The Rak'Gol
- Zoats
- The Rangda
- Squats (Though I'm not sure how they would get their own thematic feel for a full army instead of just being abhuman AM units.)

Anything else I didn't think of? Get creative with it.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 18:12:31


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Made in us
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At this point I think it is kinda irrelevant. So many armies concepts have bled into one another (or just been outright handed to SMs...) that I really think it doesn't matter any more if one army plays too much like another existing one.



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
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 Tawnis wrote:
It could perhaps be a Mortal Wound focused army, but with lots of Auras?


I hate to zoom in on just a single sentence, but if the example of unexplored design space is just more mortal wounds and more auras, then that more or less answers the question in the title. Even the blip token / stealth idea isn't too far off from GSC ambush mechanics.

Already the factions in the game step on each other too much in playstyle. The simple core rules and sheer number of factions make it unavoidable.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 18:20:24


   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





 catbarf wrote:
 Tawnis wrote:
It could perhaps be a Mortal Wound focused army, but with lots of Auras?


I hate to zoom in on just a single sentence, but if the example of unexplored design space is just more mortal wounds and more auras, then that more or less answers the question in the title. Even the blip token / stealth idea isn't too far off from GSC ambush mechanics.

Already the factions in the game step on each other too much in playstyle. The simple core rules and sheer number of factions make it unavoidable.


That is kinda why I posted the question in the first place. That was all I could think of, and you're right it still does step on some other toes. I was hoping there were other fresher ideas out there. Something I hadn't thought of.

Though, I did just think of something else for them in writing this. Since large groups of Hrud can actually speed up the aging of the planet itself, perhaps you could use that in some way? Maybe once a turn you could make, say a building collapse on their enemies, sprout a grove of trees for cover, or cause some kind of environmental effect like a nearby volcanic eruption that clogs the air with smoke?

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Doesn't have to be Xenos. I think Renegades & Heretics (i.e. traitor guard) would be a very logical addition.

There are a lot of issue with creating another Xenos army. Retcon-ing the entire lore being one of the largest to tackle.
   
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Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

You can introduce a new race without retconning anything, especially since there are already multiple alien races said to have some presence in the galaxy which don't have rules at the moment.

The topic of this thread though is what could those races do? Does 40k have any way to explore new faction dynamics.
I don't think it does. In fact, I don't think it has enough space for it's existing factions and there's already a lot similitude.
   
Made in us
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 kirotheavenger wrote:
You can introduce a new race without retconning anything, especially since there are already multiple alien races said to have some presence in the galaxy which don't have rules at the moment.


Yup. Like I mentioned in the other thread, there are plenty of narrative options you can use to explain the appearance of these races all of a sudden. In case we are forgetting, the biggest calamity to happen to the galaxy in 10,000 years has just happened. You can easily explain that several of these mini-empires decided to now make their moves (e.g. the Barghesi, who are currently kept in check by several SM chapters tasked with guarding the sector they occupy) now the Imperium and others are distracted and/or devastated by this massive Warp rift spanning the galaxy. No retcon at all needed.

Everyone all of a sudden wants an ongoing storyline in 40k (I don't, but it is what it is...), they might as well use it for other things other than the adventures of Gulliman and his Avengers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 19:01:50




A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
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Lord of the Fleet






London

I was discussing this with a friend the other day, in particular about Tau Auxiliaries. Perhaps to represent the huge variety of races, the army's theme could revolve around expanding the keyword choices

Example:
The army is basic in stats, let's use a Guardsman to start with.

1st Tier: Homeworld - Choose from a list of traits to apply to the army. These will mainly affect the Movement, Strength and Toughness stats.

ie; High-Gravity: Add +1 to Strength but -1" of Movement.

2nd Tier: Specialisation - Choose from a list of traits. These would mostly affect WS, BS and Attacks

ie: Inhuman Senses: Add +1 to hit when a unit with this Specialisation gains the benefit of cover.

3rd Tier: Equipment - Choose from a list of traits.

ie: Extended Chitin: Units with this Equipment add +1 to any armour saves.


Perhaps if these tiers were varied enough you could represent a number of different Xenos species.

   
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 Tawnis wrote:
 catbarf wrote:
 Tawnis wrote:
It could perhaps be a Mortal Wound focused army, but with lots of Auras?


I hate to zoom in on just a single sentence, but if the example of unexplored design space is just more mortal wounds and more auras, then that more or less answers the question in the title. Even the blip token / stealth idea isn't too far off from GSC ambush mechanics.

Already the factions in the game step on each other too much in playstyle. The simple core rules and sheer number of factions make it unavoidable.


That is kinda why I posted the question in the first place. That was all I could think of, and you're right it still does step on some other toes. I was hoping there were other fresher ideas out there. Something I hadn't thought of.

Though, I did just think of something else for them in writing this. Since large groups of Hrud can actually speed up the aging of the planet itself, perhaps you could use that in some way? Maybe once a turn you could make, say a building collapse on their enemies, sprout a grove of trees for cover, or cause some kind of environmental effect like a nearby volcanic eruption that clogs the air with smoke?


I think the biggest thing the game needs, whether new factions or old, is to move away from gimmicks completely. Auras, MWs, environmental effects, strats of rerolls, 6s, fight/shoot twice, its all the same crap and it bogs everything down.

The base game and the armies need to stand on their own merits, not just be a string of rules bloat eating away at game time. Go back to maneuver and morale and a comprehensible unification of weapons (no one needs 4.5 pages of guns for a single army), and focus on a fun game rather than 'clever' things that are all basically the same.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Honestly, until the rules writers think of some way to represent unique abilities beyond the handfull of rerolls and +1s everything has these days they're not going to have any design space at all.


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





 Valkyrie wrote:
I was discussing this with a friend the other day, in particular about Tau Auxiliaries. Perhaps to represent the huge variety of races, the army's theme could revolve around expanding the keyword choices

Example:
The army is basic in stats, let's use a Guardsman to start with.

1st Tier: Homeworld - Choose from a list of traits to apply to the army. These will mainly affect the Movement, Strength and Toughness stats.

ie; High-Gravity: Add +1 to Strength but -1" of Movement.

2nd Tier: Specialisation - Choose from a list of traits. These would mostly affect WS, BS and Attacks

ie: Inhuman Senses: Add +1 to hit when a unit with this Specialisation gains the benefit of cover.

3rd Tier: Equipment - Choose from a list of traits.

ie: Extended Chitin: Units with this Equipment add +1 to any armour saves.


Perhaps if these tiers were varied enough you could represent a number of different Xenos species.


That's pretty cool, kinda reminds me of the mutations from the old RT.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Voss wrote:


I think the biggest thing the game needs, whether new factions or old, is to move away from gimmicks completely. Auras, MWs, environmental effects, strats of rerolls, 6s, fight/shoot twice, its all the same crap and it bogs everything down.

The base game and the armies need to stand on their own merits, not just be a string of rules bloat eating away at game time. Go back to maneuver and morale and a comprehensible unification of weapons (no one needs 4.5 pages of guns for a single army), and focus on a fun game rather than 'clever' things that are all basically the same.


I suppose it depends of what you are looking for, see I (for the most part) actually like all the random little gimmicks, to me they make the game interesting. How else are you going to make dozens of armies feel unique? The more you compress down, the more it will feel like everyone is just playing the same thing. Sure that's great for competitive when you want games to be more balanced, but it sucks for casual play.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Honestly, until the rules writers think of some way to represent unique abilities beyond the handfull of rerolls and +1s everything has these days they're not going to have any design space at all.


Very true. I think rather than trying to squeze what they already have, 10th edition should focus on ways to expand what the game can do without loosing simplicity. I for one would love to see something like D12's replace D6's. It would give a lot more flexibility to tweak and balance stats for one (even if horde armies would be more of a pain to roll for). I also think a callback to the wild west days of RT is in order. Yeah there was a lot that didnt' work well back then, but they certainly were able to do a lot of unique things. Maybe there is a way to use some of that to expand on the design space?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/28 20:01:22


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Formations. Wedge for mobility, reverse wedge for melee, column for increased morale, line for firepower.

"I for one would love to see something like D12's replace D6's. It would give a lot more flexibility to tweak and balance stats for one..."

Which would fix nothing, Craftworld lances are d6 damage and Drukhari lances are D3+3 because of the release schedule and in the end the only thing that changes balance is points cost, stats and abilities are only for fluff and gameplay, not balance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 20:11:08


 
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




Not exactly fitting for Hrud probably, but answering the main question: a faction that relies on or is composed mainly of buildings is something that’s not in 40K so far. Could be movable buildings, or messing with terrain, don't know. Tau had their moving trenchwork but I can't remember that thing being worth it even in casual settings, ever. Nice terrain piece, though.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





 vict0988 wrote:
Formations. Wedge for mobility, reverse wedge for melee, column for increased morale, line for firepower.

"I for one would love to see something like D12's replace D6's. It would give a lot more flexibility to tweak and balance stats for one..."

Which would fix nothing, Craftworld lances are d6 damage and Drukhari lances are D3+3 because of the release schedule and in the end the only thing that changes balance is points cost, stats and abilities are only for fluff and gameplay, not balance.


That's more of a gripe against the update schedule though, which yeah, wouldn't change based on changing dice. However, when you want to nerf a unit, going from BS 3+ to 4+ is a huge nerf, but going from 6+ to 7+ is a more deft touch. That's the kind of balancing I meant.

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 Tawnis wrote:

Voss wrote:


I think the biggest thing the game needs, whether new factions or old, is to move away from gimmicks completely. Auras, MWs, environmental effects, strats of rerolls, 6s, fight/shoot twice, its all the same crap and it bogs everything down.

The base game and the armies need to stand on their own merits, not just be a string of rules bloat eating away at game time. Go back to maneuver and morale and a comprehensible unification of weapons (no one needs 4.5 pages of guns for a single army), and focus on a fun game rather than 'clever' things that are all basically the same.


I suppose it depends of what you are looking for, see I (for the most part) actually like all the random little gimmicks, to me they make the game interesting. How else are you going to make dozens of armies feel unique? The more you compress down, the more it will feel like everyone is just playing the same thing. Sure that's great for competitive when you want games to be more balanced, but it sucks for casual play.


Bah and humbug to you for trying to make this about 'casual and competitive' nonsense. A good solid ruleset free of bloat benefits absolutely everyone

Lack of gimmicks didn't make the game feel less unique for nearly half-a-dozen editions, which started with armies that are missing now and only replaced by a pile of space marines that _are_ the same despite the trivial differences from different color-coded rules. Getting rid of the bloat doesn't 'compress' the game, it sets it free to be about the game rather than dozens of pages of little rules scattered across a half-dozen books.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/28 20:41:08


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I too like the things that fans of previous versions of the game refer to as gimmicks.

You can label anything a gimmick if you don't like it. Like all those gimmicky blast templates and pinning weapons- I hated those.

So one of the places I think there's a lot of design space, and specifically for Hrud, is stat damage. I hit you and cause one damage, but that damage isn't applied to your wounds characteristic, it's applied to your strength. Or your toughness. Or your movement. Different units, or different gear could target different stats.

I think about things like the Repentia Superior's Neural Whips, which have a different effect against models of lower leadership. These are new ways to make existing stats relevant in different ways.

Or things like Curses, which would assign penalties and debuffs; they already do this in Crusade- you can pay RP to deal specific persistent wounds which can only be removed when the injured unit performs a specific action.

Persistent spells are another thing that has recently been talked about in reference to the upcoming Kson's dex.

All of these innovations are there, just waiting to be applied. There's plenty of new hotness GW could invoke if they wanted a new faction to feel different.

Fortunately, for some new factions that people are looking for, there doesn't need to be a new feel, there just needs to be rules and models. Take EC or WE; we know who and what they are, and we can give them fluffy WL Traits, Strats, Relics, specialized equipment, a few bespoke units, a decent chapter trait and roll them out with kick @$$ models, and people would be happy with that. You don't need to carve out design space and create a unique mechanic for these guys.

And I think Gw can and will focus on those types of factions first. They are a lot less risky to invest in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 21:05:42


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





PenitentJake wrote:
I too like the things that fans of previous versions of the game refer to as gimmicks.

You can label anything a gimmick if you don't like it. Like all those gimmicky blast templates and pinning weapons- I hated those.

So one of the places I think there's a lot of design space, and specifically for Hrud, is stat damage. I hit you and cause one damage, but that damage isn't applied to your wounds characteristic, it's applied to your strength. Or your toughness. Or your movement. Different units, or different gear could target different stats.


I hated the templated whenever I took them to a store and someone had to whip out a freaking magnifying glass to prove their unit was 1mm out of a template, or that one of my units was just barely touching theirs. In games for fun with friends, I thought they were super fun and flavorful. But yeah, I hated pinning too. XD

That's a really cool idea. You could track them with a marker or something put next to the unit and you're golden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Voss wrote:
 Tawnis wrote:

Voss wrote:


I think the biggest thing the game needs, whether new factions or old, is to move away from gimmicks completely. Auras, MWs, environmental effects, strats of rerolls, 6s, fight/shoot twice, its all the same crap and it bogs everything down.

The base game and the armies need to stand on their own merits, not just be a string of rules bloat eating away at game time. Go back to maneuver and morale and a comprehensible unification of weapons (no one needs 4.5 pages of guns for a single army), and focus on a fun game rather than 'clever' things that are all basically the same.


I suppose it depends of what you are looking for, see I (for the most part) actually like all the random little gimmicks, to me they make the game interesting. How else are you going to make dozens of armies feel unique? The more you compress down, the more it will feel like everyone is just playing the same thing. Sure that's great for competitive when you want games to be more balanced, but it sucks for casual play.


Bah and humbug to you for trying to make this about 'casual and competitive' nonsense. A good solid ruleset free of bloat benefits absolutely everyone

Lack of gimmicks didn't make the game feel less unique for nearly half-a-dozen editions, which started with armies that are missing now and only replaced by a pile of space marines that _are_ the same despite the trivial differences from different color-coded rules. Getting rid of the bloat doesn't 'compress' the game, it sets it free to be about the game rather than dozens of pages of little rules scattered across a half-dozen books.


To a point. Every basic rule set has it's limitations, that why exceptions exist. Too many and yeah, it becomes a jumbled mess, but not enough makes it feel stale and repetitive.

I'd counter with too many gimmicks didn't make it feel unfun in the RT days. Back then it was such a jumbled mess you needed a GM just to help sort everything out. It wasn't meant to be competitive it was flavorful and fun... you know, that actually I think hits on a solution for both out points. GW is already creating new rulesets for things like Kill Team and Apoc, even regular 40 to a point with Crusade. Why not have two separate but related rule sets for competitive and narrative? Competitive can be all about the numbers, making it as balanced and as fair possible, cutting out the random bits and exceptions, while narrative won't care much about balance and can just be for people to have fun with. (Not trying to say that competitive is not fun, just a different kind of fun.) They could throw whatever crazy thing they wanted at it, and it wouldn't matter because if casual players didn't want to use X rule, they don't have to.


New races could be introduced in narrative with whatever bonkers ideas they can come up with to be played around with for a while, then allowed in competitive when they find out what works and what doesn't.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/28 21:28:24


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 Tawnis wrote:
That's more of a gripe against the update schedule though, which yeah, wouldn't change based on changing dice. However, when you want to nerf a unit, going from BS 3+ to 4+ is a huge nerf, but going from 6+ to 7+ is a more deft touch. That's the kind of balancing I meant.


Greater granularity makes balancing easier but it adds little in terms of design space or depth. Making a new faction that hits 8% more often than Guard but 8% less often than Marines wouldn't be particularly novel or interesting, for example. And increasing granularity in the shallow mechanics we have without addressing some of the glaring deficiencies is moving in the wrong direction- why, exactly, do we need finer increments of to-hit when right now it's just as easy to hit a Titan three feet from you as it is to hit a Grot at your maximum range?

Less statistics porn, more depth in the core mechanics, please.

   
Made in ca
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 catbarf wrote:
 Tawnis wrote:
That's more of a gripe against the update schedule though, which yeah, wouldn't change based on changing dice. However, when you want to nerf a unit, going from BS 3+ to 4+ is a huge nerf, but going from 6+ to 7+ is a more deft touch. That's the kind of balancing I meant.


Greater granularity makes balancing easier but it adds little in terms of design space or depth. Making a new faction that hits 8% more often than Guard but 8% less often than Marines wouldn't be particularly novel or interesting, for example. And increasing granularity in the shallow mechanics we have without addressing some of the glaring deficiencies is moving in the wrong direction- why, exactly, do we need finer increments of to-hit when right now it's just as easy to hit a Titan three feet from you as it is to hit a Grot at your maximum range?

Less statistics porn, more depth in the core mechanics, please.


True, I wasn't saying that could fix everything... or even really anything on its own, just that it would be a good tool to have. I'd love to see lots more things like distance matters, environmental effects, night fighting (but better designed), ect. I want to feel like I'm in this crazy far flung future, not playing generic army vs generic army in generic city fighting over the magical mcguffin. I know it's not that bad, but sometimes (especially in marine heavy fields of play) it get close.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 22:14:12


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Denison, Iowa

I would love to see Kroot Mercs, Squats, The Rak'Golor. As Gaunt's Ghosts have rules now, I'd also like to see the return of rules for the Last Chancers (Dirty Dozen style with an army of 12 independent characters and a Chimera). Also, a vote for survivors of the Thunder Warriors.


If we go the "gimmick" route, armies that can build, move, change or generate terrain in-game would be unique.

Units that have mediocre base stats, but can mimic nearby enemies stats would also be unique, and would be a different animal not only for every enemy army, but for every enemy unit.

I'd also be open to some kind of "master tactician" army commander rule. Something like, before the battle begins, you may sacrifice up to 5 command points. For every command point you sacrifice, your opponent also loses one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 22:31:06


 
   
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There’s the concept or “rage meters” and such with some video games, where a character does a certain action to raise the meter, and when it’s full they transform their play style.

I’m wondering if something like this can be done for a whole faction. I wouldn’t want to make it too tracking heavy though.

I’m really unsure how to do it TBH. I was thinking maybe a faction based off of small weak squads (think gants or guardsmen). Every time a unit dies, some progress towards a different army wide bonus is made.

Like, let’s say they start out with a shooting bonus like maybe expert crafters or something. Once they lose enough units they become enraged and get a fighting bonus like blood angels (while losing the shooting bonus)

I wouldn’t base it off of something the enemy could too easily prevent though. I did like the idea of throwing waves of chaff at the enemy and becoming “stronger” for it. Maybe only dying in combat raises the counter?

Then once you kill a certain amount of units in combat the bonus goes back to shooting?

IKD it’s just an idea—probably one of the harder to balance properly.
   
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New faction?

A true "robot" faction like the Autonoms from Age of Wonders: Planetfall would be great.

I am not keen on any "uplifted" animal faction running around on two legs. Doesn't matter if they have scales or fur. So no lizards and no skaven.
   
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Denison, Iowa

 Strg Alt wrote:
New faction?

A true "robot" faction like the Autonoms from Age of Wonders: Planetfall would be great.

I am not keen on any "uplifted" animal faction running around on two legs. Doesn't matter if they have scales or fur. So no lizards and no skaven.


IDK, remnants of the Old Ones (space Slann) might work. Super technology that appears to be magic to even the Eldar.
   
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Grovelin' Grot




Quasistellar wrote:
There’s the concept or “rage meters” and such with some video games, where a character does a certain action to raise the meter, and when it’s full they transform their play style.

I’m wondering if something like this can be done for a whole faction. I wouldn’t want to make it too tracking heavy though.

I’m really unsure how to do it TBH. I was thinking maybe a faction based off of small weak squads (think gants or guardsmen). Every time a unit dies, some progress towards a different army wide bonus is made.

Like, let’s say they start out with a shooting bonus like maybe expert crafters or something. Once they lose enough units they become enraged and get a fighting bonus like blood angels (while losing the shooting bonus)

I wouldn’t base it off of something the enemy could too easily prevent though. I did like the idea of throwing waves of chaff at the enemy and becoming “stronger” for it. Maybe only dying in combat raises the counter?

Then once you kill a certain amount of units in combat the bonus goes back to shooting?

IKD it’s just an idea—probably one of the harder to balance properly.

Isn't that basically how Khorne works in AoS? Or worked at one point, don't know if they've changed it.
   
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I don't think this game needs any new factions whatsoever, it already has bloat as it is. They still need to redo the bulk of the craftworld eldar range in plastic before even giving another xenos faction a thought.

 
   
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PenitentJake wrote:
So one of the places I think there's a lot of design space, and specifically for Hrud, is stat damage. I hit you and cause one damage, but that damage isn't applied to your wounds characteristic, it's applied to your strength. Or your toughness. Or your movement. Different units, or different gear could target different stats.

I think about things like the Repentia Superior's Neural Whips, which have a different effect against models of lower leadership. These are new ways to make existing stats relevant in different ways.

Or things like Curses, which would assign penalties and debuffs; they already do this in Crusade- you can pay RP to deal specific persistent wounds which can only be removed when the injured unit performs a specific action.


I'm personally not a fan of this kind of ability to be spread through an army. It's one thing if you have only a single type of debuff, or only a single model that can apply debuffs, but suddenly if it's an army wide thing the bookkeeping is going to be a chore.

Suddenly every unit will need a token next to them for every stat, and you'll need to constantly be telling your opponent which token means what since everyone will use different tokens, and you'll get TFG who will purposely try to be confusing. Every action in the entire game will require checking tokens and recalculating a unit's stats and explaining to your opponent why you're suddenly wounding on 2's instead of 3's. As powers wear off you'll need to make sure you're removing all the relevant tokens, then putting new tokens on different units, and when a model dies remembering which tokens it had placed on which units..... you get my point?

In large games less bookkeeping is important, or it'll quickly make games drag on and annoy opponents that haven't memorized your codex.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





GW have reduced their design space so now the game is pretty much built around Toughness, Wounds and Armour Save.

There was a time when there strongly delineated methods of playing the game, rather than just trying to brute strength kill/resist being killed.

Anything beyond this really seems to get shot down by the community - basically if it doesn't play the way space marines play it's not normal/standard/desirable...


   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






 cuda1179 wrote:
If we go the "gimmick" route, armies that can build, move, change or generate terrain in-game would be unique.

I was about to say the same, but Chaos can generate terrain, Tau terrain can move itself, some Necron terrain can be moved by Crypteks.
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

We haven't seen an entirely flying army, though Tau have been close with their jump-pack suits. That's a design space that hasn't been approached, and it would take some interesting design chops to properly balance a force whose units never touch the ground.

It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Harlequins might as well be an all flying army with their flip belts.
   
 
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